I want to stop buying Flasks and Pots

[Deleted]

My suggestion would be pick up alchemy and do the quests to unlock flask recipes. BAM, you're suddenly spending half as much on flasks, without doing much. Take enchanting as a second profession and just de all of the trash epics you pickup, sell the mats/try crafting if you can be arsed. This should more or less keep you balanced without having to do anything new.

As an option, buy a token, that will give you large safety net.

[Leetbeartank]

No its not at all.

Lets assume the expansion is 12 months away, 52 weeks. I'm going to quote my raid schedule as its below avg. Two nights a week, at three hours each night.

On my server

I'm also going to throw in repair bills because that is part of your raid allowance,

Flask = 550g ish x 3 = 1650 per night x 2 3300 per week. (3 = the 3 hour raid time)
Prolonged power (lets say a stack of 20 per night) = 605g per stack x 2 = 1210 a week
Buff food (20 again) = 700g per stack x 2 = 1400g.
Repair = 400g avg x 2 800g. This is taking into account activity done before and possibly after your raid. Frankly since its from the same gold pool it doesnt matter if its during a raid time or from grinding world quests.



So to simplify - per week -

Flask: 3300
Potion: 1210
Buff Food: 1400
Repair: 800g

Flask: 3300 x 48 = 158400
Potion: 1210 x 48 = 58080
Food: 1400 x 48 = 67200
Repair: 800 x 48 = 38400

I've done by 48 weeks to give leave way for holidays, sickness, not wanting to raid and unforeseen circumstances. I think 4 weeks is generous.

Grand total: 322080g.

That's currently 80k more than the token.

Now I appreciate you have things like world quests, gear crafting and selling, vendoring trash to make extra on the side. But you also need to take into account random purchases, extra buys (Personally I run with 60+ prolonged power a night as an example), ENCHANTS and GEMS, borrowing money to friends, depositing into the guild bank etc

Also keep in mind my maths is based on two nights, not the avg of three.

And taking the above out of the equation, you'd be surprised how quickly you run out of gold just buying raid stuff. I have one character on a server I use as a back up raider, recently he's been used a lot. He had 100k from a left over token, over 6 weeks I've spent the better part of 70k as I just don't have the time to log in and do random bits and bobs.

1 wow token isn't enough to subsidise 1 years worth of raid content. You could argue it might be 9 months, but I'd wager closer to 10/11, I've just rounded off to 12 to be on the safe side. Oh also I rounded off each figure low. For example flasks are around 567g just 550 makes it easier.

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I'm always bordering on 20-80k. Same during WoD. I simply don't have the time to do it. Levelling isn't an issue, I casually get to 110 in a few days from invasions, I can do it in less than 48 hours questing. But doing the order hall stuff, getting the resources in etc is just time consuming

Everyone I know who made millions in WoD and make a fair amount in Legion from mission say "It's dead easy!" It's easy but time consuming. All my friends in WoD had 12 level 3 garrisons with all the gold earner buldings. They'd log on and say "it only takes 20 minutes to do it!" and they'd spend hours hoping to each one and sorting them out. I have hours to waste on a Thursday and Sunday and that's when we raid. During the day I work or do work around the house.

Companion app bro. Ezpz

[wrathblade]

get a friend with alchemy and rank 3 flask recipies.
use bloods to buy mats.
do WQ's to get more bloods. and maybe get alchemy yourself for the 2hour flask duration

[Lazuli]

Proffs in Legion are ridiculously easy, you don't even need to level alchemy my dude. Just do a few of the intro quests and you'll be making flasks in no time, the other thing is herbalism. You don't need to level that either, simply learn it and go gather what you need in broken isles and do the quests as they pop up so you gather more.

If you have even 1 alt that can learn legion tailoring you can craft 24 slot bags literally the moment you learn the proffession (recipe is on vendor there) which makes all the useless cloth you're gathering off humanoids useful.

I'm not sure how you could have gold problems in Legion unless you trade gold for your sub but it's worth doing alts for the order halls. I'm not sure how much I make between 8 110s but I am assuming it is over 20k a day just from the gold missions.

[cuafpr]

buy a token for and AH that.. more than enough gold for a few months of raiding.

[clevin]

3 flasks a night for raiding = 1800g
Lets say an average of 4 flasks a day for people that like to push +'s = 2400g

Pots (the good ones) 27g per pot. Let's say 25 (on the low side) pulls for mythic raiding progression = 675g

It's all just far too expensive. The order hall missions (with 1 char) don't keep your gold steady let alone make you money.

I'm using his figures. Even using yours you can cover most or all of that cost by doing OH gold missions if you're a 2x/week raider. Now, yeah, if you raid 4 days a week, that likely will not work but if you're that serious it's really hard for me to hear "I'm all about high end, cutting edge progression..." but then hear "and I don't want to do much of anything outside of raids." For most of WoW, high end raiding meant you need to do stuff outside of raid to be optimal and I just can't muster sympathy for people who say they're serious about raiding, decide they need to flask/pot/food up for mythic, then complain about the costs when you can defray the costs so easily.

Want to reduce the flask cost? Level Alchemy and get 2x the duration. Even at 3 hours per raid night that's 2 vs 3 flasks, boom, saved 600g per night. I'm not even counting procs. Look at the cost of mats vs flasks and if flasks are a lot higher on your server, buy the mats and ask an alchemist in the raid to make flasks for you if you can't level it yourself. Same for pots.

Gold just isn't that hard to make. Read rotted's reply to me and you'll see they give stuff away and frankly don't seem to want to do things outside of the raid that will make them gold. That's fine but then don't complain here about how you can't make gold.

[Cracked]

3 flasks a night for raiding = 1800g
Lets say an average of 4 flasks a day for people that like to push +'s = 2400g

Pots (the good ones) 27g per pot. Let's say 25 (on the low side) pulls for mythic raiding progression = 675g

It's all just far too expensive. The order hall missions (with 1 char) don't keep your gold steady let alone make you money.

I think it's more that you don't send the missions out. Usually you get 1 gold mission per day, sometimes 2, rarely 0, 200% it gives you about 2.7-3.7k gold, every day, for logging in or turning on the phone app. If you can do it on alts too, you are already making profit, braking even with 1 char.

[Deleted]

I have difficulties believing that. According to Economics 101, if that was true, then no one would make flasks because it would be less profitable than just selling the mats, which in turn would raise the price of flasks because people would need flasks, so the demand would outgrow the supply.

This has always been the case later in the expansion (in HUGE servers like silvermoon). Flasks etc are always cheaper than mats. You fail to remember rank 3 crafting can proc multiple flasks.

[Tiberria]

This has always been the case later in the expansion (in HUGE servers like silvermoon). Flasks etc are always cheaper than mats. You fail to remember rank 3 crafting can proc multiple flasks.

Yup, the pricing on flasks inevitably ends up having the rank 3 proc rate built into it. Basically, buying flasks off the AH will be significantly cheaper than buying the mats unless you are lucky enough to get good procs from the alchemist making them.

Not only that, but you have to make potentially 100s to 1000s of each flask to proc the rank 3 skill, and people doing that to get involved in the alchemy market are going to have to sell all of those excess flasks at a loss, inflating the overall supply over and above what people would craft just for the purpose of selling them.

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I hope we don't get a repeat of old war consumable prices at the start of next xpac

That type of thing always happens at the start of a new expansion, and always will, because the demand will be higher than the supply, most people are playing the new content and don't want to spend time farming mats, etc. It's why anyone with a brain ensures they go into a new expansion with a healthy stockpile of gold, knowing that you will operate at a loss early on but eventually make it all back and then some later on.

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3 flasks a night for raiding = 1800g
Lets say an average of 4 flasks a day for people that like to push +'s = 2400g

Pots (the good ones) 27g per pot. Let's say 25 (on the low side) pulls for mythic raiding progression = 675g

It's all just far too expensive. The order hall missions (with 1 char) don't keep your gold steady let alone make you money.

I mean, there's your problem right there. In your example, you are pricing things around someone that does 7 hours a day (at least on raid nights) pushing competitive content that requires consumables. The reality is, if you want to do that much competitive content, you need to spend more time on top of that playing enough/doing enough activities to fund it. Someone that only needs consumables 12 hours a week is going to need to play significantly less outside of raid than someone who wants to do like 40+ hours a week.

To sustain it, you need to either increase your total play time, or switch some of the time you spend doing M+ into time doing activities that earn gold (clearing some WQ, etc.) You can't expect to be able to just log in and do nothing but nonstop M+ keys, etc then log out without doing any maintenance work. It's just not what an MMO is.

Alternately, buying tokens is legitimately a reasonable way to deal with the situation if you want to bypass some of the gold/maintenance work required for raiding. A token plus your passive order hall stuff and close to nothing else should easily cover everything you need for like 2 months. Sure, it increases your monthly fee from $15 to $25, but you have to figure out how much you value your time and your dislike for having to do anything to maintain gold vs how much you value saving that $10.

[Deleted]

Honestly if you raid on a character in Legion and you don't have alchemy plus enchanting, you're doing it suboptimally. The only two professions left in the game with real benefits (case could be made for engineering, but meh).

engineering>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>enchanting=alchemy>other profs

[schwarzkopf]

What would you recommend I do to get into a position where I can make my own flasks and pots for raiding and mythic+?

You do realise that making your own flasks and using them costs the same amount of gold as buying them and using them.

The moral of the story is - you make gold using what ever method you are best at doing, then buy the stuff you need with that gold.

Anything else is just costing you more time and gold.

[Deleted]

I have difficulties believing that. According to Economics 101, if that was true, then no one would make flasks because it would be less profitable than just selling the mats, which in turn would raise the price of flasks because people would need flasks, so the demand would outgrow the supply.

Most people in WoW are not that smart when using AH. Thats why such a big % of the wow-population still are "poor".
Selling below mat-value, undercutting way to much etc. Simply dont understand the market.

Also, since MoP/WoD/WoD 2.0 with all the "free" crafting mats from different sources. People don't always understand that even if they personally didn't pay gold for them, they still have a value on the market.

[stevan021]

Then you would defeat the entire purpose of playing an MMO, which is player progression. If you make it so gear doesn't matter, items don't matter, gold doesn't matter, etc., you'd be eliminating the primary incentive and progression path that people have for playing the game. They've also really dumbed most of this stuff down to the point that it's trivial to anyone who isn't totally focused on instant gratification anyway. If you want that, play something different.

Well maybe the game wouldn't still be an MMORPG, but it would be a MORPG. You would still be roleplaying a role of a fighter for good in an atmospheric raid, and it would stil be a multiplayer online game. These types of games are usually associated with progression, but it's not reaquired. Hence the optional arcade mode.

You said gear is important in WoW, but I disagree. Items give like 0.2% to 2% upgrade, and if you raid mythic semi-serious after a few months of farm everyone has the same shit. All that differentiates is progress.

[Pull My Finger]

I hate flasks and pots. Always have. The whole idea how it works sucks and is a bottomless pit of constant futile farming. Same goes for food.

[Deleted]

I'd highly recommend getting Alchemy, Herbalism, Cooking and Fishing on your main character. You could get all but Alchemy on an alt, but I prefer having them on my main because it means less logging back and forth to make things.

Alchemy and Cooking will put you in control of your character buffs, and not at the mercy of the Auction House. You get the mats, by whatever means you like, and craft what you need, when you need it. Alchemy should definitely be on your main character because it doubles the duration of any Flask buff you can craft. Most importantly: this includes Spirit Flasks from Cauldrons.

Herbalism and Fishing are sort of optional (someone else recommended Enchanting as your 2nd Primary Profession, which is another good option). At some point whatever food buff your character wants is going to need fish, and your Flasks and Potions will always need Herbs. This late into the expansion you could rely on Blood of Sargeras, but next expansion it's definitely worth having a character with Herbalism so that, again, you don't need to pay AH prices.

The skill in these professions doesn't matter unless you want to make Cauldrons for your raid (800 Alchemy) so you can do the Alchemy quest chain and be pretty much ready to craft Flasks. For Cooking you're at the mercy of Nomi no matter what but you can get a few of the recipes from quests if you check out wowhead.

Thank you for your reply. I have started it and am working my way through the quest chain right now. I was also already a herbalist. I think I built up so many walls because I've always perceived professions to be hard to get into but I'm learning that's really not that case. Already 700 skill just by making a bunch of easy potions. Also finding it rather fun now that I have more reason to bother picking up herbs.

[Powerogue]

Get a guild and mooch off their cauldrons.

[Sylvaeres]

Honestly if you raid on a character in Legion and you don't have alchemy plus enchanting, you're doing it suboptimally. The only two professions left in the game with real benefits (case could be made for engineering, but meh).

I mean, that's just an absolutely silly thing to say. I've made more with tailoring this expansion than you probably have with enchanting, thus allowing me more benefits. Your logic is faulty, and you're making a statement as if it's fact instead of an opinion.

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On some of my realms, making Flasks and selling them is a gold loss, so it's better to farm herbs > Sell them > buy flasks/potions.
Level and alchemist for Potions of Prolonged power though, it will save you a ton of gold or even make you gold.

This is also terribly false. For an individual pot, maybe, but you're discounting the idea of procs, which changes the value of a pot from 1 to roughly 1.4

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No offense, but how are you not loaded with gold? Wod and legion absolutely wrecked the need for gold. Even on one character, missions and the bare minimum world quests give me more gold than I would ever need. Level a few more characters to 110 (it's super easy now with heirlooms and invasions) and invest a small amount of time into them and they'll be making gold for you with minimal effort.

Because not every person worries about gold. I know players that have 1-2m that have played since Vanilla. I myself have played since TBC, and I have made more gold than 99% of the players I know, and you could probably combine a large portion of them and I'd still eclipse them. Just because I'm capable of doing so, doesn't mean others players know how to do it

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I've never been one for professions, alts or making gold. I'm not loaded from WoD.

Also that's a massive exageration. One characters order hall missions and wq's give you more gold than you could ever need? You're game must be bugged then because the 2k gold that I regularly get isn't enough to sustain 1 flask costing 570g and pots that cost 27g per. I use a lot of flasks and pots. Not to mention food, repairs, etc.

See, that's your problem. You're looking at it as one quest, instead of hundreds of quests accumulated over the course of time

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you do realize that a proc can give you up to 10x flasks right? so mats to craft 1 isn't always one, its at WORST (on avarage) 2 pots per pack of materials for a single craft

it's 1.4. That is the average

[Dastreus]

Then don't.
/10

[Sylvaeres]

Oh shoot, I'll bite

"Depending how much you play". Personally, I play on raid times and that's about it. The only WQs I make time for are Argus on the reset.

Order hall mission vary but sure lets roll with 1k daily. Now again, TIME. Going back to exactly what I said, some people don't have the time to level a character and level a order hall multiple times. Not forgetting order hall resource grinding takes time as well. Sure maybe 20 / 30 minutes, but that mounts up with multiple characters.

For the record right now theres around 3.2k up globally for WQs. That's everything from % WQ to going into mythics. I'd say that's an easy hour to do them all. So lets say 7 hours total weekly, sure that gives you approx 15k shall we say? some will overlap some will expire some you wont do.

My cloth, my whites, my gear gets de'ed and thrown into the guild bank. Two friends and myself supplement everyones flasks, buff food and potions as best we can. And no, we don't take a cut from the guild bank for doing it. So that's that one out of the window.

I'm not sure what you're trying to get at here besides trolling to be honest. I made my original post quite clear it's different for everyone depending on a array of different factors and I also said I'm using my point of view to bring up the figures. My response was to someone who said you could supplement a ~12 months on a single wow token alone. Not a wow token and hours of farming. So feel free to keep replying saying 'excuses', you're perfectly entitled to be wrong and try to justify it.

Ok so, let me tear this apart for a second. A) at 950, you're not getting 1k. it's actually around 2700g give or take. B) order hall resources, if you did your research and didn't just spout whatever bullshit came to mind, are more than easy enough to maintain just from Blood of Sargeras missions. C) you get, on average, 2 gold missions per day. so that's 5400g on average a day. That's 37800 g per week. That's 150k a month. From one toon. Don't act like a jerk when you're so clearly misinformed.

[Teri]

Option 1:
Use the Repurposed Fel Focuser as "free" mini-flask. 1-time cost of 7500 nethershard.

500 mainstat, 750 stamina.

Ok, it has a 15 min cooldown (only bad if you die), but still is better then nothing at all. On like non-progression it saves you money.

Option 2:
Alchemy doubles your flasks duration, and herbalism gets you mass amounts of Blood of Sargeras to buy even more herbs.

Then there's blood of Sargeras order hall missions (or gold misisons to buy herbs directly).

Option 3:
Guild provides Cauldrons/Feasts as a combined effort of people contributing gold/materials to guildbanks.