Second Wind is not bad at all!

[Deleted]

I have no idea why almost no Arms Warrior takes this great Talent ... At least in pve it is a life saver: I don't even need a healer any more
Second Wind + Victory Rush + Soul of the Slaughter (procs is not bad with FoB Talent) = unkillable machine. And they say Arms has no healing lol. Can't think of any other dps spec with such a great passive self healing. Not bad even for solo play.

[iamthedevil]

Second wind is great for questing. I love never having to eat.

[AwkwardSquirtle]

Usually "bad" talents aren't that bad, the other options are just better.

[Socialhealer]

afflction warlock says hi, sitting at 250k-300k hps in mythic raids, only warriors with more survival are called protection.

[Queen of Hamsters]

When people say "This talent is rubbish and should NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER be taken at any point in time because I said so!!!!", take it with a pinch of salt.

My warriors all use Second Wind and are among the first (Affliction warlock dominates tho) of my alts to solo new areas such as Argus.

[Deleted]

Usually "bad" talents aren't that bad, the other options are just better.

Which other options? Defensive stance? No, thx. Why would i trade 10% dmg for 20% (20% is nothing in pve) better survivability, if i can have both with Second Wind: no dps loss + great survivabiltiy. Bounding Stride? Maybe it has some uses in PvP and that's it.

afflction warlock says hi, sitting at 250k-300k hps in mythic raids, only warriors with more survival are called protection.

Hi, Affliction! I think that's because 90% + Warriors play without Second Wind. But i agree, Affliction is probably the only one who can outheal Arms with Second Wind.

[ymirsson]

Which other options? Defensive stance? No, thx. Why would i trade 10% dmg for 20% (20% is nothing in pve) better survivability, if i can have both with Second Wind: no dps loss + great survivabiltiy. Bounding Stride? Maybe it has some uses in PvP and that's it..

Do you raid? Because in anything beyond LFR, Second Wind actually IS the worst option.

[Roshar]

Do you raid? Because in anything beyond LFR, Second Wind actually IS the worst option.

But dem healing meters though! Forget the fact that D-Stance can help with burst damage, or that Bounding Stride helps a lot with mobility so you can stick to mobs faster, it's all about healing meters! That's the reason we rolled dps warriors, to give healers a run for their money on overhealing.

[Deleted]

Which other options? Defensive stance? No, thx. Why would i trade 10% dmg for 20% (20% is nothing in pve) better survivability, if i can have both with Second Wind: no dps loss + great survivabiltiy. Bounding Stride? Maybe it has some uses in PvP and that's it.

now go do Black Rook Hold 15+ and tell me how this "great survivability" saves you on the first and last boss

And that's just a one example...

Second wind is good for leveling / solo questing but is garbage for pvp/raiding/m+

[Atherions]

if damage taken during an encounter happens infrequent enough, sure Second wind is a great talent, but most encounters you are going to be taking some kinda unavoidable damage pretty regularly. Defensive stance always works and can prevent one-shot mechanics, this makes it a much better talent overall. For soloing elites Second wind is the better talent since you can hamstring the elite and just kite it around while you heal to full.

[Deleted]

As others said for outdoor content it sure is the best out of 3. I even use it for random bgs but for rated content defense stance is way better for when the enemy tries to burst you. For raids leap is always the default. Die By The Sword is a good survivability tool and you can always use the extra mobility. You really dont second wind since healers should be able to top you before it triggers anyway. For m+ it depends on the key but defensive stance is a life savior for high keys like Brh and Hyrja. I dont understand why you say that 20% is nothing in pve. Probably you don't do end game content which isnt a bad thonh.

Overall unless it's for outdoor content the other 2 chooses are way better on any situation

[Deleted]

Do you raid? Because in anything beyond LFR, Second Wind actually IS the worst option.

May i ask why do you think so? So you rather do 10% less dmg with Defensive Stance? How does this help your raid/party dps? You are a dps not a tank, if i wanna tank i would go with Protection. I feel like a cheater if i play with Defensive Stance. Except if you pop it up just for a few seconds to avoid heavy damage and then cancel it, but even then i am not sure if is it worth taking it, especially if you are a lazy person as i am . Bounding Strike seems a little bit better option but very situational. Sometimes there's no need for Heroic Leap at all (at least not every 30 seconds) and that talent is wasted, while Second Wind works 70% of the time with exception of few bosses.
Oh and that annoying defensive Stance visual! no thx.

I dont understand why you say that 20% is nothing in pve

Well, if we wouldn't loose 10% dmg (20% in PvP!) i would take that 20%, sure

[Justpassing]

You can't heal oneshots.

[Deleted]

You can't heal oneshots.

That's why you need to avoid them.

[Jastall]

That's why you need to avoid them.

Yeah, I don't think you understand. M+ in particular is filled with close to unavoidable one-shot, or at least very high party damage mechanics at higher keys. Healing a bit of it is far less useful than taking less damage to mitigate it in the first place, and in raids the mobility offered by Bounding Stride can be an immense asset too.

For open world content, sure it's a good option. But so is everything else really. Most guides focus on raiding and M+ because these are the endgame activities that provide the most challenge and around which you optimize your builds.

Second Wind is like Bloodthirst healing for Fury, most of it is really inconsequential at the end of the day and pads overhealing meters more than anything.

[Deleted]

Yeah, I don't think you understand. M+ in particular is filled with close to unavoidable one-shot, or at least very high party damage mechanics at higher keys.

Correct me if i am wrong, i don't play mythic + myself, but i guess you have Defensive Stance active all the time during boss fight?

[Jester Joe]

Correct me if i am wrong, i don't play mythic + myself, but i guess you have Defensive Stance active all the time during boss fight?

No, you'd only pop it for mechanics that would one shot you otherwise.

You know Black Rook Hold, the last boss? The first shadow bolt valley he does before you get the big buff will one shot the entire group at higher key levels. Hence, you need defensives.

[ymirsson]

while Second Wind works 70% of the time with exception of few bosses.

What? 1. You get a lot of situational damage negating SW's activation and 2. its a steady small heal, nothing that protects you against the evil things raid bosses do.
In solo content it sure may be useful, but i am talking specifically about raid encounters. There, a 20% reduction does a lot more for you and your healers then an unreliable 6% heal whis is stopped by actually taking damage.

And Bounding Stride is mobility. Mobility is always good. It avoids damage, lessens the impact of mechanics on your DPS, shortens your down time, it's just always good unless you have a boss where you can mindlessly tunnelvision. But in that case, defensive talents are meaningless anyway.

[Jastall]

Correct me if i am wrong, i don't play mythic + myself, but i guess you have Defensive Stance active all the time during boss fight?

No, as someone said, you pop it when required, if you know a big burst of party/raidwide damage will happen, then switch back to normal.

In the vast majority cases, a trickle of damage (the thing SW counters) is not an issue for the healers. They can deal with it. What is an issue is a big burst of damage which brings everyone low, forces them into damage control mode where one misstep means someone dies, and makes them blow through both mana and cooldowns. As a DPS, the counter to that is abilities like Defensive Stance. So if you want to help your healers, don't worry about meters and use whatever damage reduction you can.

In addition, if Bounding Stride allows you to avoid standing in the fire for even one second, or get to that Imp you absolutely need to interrupt on Portal Keeper or whatnot, it's already done far more to help you survive than all of Second Wind's healing combined.