Opinion on guilds and M+

[NatePsy]

So I've been encountering a lot of guilds that will only run M+ with their little cliques (Namely Officers and the GM's) and these same people will switch to alts and do more M+ together while leaving out their raiders to go pug. Am I wrong in thinking that this sort of attitude is a bit disadvantageous to the raid as a whole by not helping their core raiders out with runs, rather than their alts? I've been in guilds that have actually put core raiders before alts so it's not like it's not a hard concept to grasp but it seems like to me some guilds just do the opposite and it's triggering.

Should these higher ups in raid guilds be trying to create a sense of teamwork or are they right to just stick to their clique and do M+ with their mains and then alts? Oh and by the way, these cliques never ask in guild chat to try and get core raiders or even potential raiders into groups to get gear.

[Daimy]

A lot of guilds have these cliques afaik and they're not exclusive to GM/Officer groups. What exactly is stopping you from forming another group within the guild though?
I suppose it's in the guilds best interest to ensure everyone gets their runs done, but if it's a raiding guild not everyone might be interested in M+.

Have you asked them about it?

[Deleted]

Have you ever asked them to join?
Did you asked the other raiders for m+ runs?

Or do you just want to join a group with experienced players who know each other and the strategies and therefore skipping your own mythic+ progress?

My guild quit raiding back in NH. We had 2 mythic+ groups, both formed back in WoD. Both were pretty successful. We didn't ask in /g, because we were full. On the other hand we were asked for weekly chests or getting item x from dungeon y. We helped, but it was always more fun to do it with the same 5 people, because runs were smoother, voice was funnier.

And no, if the guild doesn't require you to run m+, there is no reason for the people who have fun running m+ together to get you into their group. If they do, thats nice.
If they force you to do m+, then the officers should at least announce groups capable of clearing a +15 every week for every raider.

[HuxNeva]

Small guild. Even finding a consistent 5 man team is hard.
More experienced M+ players try to take those that want through a 15 each week for 'the chest'.
Often proof that the best raiders aren't necessarily the best M+ players. Larger group in Raids makes it far easier to just ignore mechanics and aim for the meter regardless of what the dps is supposed to achieve to ensure the efficient kill.

[Ealyssa]

If your tank roster is small (2-3) don't expect them to carry all the raid roster. Especially if you're triggered by alts...

And god forbid people playing with their friends !!!

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

So I've been encountering a lot of guilds that will only run M+ with their little cliques (Namely Officers and the GM's) and these same people will switch to alts and do more M+ together while leaving out their raiders to go pug. Am I wrong in thinking that this sort of attitude is a bit disadvantageous to the raid as a whole by not helping their core raiders out with runs, rather than their alts? I've been in guilds that have actually put core raiders before alts so it's not like it's not a hard concept to grasp but it seems like to me some guilds just do the opposite and it's triggering.

Should these higher ups in raid guilds be trying to create a sense of teamwork or are they right to just stick to their clique and do M+ with their mains and then alts? Oh and by the way, these cliques never ask in guild chat to try and get core raiders or even potential raiders into groups to get gear.

I see both sides of this one:

• On the one hand, one of the joys of M+ is forming that tight teamwork that comes from running with same team all the time.
• On the other hand, guilds are for supporting each other and cliques suck. I want everyone to feel included.

The ways I compromise are by sitting aside one night to push keys with my core M+ team, always considering guildies first if we need to fill a spot, and by finding at least one other night - usually more - to help any guild mate who needs a key tanked. If someone has a better idea I am all ears.

[Lamora]

Everyone with some agency can easily get a +15 done in our guild. Going for higher keys can be a bit more exclusive as the people who run a lot of m+ tend to stick together.

[Wries]

Idk, in case of pushing high keys, you tend to want to run them with people you've already ran them with. They are on their own progress tier. More cliques than one should preferably form. I do understand that it could feel crappy to not feel a part of any of these cliques and just occasionally getting into whoever's m+ run that is one man short but you either prove yourself then and there or you'll have to form your own group.

We definitely have cliques within our guild, but always at least makes sure that whichever guildie wants a +15 done will get that opportunity.

[Caprix]

Some of the worst key runs i did (nothing super high i'm not an experienced m+ dude) were with guildies (HM-somewhat mythic-raiding-guild 4/11MM right now).
Some of the best, too.
Not with the same guildies obviously...

[Noxina]

Or perhaps you just have to form your own group? Whats wrong with people wanting to do 5 man content with their closest friends? I'd most certainly chose my friends over someone like you (judging from this thread).

There is nothing stoping you from forming a steady group to run m+ with over the weekends, if you just try. So instead of going to a forum, and crying over nothing, try to solve your little 'problem'?

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

Or perhaps you just have to form your own group? Whats wrong with people wanting to do 5 man content with their closest friends? I'd most certainly chose my friends over someone like you (judging from this thread).

There is nothing stoping you from forming a steady group to run m+ with over the weekends, if you just try. So instead of going to a forum, and crying over nothing, try to solve your little 'problem'?

Well I agree with OP that helping raid mates get their 15s done is enlightened self interest. The more geared the raid team, the faster you progress, which means more loot for everyone. I still understand players wanting to run M+ with a consistent team, but there's a balance to be found and maybe that is what this thread is about.

[Ternitubb]

If you're raiding mythic you have 20 people.. Ask some of the other 14 to run with you?
Why is it their fault for you not being able to get a group on your own?

[Alphatorg]

Being an officer in a (somewhat serious) mythic guild consumes a lot of time and gets very little appreciation, I can understand why some people don't feel like micro managing M+ runs in their guild as well and rather go with their closer friends or wait for people to ask them.

[JackWest]

Here's my experience on the topic:
Back in Nighthold I was in a guild, where our GM wanted everyone to farm M+. Not just "weekly 10/15", but actually farm, mainly for the AP. Problem was, he always ran with his friends, who were officers. They were spamming the dungeons mainly on mains, but not as much on alts, beside the "cap". Everyone in the guiild was on "every man for himself" when it comes to grouping. Personally, I hated M+ back then, but I was still trying to join some of them when they do it. It was only on rare occasions that they werent all together and would take someone. I dont mind their "clique" and that they played together a lot, but when you require your "raiders" to do M+, they get mostly declined from pugs, and there is never both tank and healer from the guild available, maybe, just maybe those few ppl should start helping on the last day before reset. which WASNT happening. Fast forward a bit, most ppl left due to GM's attitude towards others and eventually the guild had disbanded(so I heard).
Nowadays, its completely different story. One thing that's changed is I actually enjoy M+ and run them a lot more. The guild I am in, is also much better. There are still "cliques", and I play a lot with the same few ppl, but if there is someone in guild asking for help with his key, they usually get help with it. Even if the grp is full, one person just goes to do smth else and the rest help the guildie out. I probably wouldnt try doing my 18 Nelth I have right now, with a guildie I never did higher keystone with, but I am always gonna help them with a 15 for the chest. Even if it turns out to be a "shitshow", it just for their cap

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

I went through a period when I tried to do too much, taking it upon myself to organize carry groups for guildies on our raid team that struggled with 15s. Thing was, even if I enjoyed the challenge, I was burning out the dps and healers I needed to make these groups work. That was back in 7.1.5 or thereabouts; I have backed off volunteering anyone but myself to help with keys.

[Tradu]

Obviously people are going to run smaller group content with the people they get along with the best, can't really do anything about that. In my guild's case, we have a big group of maybe 10-15 people who do most of our M+ together, but if other people need their +15 or whatever, there's not really any issue with them joining either. Then there's 2 groups who mostly run with friends from outside the guild, which is fine as well.
Anybody who doesn't get their +15(s) done in my guild is basically doing so out of choice(or due to lack of time, which I'd also consider their problem rather than a guild problem), and it was the same in my previous guild as well as the guilds of the friends I sometimes run M+ with. Most of us do +15s on enough alts(in my case 12, most others 2-3) that there's no way there's too few groups available.

[Deleted]

As GM I can log on, ask for a M+ and will almost always be one of the top contenders if there is a group in the forming. It is a nice benefit.

The real problem, is most people ask generically in /g "Hey guys wanna do a M+?" and get no answers.

Guild chat is something a lot of people don't passively pay attention to, even if you're tabbed into wow its in the corner and 90% of guild chat stuff outside of the build up to raid time is usually just meaningless, either having a laugh or talking politics or science etc etc.

If you want to do a M+ with people in your guild, message them directly. In a lot of raid teams, people will raid together but never talk to each other directly and you wonder why that other person isn't inviting you to M+ every now and then. Being sociable, talking directly on an individual level might yield something a bit more promising. If you're getting shot down in whisper every time by multiple people, then your own play style or behaviour is something you've got to look at.

[Tradu]

As GM I can log on, ask for a M+ and will almost always be one of the top contenders if there is a group in the forming. It is a nice benefit.

The real problem, is most people ask generically in /g "Hey guys wanna do a M+?" and get no answers.

Guild chat is something a lot of people don't passively pay attention to, even if you're tabbed into wow its in the corner and 90% of guild chat stuff outside of the build up to raid time is usually just meaningless, either having a laugh or talking politics or science etc etc.

If you want to do a M+ with people in your guild, message them directly. In a lot of raid teams, people will raid together but never talk to each other directly and you wonder why that other person isn't inviting you to M+ every now and then. Being sociable, talking directly on an individual level might yield something a bit more promising. If you're getting shot down in whisper every time by multiple people, then your own play style or behaviour is something you've got to look at.

Also, guild chat might not be the best place to ask in all guilds anyway. I know in mine, asking on discord is much more likely to be succesful, because more people actually pay attention to it, and it also lets you "catch" people who are available but not in-game/will be available soon, as well as some of the random people from other guilds who are in our discord.

[Khebul]

Have you tried talking to people? Being the part of such clique, I am not above helping anybody from the guild with their 15s for a week. All you need is ask.

[klaps_05]

M+ farming is not required to progress through Mythic Raid content. In that case you yourself should show initiative to join/start your own group, but there is no pressure to actually do so either way.

If you are in a leading top20 guild, then M+ runs do have value. In that case your guild leadership should proceed with them in an organized fashion in order for everyone to benefit.

Finally, as M+ only require a small group of 5 and are heavily utility based, it is normal for a few peple to run a tight group. Think what you can bring to the table for their team and how your class fits their composition, and if it doesnt work, start your own.

I personally only pug mostly 19-22s while we do have 1-2 groups in the guild. By pugging such high keys I also made my own connections and now I have my own group where we run our keys. It is always best to have everyone in the guild play together as it promotes cohesion and you learn the intricacies of each player's style, but with group finder flexibility, you can look on a broader scope.