Turalyon should have been Theoden.

[Skyduke]

Hey, Othmar Garithos was pretty much spot on to distrust the fucking elves, look with whom they allied.

[Kokolums]

Unfortunately, a large percentage of the fanbase will ONLY accept characters that are badasses. Its like they measure the badass quotient of a character in their head to determine if its a good story or not. Its nauseating and arguably WORSE than mary sues. These fans simply want WoW to end with Illidan and Saurfang fistbumping and then riding into the sunset on motorcycles while AC/DC plays in the background. All other characters are too "lame" for them.

Turalyon was refreshing.

[Rathbourne]

Ok lets not turn this into a Horde vs Alliance thread.....: /

[Aeula]

That'd have been great. Turalyon feels really out of place and weird right now. He's not very interesting at all.

He could, however, provide development for his trophy wife.

[Techno-Druid]

Disagree.

Alleria/Turalyon and Sylvanas/Nathanos are brilliantly conflicted couples for differing reasons.

Tirion was cookie cutter and cheesy. Turalyon is a hardened veteran in the same vein as Saurfang. Devout? Duh. He is a fucking paladin, what would you expect.

Tirion stood up against the beliefs of his brothers in arms, his country and his family to protect Eitrigg. Tirion risked everything for his beliefs and is probably one of the only true lawful good characters in Warcraft because of his ability to see beyond stupid conflict and rally together with all of Azeroth.

Tirion will always be the character I think of when I think of paladins.

[Deianeira]

Honestly I don't get the hate for Turalyon. Yeah he's a mediocre character and his showing in Argus was pretty lame.

However, he's still a fairly new character and can be molded in many different directions. Turalyon's personality in my mind has not fully set in yet, so it's up to the writers to make him compelling in the future.

How they do that? Well, I don't know.

I Think many dont like him cause he Went all anal on Illidan after Illidan killed Xera. And sure i can understand Turalyons initial reaction but it just shows that he is way to devout and Believes in Xera just because she was "the Light" Never questioning, but as we saw she was not beyond reproach because what she did/triedto do to Illidan was repulsive, pretty much rape if you ask me.

[alt-ithist]

the alliance, whose supreme commander attempted to murder their high prince, multiple times. who's still firmly allied to the traitors that got kicked out of quel'thalas for sparking unrest in a time of crisis and gleefully murder sin'dorei any chance they get. who still counts jaina proudmoore as a member and high ranking member after her unjust slaughter of civilians.

neither arthas or any undead count, considering arthas was a betrayer himself, and the undead were mind controlled.

I like how you ignore the fact that the people who betrayed them are now their allies aka lorderon. Both in life (variable and the lorderon people he commanded) and in death (the scourge who sweep through quel thalas was made from all the people in lorderon killed by aethas. And don’t forget orcs and trolls...

While I personally I’m in favor of killing every single remaining high elves so we can be done with all the whining about them, when you’re kicked out of you’re home simply for disagreeing with your government, that’s them being betrayed.

[Beloren]

No. The WoW community cannot agree on what is the biggest disappointment in WoW ever.

Not to mention that WoW's story isn't over yet, so "ever" would be premature.

The problem is that blizzard has faction accentuated their universe. Few people enjoy heroes in the other side and they are often marred by bias and prejudice by fans of the opposite faction.

Thalyssra was a perfect candidate for aneutral star, it's so hard for blizzard to create characters liked by everybody. They did, but ever since she went horde, alliance players now hate her. There was so much more value in that race being neutral and possibly having just some of their members in either or both factions. Same with void elves. But now Alleria has tons of hate too.

[Magnagarde]

Thalyssra was a perfect candidate for aneutral star, it's so hard for blizzard to create characters liked by everybody. They did, but ever since she went horde, alliance players now hate her. There was so much more value in that race being neutral and possibly having just some of their members in either or both factions. Same with void elves. But now Alleria has tons of hate too.

I don't think they hate her. It is more about the story and the way it makes absolutely no sense, just like the creation of void elves. Both have been introduced to justify the other, with no real purpose or meaning of their own as to why they join. Alleria remaining Alliance is something that I expected to happen, but to have a whole bunch of blood elves turn into void elves and so on is just beyond anyone's expectations.

All in all, Alleria and Turalion got murdered by the lore department.

Now we have LightGuy and ShadowLady (as if we needed another one after Sylvanas)

Pretty much. Alleria would've been so much more interesting if she hadn't turned towards the void, allowing writers to explore the more down-to-erath aspects of her character. Now it is all about silencing the whispers, using a power others fear, knowing what others don't and so on.

[Dudas]

Alleria has tons of hate too.

And it is pretty obvious. You haven't been there when the Scourge invaded and the most important period of the high elves. You don't even care how and why they became blood elves. Instead your first reaction is "OMFG SYLVA LEADS THE HORDE?". She should go in Undercity and bow and show a little gratitude to Sylvanas since she gave up her life and more for defending Quel'Thalas during that period. Try to understand everything that has happened with Lordaeron and Quel'thalas and then make your choice. The normal reaction would've been to stay neutral. Yes your husband is Alliance. But you should've been neutral. Go and learn what happened while you were gone and afterwards decide. Stick with family. Stick your kin. Stick with both but ignore the war part and don't take part in them.
All the races of Azeroth know how your sister became what she is now. But instead you're like omfg I must go to Silvermoon in the name of Anduin ( <- you don't even know who this guy is let's be serious YOU HAVE NEVER MET HIM) and you take him as your King out of nowhere ...

It's only obivous that we hate her since she was written just as another ally <3, hordies are baddies, when she should've been a conflicted champion first and afterwards make her choice.

[Rathbourne]

And it is pretty obvious. You haven't been there when the Scourge invaded and the most important period of the high elves. You don't even care how and why they became blood elves. Instead your first reaction is "OMFG SYLVA LEADS THE HORDE?". She should go in Undercity and bow and show a little gratitude to Sylvanas since she gave up her life and more for defending Quel'Thalas during that period. Try to understand everything that has happened with Lordaeron and Quel'thalas and then make your choice. The normal reaction would've been to stay neutral. Yes your husband is Alliance. But you should've been neutral. Go and learn what happened while you were gone and afterwards decide. Stick with family. Stick your kin. Stick with both but ignore the war part and don't take part in them.
All the races of Azeroth know how your sister became what she is now. But instead you're like omfg I must go to Silvermoon in the name of Anduin ( <- you don't even know who this guy is let's be serious YOU HAVE NEVER MET HIM) and you take him as your King out of nowhere ...

It's only obivous that we hate her since she was written just as another ally <3, hordies are baddies, when she should've been a conflicted champion first and afterwards make her choice.

The "Sylvy leads the Horde !! " reaction is perfectly normal.Just tell someone who hasnt heard or played anything since Wrath and you'll probably get the same response.She just had the bomb dropped on her by Vereesa.
And the part about sticking with family....she is....unfortunately Vereesa is family,Turalyon,Arathor and her nephews are family.90% of the High Elf population was wiped out by the Scourge.Most of the people she knew may already be dead,with the exception of a few like Theron,Halduron,Liadrin etc.She also has kin on the Alliance side,the few remainig high elves.Sylvanas is undead and in a very questionable state of mind.Sure her being Anduin's messenger sucks balls,but its not as bad as people make it out to be.She was going to visit Quelthalas and Anduin probably told her to pass on the message.We still dont know EXACTLY how she feels about all of this.

The hate against Alleria is rather childish.We still havnt gotten the full story yet.Then we can decide whether she is Vereesa 2.0 or not.

[Dudas]

The "Sylvy leads the Horde !! " reaction is perfectly normal.Just tell someone who hasnt heard or played anything since Wrath and you'll probably get the same response.She just had the bomb dropped on her by Vereesa.

So when the bomb is dropped you don't ask yourself how and what happened so that she is leading orcs, trolls, taurens, undeads and blood elves. Also you don't ask yourself why your dumbass Sister Vereesa doesn't have a single high elf with her? First reaction would be where are our people and our armies? Why aren't they here? What happened to us ? Is Anasterian Sunstrider (YOUR KING when you left Quel'Thalas) ok?

And the part about sticking with family....she is....unfortunately Vereesa is family,Turalyon,Arathor and her nephews are family.90% of the High Elf population was wiped out by the Scourge.Most of the people she knew may already be dead,with the exception of a few like Theron,Halduron,Liadrin etc.She also has kin on the Alliance side,the few remainig high elves.Sylvanas is undead and in a very questionable state of mind.Sure her being Anduin's messenger sucks balls,but its not as bad as people make it out to be.She was going to visit Quelthalas and Anduin probably told her to pass on the message.We still dont know EXACTLY how she feels about all of this.

The hate against Alleria is rather childish.We still havnt gotten the full story yet.Then we can decide whether she is Vereesa 2.0 or not.

She seems pretty convinced in the discussion with Lor'themar and clearly states she has picked a side. You come back to your ancestor homeland you haven't seen in a millennium literally. And instead of talking about how are you, what do you need, what happened here, praise the sun you still exist as a race, you go full retard with hur dur pl0x join allies lul. And I can assure you every single citizen of Silvermoon knows about who you are and what you have done and still see you as an important figure. Rangers would take you as their leader in an instant. Sylvanas would actually be interested in talking with you since you're the last being that could talk with her as a normal being/relationship.

Those would have been normal reactions. To visit Quel'thalas and Lordaeron with husband and son and rediscover what happened and understand both sides. After 1000 years of war, after surviving all those fucked up planets being chased like an animal, I would assume you would've learned something about diplomacy and despise every second of war.

[Rathbourne]

So when the bomb is dropped you don't ask yourself how and what happened so that she is leading orcs, trolls, taurens, undeads and blood elves. Also you don't ask yourself why your dumbass Sister Vereesa doesn't have a single high elf with her? First reaction would be where are our people and our armies? Why aren't they here? What happened to us ? Is Anasterian Sunstrider (YOUR KING when you left Quel'Thalas) ok?



She seems pretty convinced in the discussion with Lor'themar and clearly states she has picked a side. You come back to your ancestor homeland you haven't seen in a millennium literally. And instead of talking about how are you, what do you need, what happened here, praise the sun you still exist as a race, you go full retard with hur dur pl0x join allies lul. And I can assure you every single citizen of Silvermoon knows about who you are and what you have done and still see you as an important figure. Rangers would take you as their leader in an instant. Sylvanas would actually be interested in talking with you since you're the last being that could talk with her as a normal being/relationship.

Those would have been normal reactions. To visit Quel'thalas and Lordaeron with husband and son and rediscover what happened and understand both sides. After 1000 years of war, after surviving all those fucked up planets being chased like an animal, I would assume you would've learned something about diplomacy and despise every second of war.

Naah,that kind of reaction seems too perfect.Its not like she knew everything that has happened over the past 30+ years.We as players know everything but for the characters its a different story.Her window into the world was Vereesa.She probably asked her about everything that has happened and Vereesa probably gave her view on things.Her initial reaction is not everything,a lot of stuff happens off-screen,including a private conversation.
And regarding joining the Alliance,i dont think its a big deal,not to someone who has spent a thousand years fighting the Legion .Its basically a pissing contest.When Lorthemar shut her Alliance offer down she didnt seem to press the point much,like she really didnt care that much.She seems more intent on mastering the Void than being some faction puppet.The moment you really need to start hating Alleria is if she actually takes up arms against Quelthalas,like kill Bloodelves with her own hands.If that happens,the hate is 100% validated.

[Hellrime]

Also Arthas wasn't even dead at that point so it is still a corrupted human.

Arthas' actions were grey areas prior to being fully undead, Stratholme was a necessary evil, the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. If he hadn't did what he did the epidemic would have been much larger. Sure, most of what he did was questionable, but not inherently evil, more hubris. It wasn't until he was in a fight between Nerzhul for control that a lot of the evil everyone references happened. Arthas finally defeated Nerzhul, but at that point was too corrupted to come to his senses. Essentially your comment is just the pro-horde, shoddy interpretation of the events that don't actually reflect the lore.

I might add that now that Forsaken have free will they are still nuking places with the plague, so their willed actions are the same as they were under the Lich King. No pity parties for the Forsaken, sorry.

[Nefarious Tea]

What makes Turalyon interesting to me is - although keep in mind I never played WC 1 or 2 so take this with a grain of salt - that the Humans essentially idolize him. He's basically the Isildur-archetype, except without the whole being corrupted by the One Ring. Now that the Legion is done (ignoring the fact that the Legion is unlike the Scourge who NEED central control to be really dangerous) from a lore perspective, all Turalyon has going for him is that he's essentially married (?) to essentially his antithesis in the void. Which, as far as we know, he doesn't know that about Alleria. It's going to be an interesting source of conflict that I hope Blizzard explores.

But he's also been fighting the Legion on the front lines for centuries - what happens when he comes home to Stormwind and he's nothing like the few remaining veterans of the Second War remember? What happens when he turn out to just be an embittered and listless old man who doesn't live up to the hero worship of him? What happens then? How does the narrative unfold when he doesn't live up to the pedestal on which he has been placed, both figuratively and literally in the form of a colossal marble statue at the Stormwind gates?

He's going to turn out like Luke Skywalker in TLJ, and the fanbase, who has also been idolizing him for the past twenty years, is going to pitch an absolute FIT.

[Fenderxx]

Disagree, the alliance lost Varian, and though I think we will see a more mature Anduin, we need a more seasoned hero in our ranks.

[Hellrime]

I was arguing with a guy that said that Arthas' Scourge was the same as the forsaken, if you agree then you are saying that Arthas had free will aswell.

Also https://wow.gamepedia.com/Forsaken

That doesn't add up though, Arthas pre-undeath was mostly lead by hubris but he was wasn't inherently evil as most was a necessary evil. Once becoming the Lich King was when Nerzhul was mostly in control, though there was still a fight between both personalities, as seen by what appeared to be regret when killing Sylvanas. Nerzhul was mostly in control, therefore Arthas did not have free will until he won out over Nerzhul, at which point Arthas' free will aligned with that of Nerzhul's. Arthas, after donning the Helmet of Command and Frostmourne, didn't have free will, it was contested will which was seen in many instances throughout the lore until finally beating Nerzhul but it was too late and it drove him insane.

The forsaken, like the scourge, did NOT have free will either until they broke free from the Lich King. However, they went right back to doing what they would have done under the control of the Lich King. I especially like this part, "Although this freedom seemed to be a blessing at first, these former humans were soon tormented by memories of the unspeakable horrors that they had committed as mindless Scourge agents" (Wowpedia, ND). They were so terrified of their actions they decided to keep doing them, lol.