Let's talk about "Hybrid tax"

[Vineri]

Not difficult, tedious is the word you should use for Vanilla related stuff.

Whatever the case, even on post-Nost servers, there are many, many failed guilds who can't even clear MC.

Even though it is technically easier than it was during, say pre-1.6 ... yes.

Trivialize it how you like, but it's not the rose garden you are trying to describe.

[Charge me Doctor]

So the mechanics of the 4 horseman fight in vanilla Naxx were easier than any 5-man legion dungeon? One thing is obvious: You never played vanilla wow much, if at all.

The hard part of 4 horseman was a gear check on tanks. And tank requirement on guilds. It wasn't hard, it didn't had any random shit, it was a very technical fight that had certain requirements , without them you had no chance to do it. And by the way, all the math is already done so everyone here is ready to go and prepare to the fight before actually trying it and feel like a l33t pro raider
"Oh, this fight seems to require more tanks than usual. Ok all warriors get into fantastic adventure to tanking forum and to AQ20/40 for couple of months guys"

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Are we talking about the skill that allows warrior to dual wield 2hand weapons? I do not remember having that stuff in late vanilla, only with tbc.

You sure you don't confuse tbc with wotlk? Because fury warriors had rampage for their top tier talent

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Today raid or die pow didn't existed back then, if some approach vanilla with said mentality they are well on track for a huge delusion, the first thing one need to work on is this kind of approach, raiding is not a right is a reward for busting your ass in whole lot of other activities so having a class that could make those other activities (that include levelling) less painful is extremely valuable.

I really like when people say these things, with attitude like that you can actually enjoy classic servers instead of being disappointed

[khalltusk]

Are we talking about the skill that allows warrior to dual wield 2hand weapons? I do not remember having that stuff in late vanilla, only with tbc.

That ability came in the Wrath pre patch if i remember rightly. So at the end of sunwell when the wrath talents were put into the live game.

[tankbug]

......wut

1. If you were only getting a charity spot, its because you were bad. Fury was great the entire xpac. Especially when Titans Grip came out, warriors were wrecking dps charts
2. Uh... yes they could? Easily? Tab target is hard
3. Oh... guess they forgot to mention that to me since I never had an issue with it.....
4. Then you had shit groups that had no idea how to maximize players abilities or the knowledge of when/how to use them.

It basically sounds like you had no idea how to play the class properly, running with groups that had no idea what was going on, and now complaining about how broken it was back then....

1. Nope, the message was clear "if you want to play warrior, go tank". TG was at added in the wotlk prepatch, so who cares? And even then it wasn't that great, unless you had good enough gear to keep you from being rage starved.
2/3. Not sure what you are referring to, but if you're talking about survivability and fear, then I guess you joined very late and had groups outgearing the content. When you HAVE to CC one or preferably two mobs in a group to progress, you don't send them all running around, getting mates. Even if you were lucky, your group would probably yell at your and even throw you out.
4. Oh sorry, professor, we failed to apply the optimized attack/defense sequences to master the encounters.


Clearly I have met the God of Gaming that magically negates all difficult barriers that Blizzard put in place to give us a challenge.
Or.....you're just a troll so full of shit it's coming out of your ears. Go play somewhere else...

[Ehrenpanzer]

1. Nope, the message was clear "if you want to play warrior, go tank". TG was at added in the wotlk prepatch, so who cares? And even then it wasn't that great, unless you had good enough gear to keep you from being rage starved.
2/3. Not sure what you are referring to, but if you're talking about survivability and fear, then I guess you joined very late and had groups outgearing the content. When you HAVE to CC one or preferably two mobs in a group to progress, you don't send them all running around, getting mates. Even if you were lucky, your group would probably yell at your and even throw you out.
4. Oh sorry, professor, we failed to apply the optimized attack/defense sequences to master the encounters.


Clearly I have met the God of Gaming that magically negates all difficult barriers that Blizzard put in place to give us a challenge.
Or.....you're just a troll so full of shit it's coming out of your ears. Go play somewhere else...

1. Get a better guild
2. Nope, been around since mid-Vanilla.. played my warrior from Naxx progression right up to Cata release (including Sunwell to Muru, guess I was lucky to have a guild give me a charity spot right?) In terms of surviability, fears were pretty predictable from the bosses that used them, its not Blizzards fault if you couldnt be assed to bring a shaman, or a priest, or learn when to use berserker rage..... As far as CC goes, YOU WERENT THERE TO CC MOBS, you were there for buffs/debuffs/dps/best MT in the game. Fuck man, seriously, what kind of shit groups did you run with that expected CC from a warrior?
3/4. That was the entire POINT of the warrior class... if you wanted derp faceroll you should have played a hunter. Your second comment only reinforces the fact you are a clueless twit with no idea what is going on, running with other clueless twits then complaining the game is hard.

No, you've just met someone who is not a fucking retard and actually knew how to play their class, instead of running to the forums whining like a little bitch about rogues and how you actually have to use your brain to play a warrior.

[Deleted]

because they were already rewarded by having 3 different class in one character, so to avoid those class becoming the only one used blizzard make them pay the hybrid tax, that steam from an era when having alts was absolutely uncommon so a class who could do more than one role was priceless (mind this is considering the game as whole both pvp and pve).

Yeah, but you can't respec in the raid and 2 of 3 roles on the Hybrid Classes are not viable. So in the end, they are pure healers. Warrior on the other Hand is the one Creators Pet Class that can chose between his given roles DPS or Tank.

[bufferunderrun]

Yeah, but you can't respec in the raid and 2 of 3 roles on the Hybrid Classes are not viable. So in the end, they are pure healers. Warrior on the other Hand is the one Creators Pet Class that can chose between his given roles DPS or Tank.

again you are observing it from today pow, vanilla wasn't all about raiding it wasn't designed about raiding, if you go into it with only raiding in mind let alone hybrid the whole experience will greatly disappoint you.

Do hybrid where mainly healer in raid? Indeed, but their versatility was a huge plus for all the other activity you were "COMPELLED" to do if you want to be rewarded with a raiding spot.

Really my advice is to don't think about raiding at all when playing vanilla.

[tankbug]

1. Get a better guild
2. Nope, been around since mid-Vanilla.. played my warrior from Naxx progression right up to Cata release (including Sunwell to Muru, guess I was lucky to have a guild give me a charity spot right?) In terms of surviability, fears were pretty predictable from the bosses that used them, its not Blizzards fault if you couldnt be assed to bring a shaman, or a priest, or learn when to use berserker rage..... As far as CC goes, YOU WERENT THERE TO CC MOBS, you were there for buffs/debuffs/dps/best MT in the game. Fuck man, seriously, what kind of shit groups did you run with that expected CC from a warrior?
3/4. That was the entire POINT of the warrior class... if you wanted derp faceroll you should have played a hunter. Your second comment only reinforces the fact you are a clueless twit with no idea what is going on, running with other clueless twits then complaining the game is hard.

No, you've just met someone who is not a fucking retard and actually knew how to play their class, instead of running to the forums whining like a little bitch about rogues and how you actually have to use your brain to play a warrior.

1. Not saying they were perfect, but we progressed well into Naxx before we switched, and I was given to option to reroll role or play alt.
2. Of course I'm not referring to mobs fearing the group, but the warrior's ability to fear mobs, which is about the only CC a warrior could bring to the table. And yes, it was useless, and yes, heroic random pick up groups didn't want a warrior when there was no shortage of "pure" dps characters with lots of CC around. If heroics in TBC required an off-tank for many encounters, things would have been different.
3. If the point of the warrior is to be useful only as tank, they shouldn't have added dps specs. "Here, you can play as gimps, hahaha". If they want warriors to have a choice, they have to make them strong enough to fill that role, and after they dropped that hybrid tax bullshit, dps warriors have been a welcome addition to the raid, especially near the end of each expansion when gear gave them enough stats to keep the rage up. That's the whole point of this topic.

You can claim to not being a retard, but you have obviously problems with reading/comprehension , and that profile-pic doesn't exactly do you a favor in that regard, either. Christ...

[Soon-TM]

1. Not saying they were perfect, but we progressed well into Naxx before we switched, and I was given to option to reroll role or play alt.
2. Of course I'm not referring to mobs fearing the group, but the warrior's ability to fear mobs, which is about the only CC a warrior could bring to the table. And yes, it was useless, and yes, heroic random pick up groups didn't want a warrior when there was no shortage of "pure" dps characters with lots of CC around. If heroics in TBC required an off-tank for many encounters, things would have been different.
3. If the point of the warrior is to be useful only as tank, they shouldn't have added dps specs. "Here, you can play as gimps, hahaha". If they want warriors to have a choice, they have to make them strong enough to fill that role, and after they dropped that hybrid tax bullshit, dps warriors have been a welcome addition to the raid, especially near the end of each expansion when gear gave them enough stats to keep the rage up. That's the whole point of this topic.

You can claim to not being a retard, but you have obviously problems with reading/comprehension , and that profile-pic doesn't exactly do you a favor in that regard, either. Christ...

When discussing Vanilla, you must bear in mind that the game was made with a very different philosophy than today's rendition. Class design iterated on the classic (non WoW-related) motto of each class having strengths and weaknesses, much like hero units from WC3 (which Vanilla is clearly based upon), or even D2, which came shortly before WC3. From this perspective, having an innate ability to heal was a strength in and out of itself, which had to be compensated with downsides in other areas; in other words, if you rolled a class with a healing button, you had to heal sooner or later. Which makes sense imo: if you have no interest whatsoever in healing, then you don't roll a healing capable class.

Sure, there were lots of rough edges in Vanilla (BC was a clear improvement in that regard), but if you change that mindset, then you simply have another game, more akin to WotLK or Cata. Take it or leave it.

[tankbug]

When discussing Vanilla, you must bear in mind that the game was made with a very different philosophy than today's rendition. Class design iterated on the classic (non WoW-related) motto of each class having strengths and weaknesses, much like hero units from WC3 (which Vanilla is clearly based upon), or even D2, which came shortly before WC3. From this perspective, having an innate ability to heal was a strength in and out of itself, which had to be compensated with downsides in other areas; in other words, if you rolled a class with a healing button, you had to heal sooner or later. Which makes sense imo: if you have no interest whatsoever in healing, then you don't roll a healing capable class.

Sure, there were lots of rough edges in Vanilla (BC was a clear improvement in that regard), but if you change that mindset, then you simply have another game, more akin to WotLK or Cata. Take it or leave it.

Certainly, but then I prefer the gladiator stance approach then. If you want to make a class stick to the "basic role", then don't stray too far with the design and expect the player to fulfill all kinds of purposes. Also, if you take away raw dps you must substitute with something that's very useful to make up for it. I feel that during the hybrid-tax days, this was not balanced, at least for a warrior, I have little experience with endgame content on alts from that period.

[Lolsteak]

Are we talking about the skill that allows warrior to dual wield 2hand weapons? I do not remember having that stuff in late vanilla, only with tbc.

Well that shows how much you know about WoW.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Titan%27s_Grip

[Thimagryn]

Do hybrid where mainly healer in raid? Indeed, but their versatility was a huge plus for all the other activity you were "COMPELLED" to do if you want to be rewarded with a raiding spot.

Really my advice is to don't think about raiding at all when playing vanilla.

"Don't think about Hybrid raid balance cause you're still versatile everywhere else" has very little effect in a discussion thread dedicated to hybrid tax balance. Even if pures have to eat or drink in other activities, they're already balanced with higher burst potential and other methods of getting things done.

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When discussing Vanilla, you must bear in mind that the game was made with a very different philosophy than today's rendition. Class design iterated on the classic (non WoW-related) motto of each class having strengths and weaknesses, much like hero units from WC3 (which Vanilla is clearly based upon), or even D2, which came shortly before WC3. From this perspective, having an innate ability to heal was a strength in and out of itself, which had to be compensated with downsides in other areas; in other words, if you rolled a class with a healing button, you had to heal sooner or later. Which makes sense imo: if you have no interest whatsoever in healing, then you don't roll a healing capable class.

If Feral was able to heal in forms, I would agree with you. Even popping out of form to cast a free heal ever so often is not a good trade off since you're going to lose that 3% crit buff for melees in your party for the time you do that, as well as you're eating up your own mana pool in shifting out so you can only do that so many times within any period. On top of that, the tax extends to giving you stats that support THAT type of play even though the spirit on your gear doesn't necessarily help you much in shifting out for off-heals, and you're better off getting more agility/strength or even vit so you can perform better as a hybrid DPS.

I'm fine with there being Hybrid Tax in the game, but the game is not well balanced towards the stats you need and the type of gameplay you should be performing. If you didn't need to shift out of cat to cast Natures Grace heal-procs, or if shifting cost little-to-no mana and is intended to be used liberally, then maybe we can talk about versatility. However, this only really comes up if 1- your healers are underperforming and need the help of offheals or 2- your tank died and you need someone, anyone to pick it up and save the raid. That's not ideal for why we're being taxed so heavily and why our stats are so spread out.

It's bad enough trying to itemize for hit on gear when Druid leather gear gives spirit and int and makes it so much harder to properly gear up. Playing a Feral in Vanilla means 'stealing' Rogue gear. A simple fix like what they added later that converts spirit to Hit would effectively solve this issue. The conversation that 'Hybrid DPS is fine' hinges on little things like having to take gear intended for another class and all the problems associated with how Raids will distribute that gear. Why give it to the druid when the Rogue will make better use of it?

[Charge me Doctor]

If Feral was able to heal in forms, I would agree with you. Even popping out of form to cast a free heal ever so often is not a good trade off since you're going to lose that 3% crit buff for melees in your party for the time you do that, as well as you're eating up your own mana pool in shifting out so you can only do that so many times within any period. On top of that, the tax extends to giving you stats that support THAT type of play even though the spirit on your gear doesn't necessarily help you much in shifting out for off-heals, and you're better off getting more agility/strength or even vit so you can perform better as a hybrid DPS.

Popping out of form and back to it drains like 30% of your mana iirc. Throwing in a high ranked HT and you are unable to go back into your combat form. Kek. Well, if you are running in full agi gear instead of getting your mana to a comfortable cap. Losing crit buff for 3 seconds is not crucial by the way.

Also, wat do with powershifting in vanilla? It was a huge advantage for those who had those scripts, but since they are common knowledge now, shouldn't blizzard simply remove it or make it baseline?

the gameplay back then was WAY slower than it is today, now, depending on your spec, you spam a filler, generate resources, pop coolies, dump resources at appropriate time (aka, not when phase transition happens in 3 seconds). Back in vanilla you could easily just wand or stand around half of a boss fight. I remember it being as ridiculous as me having 4 macros for shadowbolt to target different NPCs. Yes, 1 was to shadowbolt Majordomo, 2 was to target healer add without shield or poly, 3 was to target other add without trap on it or shield. Also i had an addon that automatically lifetaps when i get "out of mana" message. Well there was also curse that i had to use.
And no, i didn't came up with these macros and addons, i snatched it from guild forum somewhere.

My point is - adding stuff like procs, instant healing casts, debuffs, buffs to classes will end up with us having live gameplay (hectic, fast), not slow and steady (boring for some) gameplay of vanilla. But i personally don't think that rebalancing numbers will break the vanilla experience (say, instead of warlocks being top DPS pre 1.5 or when melees became relevant damage dealers, i can't remember at this point, making paladins seals and judgements buffed to the point of them taking top DPS spot, replacing the "curse of shadows" debuff slot with "judgement of crusader"), it will be the very same vanilla experience, just with different classes being on top of it, as long as it doesn't break this vanilla experience - any change is fine, since those who have played it will have something new (and experience new stuff was 99% of vanilla experience) and those who didn't play vanilla won't give a fuck anyways, because any version of it will be new to them

[Echocho]

So the mechanics of the 4 horseman fight in vanilla Naxx were easier than any 5-man legion dungeon? One thing is obvious: You never played vanilla wow much, if at all.

4H was piss easy once you had the correct group composition and gear. That's not really difficulty, it's a barrier to entry.

[seventysix]

4H was piss easy once you had the correct group composition and gear. That's not really difficulty, it's a barrier to entry.

Agreed 4h was not mechanically challenging in any way shape or form...having 8 warrior tanks with the t3 taunt bonus was the problem like he said that's not difficulty, that's just annoying.

[Specialka]

That is why I did not bother answering to him, he would not understand since it seems that he finds Vanilla mechanically difficult.

[pateuvasiliu]

Disclaimer - this isn't a proposition of changing anything, this is merely to spark the discussion about Jeff Kaplan's idea of hybrid tax and him being under the impression WoW was going to be a tabletop campaign or something.

In the past, Blizzard had a stance of "hybrid tax". If someone is unclear as to what that is - it's the idea that hybrid classes should do less damage to offset the utility they bring in various other areas. Like, a druid should do less damage by principle of having healing spells, buffs, CC and the ability to switch to a bear and maybe hold some adds on him for some time, something that a rogue cannot.

When it comes to vanilla, I have always disagreed with that principle for 2 reasons:

1. No class would ever switch between specs in the middle of an encounter, so having you have to specialize to do damage, or to tank or to heal shouldn't affect "class balance" or make you regret picking a pure dps class just because if you picked a druid you could've healed aswell.

2. Hybrids for some reason (in WoW) had a very finished and fully developed healing spec. Everyone always says they are jacks of all trades but masters of none, but it seems to me they have been pretty much masters of healing. So isn't it unfair that while their healing specs are properly polished and finished, their dps and tank specs were lackluster and useless?

Yeah no, what's the point of rolling a Rogue or Warrior, with the horrible levelling and gearing they have, if a Druid or Shaman can compete in DPS?

Warriors and Rogues are by far hardest to level and gear, requiring the most enchants and crafted pieces. They also need resistance gear in AQ.

They SHOULD do the most damage. Hybrids have PvE viable spec. Not all of them are, nor should they. Rogues only PvE as Combat, Hunters only PvE as Marksmanship.

[ManiaCCC]

"Don't think about Hybrid raid balance cause you're still versatile everywhere else" has very little effect in a discussion thread dedicated to hybrid tax balance. Even if pures have to eat or drink in other activities, they're already balanced with higher burst potential and other methods of getting things done.

You are missing the point buddy here. It is not about if "pures are as viable as hybrids in other activities" but fact, that hybrids were actually hybrids outside the raiding environment. That's why hybrid tax exists.

[Melusine]

Because a Rogue has better mobility, better CC, better raid survivability, more abilities in stealth, perhaps a globally easier rotation, and some people would really just rather play Rogues?

You know, kinda like on live?

I don't understand this notion that all classes become identical, with no point of differentiation, as soon as you take away gross imbalances. Different classes/specs can be good at different things without arbitrarily deciding that one of them should do shit DPS as a ''tax'' in exchange for utility that other classes (that also have utility, mind you) do not pay. In reality it just doesn't matter that a Druid can DPS at range, the DPS is pitiful and drains its precious mana that is much better served on heals. So why should it pay a tax, for an ability that is arguably less useful than the Rogue's own toolkit?

Better mobility, like, the ability to poly out of traps and snares, right? Both have a dash, and well, cats move faster in cat form than other classes typically....
Better CC, that's arguable, at least in the time of the idea of the hybrid tax. Roots was something that could be cast over and over, typhoon was a thing, the only thing I can think of that a rogue was able to do better was stun lock.
Better survivability in a raid? Bull shit!!! Rogues evasion tanking isn't the same as popping into a bear.
Perhaps an easier rotation? Use of a weasel word like "perhaps" isn't very convincing.....

Ok, one more time... from the top here.

IF (that part is important here...) a kitty can do everything a rogue can, but also can do all the things I originally listed, including healing in a pinch, pop bear form and be a tank or serve as a ranged snares, and range dps (call it what you want, when you can't be up the bosses ass, the dps a druid can put out is still higher than a rogue throwing knives, a min/max'er will not give a shit about rolling in as a rogue. Druids have things like battle rezzes, at one time could use tranquility, and can be a ranged dps if the situation demands a boomchicken instead. Say what you want, I don't think a feral should, in the face of being a dps, do shit damage, but it isn't like that was never a thing. Remember the shadow priest of Wrath of the Lich King? They offered a raid replenishment ability, and stacking spriests was not a typical dps strategy, but having 1 was a good thing, even if their overall dps was less than, say, the arcane mage or affliction warlock (during Naxx).

IF (again, important) a feral has (arbitrarily, because I want this as simple as possible) 9/10 abilities a rogue does, but has things like healing, bear form and battle rezzes, mass entanglement, tranquility, and immunity to shape shifting, while a rogue has stun lock (something that doesn't usually work on boss encounters), blind (same thing), feint and evasion (things that actually do work), and could output the same type of dps as a rogue, why would anyone be a rogue? Class stacking is a thing. Spec stacking also a thing. In one of my raid groups, it comprises a blood DK and a bear tank, 3 affliction warlocks, an outlaw, a ret pally, a frost mage (me), a shadow priest, a hunter, a holy priest and a disc priest. Our two healers rarely find difficulty healing a raid encounter, because it has a shadow priest, a blood dk, and 3 affliction locks. We all play a certain role, but even though we didn't intend to stack certain classes, there is a reason this grp does well. It has to its credit, 5 battle rezzers, high degree of self heals, durable melee, a stampeding roar, and a hunter with core hounds, so I can use shard of the exodar later in the fight, OR a battle rez pet when we aren't popping time lust at the start of an encounter. This team wouldn't work well if it did not abide its strengths, would you not agree?

Long before World of Warcraft was a thing, there was Dungeons and Dragons. It always seems like there are some people out there that wanted to try to role play a Mary Sue/Gary Stu, and I'll admit, since concepts like dps wasn't an issue, when there was no chance of failure, there was no fun. All too often, you'd see a person rolling in with a character sporting all max scores (clearly not randomly generated), able to do things outside the arbitrary bounds of the game and deeply offending one's sense of suspension of disbelief, like being a 60 pound Halfling able to lift 500 pounds over his head unaided by magic, or a magic user able to cast AND move silently in full plate armor, AND cast cleric spells, AND dual wield 2 2-handed swords, while using a shield, AND being able to cast spells requires somatic gestures, AND was wielding the Sword of Kas, while at the same time, having the hand and eye of Vecna attached to him, and suffering no penalties from wielding artifacts in mutual contradiction to each other (if you don't know what I'm talking about, google Vecna and Kas to see what I mean), and understand, wielding artifacts in D&D is both powerful AND dangerous, unlike the artifacts we wield. There was a reason they balanced things out like they did. There was always a price to be paid for wielding powerful magic, for example. You wouldn't be able to wear armor, use effective weapons like swords, polearms, or shields, have the smallest hit point pool, and the rise to being ultra-powerful in magic would be longer and more arduous than taking up a sword and learning to fight, totally forsaking magic. Some had the ability to be a mage, others didn't. Same with every other class. They knew dealing with ultra-powerful Mary Sue/Gary Stu characters was unbalancing, and Blizzard at least understands that much.

[Jastall]

Better mobility, like, the ability to poly out of traps and snares, right? Both have a dash, and well, cats move faster in cat form than other classes typically....
Better CC, that's arguable, at least in the time of the idea of the hybrid tax. Roots was something that could be cast over and over, typhoon was a thing, the only thing I can think of that a rogue was able to do better was stun lock.
Better survivability in a raid? Bull shit!!! Rogues evasion tanking isn't the same as popping into a bear.
Perhaps an easier rotation? Use of a weasel word like "perhaps" isn't very convincing.....

Ok, one more time... from the top here.

IF (that part is important here...) a kitty can do everything a rogue can, but also can do all the things I originally listed, including healing in a pinch, pop bear form and be a tank or serve as a ranged snares, and range dps (call it what you want, when you can't be up the bosses ass, the dps a druid can put out is still higher than a rogue throwing knives, a min/max'er will not give a shit about rolling in as a rogue. Druids have things like battle rezzes, at one time could use tranquility, and can be a ranged dps if the situation demands a boomchicken instead. Say what you want, I don't think a feral should, in the face of being a dps, do shit damage, but it isn't like that was never a thing. Remember the shadow priest of Wrath of the Lich King? They offered a raid replenishment ability, and stacking spriests was not a typical dps strategy, but having 1 was a good thing, even if their overall dps was less than, say, the arcane mage or affliction warlock (during Naxx).

IF (again, important) a feral has (arbitrarily, because I want this as simple as possible) 9/10 abilities a rogue does, but has things like healing, bear form and battle rezzes, mass entanglement, tranquility, and immunity to shape shifting, while a rogue has stun lock (something that doesn't usually work on boss encounters), blind (same thing), feint and evasion (things that actually do work), and could output the same type of dps as a rogue, why would anyone be a rogue? Class stacking is a thing. Spec stacking also a thing. In one of my raid groups, it comprises a blood DK and a bear tank, 3 affliction warlocks, an outlaw, a ret pally, a frost mage (me), a shadow priest, a hunter, a holy priest and a disc priest. Our two healers rarely find difficulty healing a raid encounter, because it has a shadow priest, a blood dk, and 3 affliction locks. We all play a certain role, but even though we didn't intend to stack certain classes, there is a reason this grp does well. It has to its credit, 5 battle rezzers, high degree of self heals, durable melee, a stampeding roar, and a hunter with core hounds, so I can use shard of the exodar later in the fight, OR a battle rez pet when we aren't popping time lust at the start of an encounter. This team wouldn't work well if it did not abide its strengths, would you not agree?

Long before World of Warcraft was a thing, there was Dungeons and Dragons. It always seems like there are some people out there that wanted to try to role play a Mary Sue/Gary Stu, and I'll admit, since concepts like dps wasn't an issue, when there was no chance of failure, there was no fun. All too often, you'd see a person rolling in with a character sporting all max scores (clearly not randomly generated), able to do things outside the arbitrary bounds of the game and deeply offending one's sense of suspension of disbelief, like being a 60 pound Halfling able to lift 500 pounds over his head unaided by magic, or a magic user able to cast AND move silently in full plate armor, AND cast cleric spells, AND dual wield 2 2-handed swords, while using a shield, AND being able to cast spells requires somatic gestures, AND was wielding the Sword of Kas, while at the same time, having the hand and eye of Vecna attached to him, and suffering no penalties from wielding artifacts in mutual contradiction to each other (if you don't know what I'm talking about, google Vecna and Kas to see what I mean), and understand, wielding artifacts in D&D is both powerful AND dangerous, unlike the artifacts we wield. There was a reason they balanced things out like they did. There was always a price to be paid for wielding powerful magic, for example. You wouldn't be able to wear armor, use effective weapons like swords, polearms, or shields, have the smallest hit point pool, and the rise to being ultra-powerful in magic would be longer and more arduous than taking up a sword and learning to fight, totally forsaking magic. Some had the ability to be a mage, others didn't. Same with every other class. They knew dealing with ultra-powerful Mary Sue/Gary Stu characters was unbalancing, and Blizzard at least understands that much.

And yet, with all you said, Rogues are still a very important part of raiding on live because of their unique toolkit, few fights feature more DPS Rogues than DPS Druids, and when it does it's pretty much only because Balance is really good at multidotting. Enhancement is better than most melee DPS specs on a pure performance level but is relatively rarely taken to Mythic due to its lack of durability, mobility and utility. DPS is far from everything.

This idea that the hybrid tax is the only measure keeping everyone from rerolling druids and shammys doesn't work out in reality. Most people will just play the class they want, and hardcore players such as Mythic raiders will bring whatever has the tools to do the job rather than worry about the hypothetical number of things a class can do once in a blue moon if pressed. Keep the hybrid tax and the servers will just be flooded with mages, rogues and warriors just like they were in Classic because most other classes have arbitrary disadvantage that have their roots in some idealized conception of balance and design (''you can't have X if you have Y!!'') rather than how this game is actually played (you can only do one thing at a time and your abilities always have limits, so having 2 healing spells and a crappy tank offspec on the fly isn't always better than a Rogue being able to soak all day and live when you would go splat).

As for your example, 5 brezzers is meaningless when they are capped in raids, and self heals don't matter too much in actually hard raids where what kills you is not often lack of heals but mechanics that will mercilessly destroy you if you fail them regardless of how good healers are. Sure, Aff locks can pad meters with their self heals but that doesn't actually help their healers in most cases, it just makes easy content even easier. I also notice you have a Rogue and no DPS Druids, despite the reasoning being that no one will roll Rogues if Druids can also do good DPS, which they absolutely can. So no, sorry to say but your team doesn't have much that is special.

And again, WoW is not D&D, does not model itself on D&D beyond the general concept of being an adventurer in a fantasy setting, and should not be held to the standards of a totally different game on a totally different platform.