Raider.IO Development Updates - Raids and Mythic Plus

[MiseryIndex]

The runaway popularity of the addon should be more than enough to indicate that you guys are on the right track, regardless of what the whiners say. You guys have put together a very useful tool, so, thank you.

[Onikaroshi]

The runaway popularity of the addon should be more than enough to indicate that you guys are on the right track, regardless of what the whiners say. You guys have put together a very useful tool, so, thank you.

All runaway popularity really means is there is a good chance of blizz snatching it up and implementing it themselves, much like GS to ilvl and outfitter to the dressing room. Whether its an improvement or not, we'll see maybe, and that's also personal preference.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

Your M+ scoring, now that I've taken time to look at it, gives us a new metric for measuring our progress, and gives me new goals to work on. Competing mostly with myself, as always, it's nice to have someone keeping score while I work to achieve new personal bests. Kudos & thanks.

[Deleted]

Add a feature that shows a separate "score" for the specific dungeon and the specific affixes. Until then, the score is an irrelevant metric for comparing two capable players and perpetuating its usage is enforcing bad habits in pugs like people leaving dungeons that wont be keyed.

I would love something like this or at least split tyrannical and fortified. Right now m+ score could be named score for running m+ on sanguine, volcanic and fortified week. It also make it pointless to try push your score higher on tyrannical weeks because some bosses become impossible.

[Dracodraco]

I would love something like this or at least split tyrannical and fortified. Right now m+ score could be named score for running m+ on sanguine, volcanic and fortified week. It also make it pointless to try push your score higher on tyrannical weeks because some bosses become impossible.

I feel as if this isn't actually that major of an issue for most people. Reasoning being:


(Numbers used purely as an example, don't fucking get your panties twisted because you pugged a 21 this week)
If you did keys that were so high last week that you can't possibly catch up to the same score (as an example; People doing a 23 when normally 20 is the highest they're capable of), everyone's in the same boat so the score isn't super relevant except "yea I've pushed this dungeon high, I know what happens". You're not going to go from pugging a 23 in sanguine week to pugging a 23 this week - it'll likely be a 20 instead, in which case the playing field is even. The only "uneven" thing here is that it's hard to catch up to the M+ score of people who pushed REALLY HARD last week, but then, if some dude has done 23's across the board and is sitting at almost 4K score, chances are he's not bad anyway.

Likewise, gear progression from week to week allows you to push higher, so while a 20 might the max a pug does in a "bad" week atm, that ceiling will be raised - and it's like, 3 months till we get the volcanic/sanguine combo again.

[ID811717]

I feel as if this isn't actually that major of an issue for most people. Reasoning being:


(Numbers used purely as an example, don't fucking get your panties twisted because you pugged a 21 this week)
If you did keys that were so high last week that you can't possibly catch up to the same score (as an example; People doing a 23 when normally 20 is the highest they're capable of), everyone's in the same boat so the score isn't super relevant except "yea I've pushed this dungeon high, I know what happens". You're not going to go from pugging a 23 in sanguine week to pugging a 23 this week - it'll likely be a 20 instead, in which case the playing field is even. The only "uneven" thing here is that it's hard to catch up to the M+ score of people who pushed REALLY HARD last week, but then, if some dude has done 23's across the board and is sitting at almost 4K score, chances are he's not bad anyway.

Likewise, gear progression from week to week allows you to push higher, so while a 20 might the max a pug does in a "bad" week atm, that ceiling will be raised - and it's like, 3 months till we get the volcanic/sanguine combo again.

The bad part is the score inflation. Many players significantly increase their scores on the easy week (could be an extra 300-400 score on wowprogress and 1000 score on raider.io). Anyone who missed the hardcore push week is stuck several brackets below their actual peers.

If Donald can do +17s on hard weeks and +20s on the easy week, and Donald had the time to finish all the keys on +20 previous week, this week he will prefer to run his +17 keys with other people who did all dungeons on +20 (everyone wants to play with players of same skill level). If you can do +17s on hard weeks but skipped the easy week, you will get rejected by all the Donalds for their +17 keys from now on (Donald thinks: your score for doing +17 could be earned in the easy week, and you are actually only able to do +15 on the hard weeks).

Basically, the easy week devalues the score, making it a worse metric. There is a huge difference in experience between people who farm +24s on hard weeks and people who farm +24s on the easy week. You either have to assume that everyone who did all dungeons on +24 did that on the easy week, or you have to go and spend a lot more time clicking on their wowprogress/raider.io profiles to understand how they earned their score.

This mostly affects players doing higher keys, but I still wonder whether the frequent "2k" requirement for the +15s will also get inflated due to that.

[Aspir]

We're holding a discussion on the Raider.IO Discord about whether to start a new season with 7.3.5. We'd like as much input from folks as we can get, so if this is a topic you want to chime in on please join our Discord and join the discussion: https://discord.gg/raider

[Bhorin]

We're holding a discussion on the Raider.IO Discord about whether to start a new season with 7.3.5. We'd like as much input from folks as we can get, so if this is a topic you want to chime in on please join our Discord and join the discussion: https://discord.gg/raider

Hey, at least M+ changed this time unlike the last time you guys reset it for no reason whatsoever.

[ItsTiddles]

Hey, at least M+ changed this time unlike the last time you guys reset it for no reason whatsoever.

You mean with the jump in ilvl and player power? I wouldn't call that "no reason"

[Bhorin]

You mean with the jump in ilvl and player power? I wouldn't call that "no reason"

Probably a waste of time to reply to you, but ilvl doesn't change the difficulty of m+ dungeons at all.

If you can do +20 <insert dungeon name here> dungeon in X minutes in 930 gear you can do +20 <insert dungeon name here> in X minutes or less in 950 gear. That is to say since people use Raider.io to determine someones "skill" (for lack of better word) adding ilvl to their "skill" doesn't really change the minimum they are able to do.. only the maximum. So, if someone was "2500" they have done all +17 or so (rough math cause the numbers don't actually matter), when you add ilvl to their gear you expect them to be at 2,500 if not higher.

[ItsTiddles]

Probably a waste of time to reply to you, but ilvl doesn't change the difficulty of m+ dungeons at all.

If you can do +20 <insert dungeon name here> dungeon in X minutes in 930 gear you can do +20 <insert dungeon name here> in X minutes or less in 950 gear. That is to say since people use Raider.io to determine someones "skill" (for lack of better word) adding ilvl to their "skill" doesn't really change the minimum they are able to do.. only the maximum. So, if someone was "2500" they have done all +17 or so (rough math cause the numbers don't actually matter), when you add ilvl to their gear you expect them to be at 2,500 if not higher.

I support a change in season with buffs to power level because it will help prevent ridiculously long seasons, but that's just my opinion. However, it's still a reason whether you support it or not, which was the point of my post.

[Bhorin]

Like I said probably a waste of time replying to you.

[ItsTiddles]

You're right, you should never reply to people you don't agree with. Opinions are a scary thing.

[Bhorin]

Well, you're plainly wrong, which is why it was a waste of time and I could tell that you would have the exact incorrect rebut before I replied. That is why it is a waste of time, not because of varying opinions.

[A-sayo]

We aren't getting a powerboost this patch (outside of the weekly pantheon blessing). The only change affecting Mythic+ would be the brez limit, yet I don't think it justifies a new season (read : I don't want to do a 18+ Seat ever again. :<).

[Res03]

We're holding a discussion on the Raider.IO Discord about whether to start a new season with 7.3.5. We'd like as much input from folks as we can get, so if this is a topic you want to chime in on please join our Discord and join the discussion: https://discord.gg/raider

Are you just trying to add more AIDs to pugging?

[lol]

I do not think a 7.3.5 season is needed as well. If we were getting a power-boost in any way, shape or form I'd say go for it, but the only change we're seeing to M+ is the battle resurrection limit, which was only abused by people running very high keys, a majority of players will be mostly unaffected by this and their scores will be indicative of such.

[Deleted]

We're holding a discussion on the Raider.IO Discord about whether to start a new season with 7.3.5. We'd like as much input from folks as we can get, so if this is a topic you want to chime in on please join our Discord and join the discussion: https://discord.gg/raider

Please do, the combat ress change alone should warrant for a new season given how much of an impact it has had!

[ItsTiddles]

We aren't getting a powerboost this patch (outside of the weekly pantheon blessing). The only change affecting Mythic+ would be the brez limit, yet I don't think it justifies a new season (read : I don't want to do a 18+ Seat ever again. :<).

Are you just trying to add more AIDs to pugging?

No worries, they announced they are not doing a new season on their discord

[A-sayo]

No worries, they announced they are not doing a new season on their discord

*open an ice cream box and eat it whole with an outstanding passion*