[Serious Question] Are you open to the idea of cryptocurrency?

[Deleted]

The technology will be in the future, whether some like it or not. Will current coins persist in future? Hard to guess. I see them as an investment tool.

The Block Chain technology is here to stay.

The current cryptocurrencies are - like any currency - conventions. They just aren't backed up by governments or any tangible value behind them. I wouldn't touch them with a 10 foot pole, but there is always the possibility that a few of them survive long term. In the meantime, more people will lose money with them, and fewer will make money.

On a global perspective, for the better part of a decade the Fed and the Central Banks of Japan, EU and UK have been printing money like crazy. This money has to go somewhere. Shares, house prices, art prices all see all time highs. Cryptocurrencies are to a large degree a bizarre valve for the same pressure.

[Gangresnake]

Investment is a wrong term. You are not investing on anything, just trading a some "data" that can't be counterfeited (hence it being called a currency). If you bought into it years ago or now in hopes to make money, you're gambling. That and the U.S. has no way of really monitoring anyone's exchanges. The most information they will get is wallet addresses, which always changes.

Let's be real, right now the two assets of Crypto are
-Lack of ID and traceability, pretty cool for a consumer, but then it open up all sort of money laundering and illegal schemes.
-Complete deregulation and freedom, once again pretty nice, but then you have a market full of securities fraud where the value can be manipulated to go high or low at the whim of a dishonest fews.

This is what really set Crypto apart from other currencies, and ironically, these two factors create catastrophic unstability and make it godawful at being an actual currency. Hence why right now Crypto is more about gambling that it is about being a currency, despite the name.

It is a new technology and people could argue that it will "mature". But the moment they apply the regulations necessary to ensure stability the whole point of Crypto go out of the window, the dirty cash stop coming in, and all you have is a currency with the same regulations as the dollars but less backing.

The blockchain is a beautiful technology, but that's not enough to make a currency.

[Deleted]

Depends on your definition of the term, really.

Cryptocurrency for me, today, is literally nothing more than hobbyists sitting down and defining to themselves that a set of very specific numbers (bitcoins, dogecoins, whatever) have inherent value. Then they try to convince other people that this is true. Some schmucks jump on it, and regardless of whether it is true or not the ball starts rolling. We now have a bubble, where people fully believing the coins to be worthless are buying in, because it's easy money due to the bubble still growing. But it's gonna burst, maybe tomorrow, and lots of people are going to lose a lot of money when it does.

What is the difference between normal currency and cryptocurrency anyway? I live in a country which is literally devoid of cash. I pay with cash twice a year, or so. People use electronic transactions for just about anything. It costs literally nothing to use a debit card in my country, the banks are cooperating on running this system at minimal costs. On the downside - Big Brother sees just about every little transaction I do. On the upside, I don't need to worry about being mugged. My wallet is literally empty, and robbers getting their hands on that debit card isn't gonna help them much.

So let's talk about that downside then. It is a concern, and my understanding of cryptocurrency it is the concern they are trying to solve. Except they aren't? Someone must eventually keep track of who has what money, otherwise I have a trillion dollars of said topical currency, and you can't prove otherwise. With physical money, having the money physically determines that question easily. In my cash-free country, my bank tracks that number. With bitcoin, everyone keeps track through public records. It's literally the opposite of getting away from Big Brother; my bank offers far better privacy than bitcoin. Connecting a person to a crypto-wallet is childs play once you make a single purchase with that wallet. Cryptocurrency is not really solving the problem of Big Brother in my opinion. As such I do not see what problem it actually solves.

It does however provide a ton of downsides. At least banks are required by law to have all kinds of safety guards in place, ensuring that they don't just take my money. Bitcoin sites? Not so much. Remember the incident where one of the sites just disappeared overnight, taking all the money? These sites should have the same safety guards in place, protecting consumers. They obviously do not. Growing pains, maybe. But at the end of the day, the problem resides in what makes a currency. If you impose strict draconian paperwork rules to regulate the bitcoin industry - where does the limit go? Would me eventually saying "I owe you one" in a webforum have to be filed on my tax report? Would said forum have to be registered as a bank?

Bitcoin claims to be a currency. As long as people agree, and accept it as money, that is then by definition true. What happens when it bursts? When nobody wants bitcoins anymore. My national currency has intrinsic value, because no matter what happens with the economy, I must still pay taxes using my national currency. It has that value, regardless of what happens. My country's government is by existing, guaranteeing my national money actually having a use down the line. If everyone sells all my national currency in favour of the sexier and far superior Dannercoin tomorrow, my country's currency is still going to be in demand at the end of the year - because you need that currency to pay your taxes. Bitcoin has no such authority. There is no low point where Bitcoin can fall.

Well, zero I guess. And I believe that will happen.
Maybe tomorrow. Maybe later.
How much do you really like gambling?

You are basicly describing any monetary system here. But somehow this one is doomed to fail?

Also it's better to compare btc to say a gold bar at this time.

- - - Updated - - -

Businesses have assets and produce something of value. Gold, silver, or barrels of oil are all tangible things used in society.

National currencies have regulations that make them stable and accessible to most of the population at least in 1st world countries.

Crypto has none of those things.

Define value..

[belfpala]

No no, you absolutely think right. You just don't seem to realize that this is exactly how every currency works.

I do realize. I think I was 14 when I pointed out that the stock market is just a study in human psychology. Edit to add: When you hear things like "Consumer Confidence" being an important factor, you know it's pseudo science.

Also, I do know the history of my primary currency (US Dollar), and how it was a shitshow of many currencies between US States, and even between US cities. The world today is in much the same state, but across nations. Europe set a good example with the Euro, which is also made up of course. Expanding on that, I am not opposed to making up something like Bitcoin to consolidate again. Global currency, etc.

[Bigbazz]

I'm on daily speaking terms with guys who are making a lot of money from Crypto, mainly due to having invested in the right coins at the right time (such as Bitcoin, VeChain), one of them currently has a wallet over $1mil and believes by the end of the year he could be at $30-60mil though there is a limit of about $2.5mil a year that they can pull out of the system.

It's about having inside information, investing and pulling out is co-ordinated and those in the know will make money on the back of others losing it. Most of them are betting on long term investment on a particular coin, though a few of them have already made 10x their investment in the space of months and overall are making more crypto gains than they can actually pull out of the system each week.

Am I open to the idea? When you look at the technologies behind some of the coins and the secondary uses then it's easy to see how it can be considered a good investment, but a lot of risk is involved and there will be winners and losers. Before you make a decision either way you should research, research the currencies and the history behind them, the people involved and the plans for the future.

That said, I haven't put much money into it, I've always struggled with putting my money into gambling.

[derpkitteh]

no.

it's bad, and should be regulated against. it should be made illegal, and anyone found dealing in it should be given horrible fines.

[Bigbazz]

no.

it's bad, and should be regulated against. it should be made illegal, and anyone found dealing in it should be given horrible fines.

Ignorance = Fear = Hate response in other words?

[derpkitteh]

Ignorance = Fear = Hate response in other words?

it's dangerous.

there should never be a complete loss of physical money, ever. the growing of this shit leads to that.

[stomination]

Show me people who bought the real world things with their bitcoins.

I bought money with it. And a thing or two on newegg.com

[Thelxi]

No I am not open to it. I refuse to even think about it.

[Daedius]

Taking by example of bitcoin, from worthless to over €15k per coin within a year... absolutely not.

It's a bubble waiting to burst with just the earlier investors breaking bank while late comers get screwed.

[Bigbazz]

it's dangerous.

there should never be a complete loss of physical money, ever. the growing of this shit leads to that.

That's the way it's going, might take 20-30 or more years but it's going that direction anyway. Fiat currency is already not backed by a commodity such as gold/silver/copper. Cryptocurrencies tend to be tied to technology companies wanting to invest in use of the blockchain technology for various different functions in the future, and if you do some research on blockchain and the companies building technology around it you can see how it will shape the future in many industries.

It's not all voodoo magic and scaryness, it's just a natural evolution of digital technology.. Start buying gold as an investment if you're scared of a non commodity based currency because the $US and Euro are not any more than Bitcoin or other cryptocurrencies aren't.

Taking by example of bitcoin, from worthless to over €15k per coin within a year... absolutely not.

It's a bubble waiting to burst with just the earlier investors breaking bank while late comers get screwed.

It went from $800 ish to $14,000 ish in a year, $800 is not worthless. Also considering it hit nearly $20,000 in december you could say the bubble has already burst, Bitcoin will not be the big gainer this year and it will go up and down like usual but the likelyhood is that on average it will gain in value considerably by January 2019.

Cryptocurrencies gained massive attention and attraction (thus investment) towards the latter part of 2017 and that is only going to continue, the big spikes (like the 20k december spike for BC) won't last but with more investors and more mainstream coverage it's not going anywhere, Bitcoin may not remain the top coin forever but it will only gain value from here on.

[rda]

An interesting thing regarding cryptocurrencies: the energy spent on mining them is expected to get as high as 0.6% of all world energy spent in 2018. They could end up with a bigger share than electric cars.

[NomCarver]

Since they are not regulated, it is good for buying things illegally. However, most people just want to trade them for real money later. Idk how that can be sustained tbh.

[Danner]

You are basicly describing any monetary system here. But somehow this one is doomed to fail?

I'm explaining the difference between a monetary system where the currency have an inherent value backing it
- Gold because physical world rarity
- Cups of rice, because I can eat it
- My national currency because I must pay my taxes in it

...And a monetary system where the currency does not have an intrinsic value on its own
- Case in point, Bitcoin.

A bitcoin as-is has no intrinsic value to it. It's not a rare commodity because anyone can make a McDonaldCoin to compete with it. It's not useful for something like the cup of rice. And there is no authority requiring that currency as payment down the road, mandating a minimal demand. Right now, the value of bitcoin is the promise that the ballon will keep on growing. That is what makes people invest in it. One day that balloon will pop. And then it is worth nothing.

Earlier in the thread, someone posted the KodakCoin. That's something that has a value to it; it's worth a picture on the Kodak picture exchange. As long as Kodak keeps that service running, that value will not be 0. Which puts Kodakcoin in the first category. However, that entire economy relies on the promise that Kodak won't shut that service down. Do you trust Kodak enough to let them manage your money? You really shouldn't. They are working under none of the regulations a bank does.

All currency is risky business. My country could like zimbabwe or venezuela go bankrupt, and that national currency money I have in the bank could be worthless overnight. It's not likely, but it's possible. That cup of rice could spoil. The gold nugget in my bottom dresser drawer could become worthless the moment that gold meteor shower strikes earth, making gold more common than iron.

But some currencies are far more risky than others. Bitcoin rate in my eyes right alongside Zimbabwean and Venezuelan dollars as worthwile investment objects.

[Delekii]

That's the way it's going, might take 20-30 or more years but it's going that direction anyway. Fiat currency is already not backed by a commodity such as gold/silver/copper. Cryptocurrencies tend to be tied to technology companies wanting to invest in use of the blockchain technology for various different functions in the future, and if you do some research on blockchain and the companies building technology around it you can see how it will shape the future in many industries.

It's not all voodoo magic and scaryness, it's just a natural evolution of digital technology.. Start buying gold as an investment if you're scared of a non commodity based currency because the $US and Euro are not any more than Bitcoin or other cryptocurrencies aren't.



It went from $800 ish to $14,000 ish in a year, $800 is not worthless. Also considering it hit nearly $20,000 in december you could say the bubble has already burst, Bitcoin will not be the big gainer this year and it will go up and down like usual but the likelyhood is that on average it will gain in value considerably by January 2019.

Cryptocurrencies gained massive attention and attraction (thus investment) towards the latter part of 2017 and that is only going to continue, the big spikes (like the 20k december spike for BC) won't last but with more investors and more mainstream coverage it's not going anywhere, Bitcoin may not remain the top coin forever but it will only gain value from here on.

It's simply not likely to be the case. There is no underlying driving value, no product or service that can make its choices and change its worth. It's literally an unchangeable, virtual nothing.

When an object (and this isn't even an object) has literally no intrinsic value whatsoever, its value is only derived from what other people want from it.

In the case of cryptocurrency, the only answer to "what can I do with this" is:
a. Spend it in the stead of money,
b. Sell it to someone else for money.

You can say the same thing is true of any stock, but stocks' value is derived not from the stock itself, but from what it represents. In the case of cryptocurrency, what it represents is, quite literally, nothing.

I don't know if its right to describe cryptocurrency as being in a bubble; by that I don't mean that it's not in a marketplace that acts as a bubble, but moreso that the entire concept of cryptocurrency essentially only functions at all when it is performing in a bubble-like marketplace. When you say the housing market is in a bubble, it means that people are spending way more than they really should be given current market circumstances, but it doesn't mean the underlying product is valueless; without a bubble to prop it up cryptocurrency is literally useless 1s and 0s on a harddrive. Cryptocurrency isn't in a bubble; it IS a bubble, and it is ONLY a bubble. Its value, in totality, is virtual and not supported by any underlying market value.

It might "prove everyone wrong" and continue to sustain its bubble, but it won't be for any good reason. It's basically a stock that survives only on the back of dumb people propping up earlier investors' already dumb decisions.

[I Push Buttons]

No, fuck cryptocurrency.

[I Push Buttons]

*sniff sniff* I can't buy some stuff because the market has made that stuff sooo expensive *sniff* it's almost like the iPhone X I can't afford *sniff* SOOO UNFAIIIIR *drums on floor* *sniff*

Pretty much.

[kail]

it's dangerous.

there should never be a complete loss of physical money, ever. the growing of this shit leads to that.

Why?

10/char

[derpkitteh]

Why?

10/char

i don't like the idea of there one day being only one way to pay for something. cards and money work just fine.

with this system, you could eventually move to the point where you are forced to either get a chip implanted or you can't access any money, then you're out of luck. then they got you by the balls, it's over.