New California

[Bdatik]

Where else would they get their taxes from?

Taking half the Bay Area would likely come close to, if not outright make the new state lean left instead of right, which is what their aim is likely. They really didn't think it through.

[Everwake]

What on earth makes you think that the rural areas would stop selling food to the cities.

The rural areas of the new state would set the prices for the food they are selling to the cities of the other state. Would they charge more or less than they currently charge?

[Vanyali]

The rural areas of the new state would set the prices for the food they are selling to the cities of the other state. Would they charge more or less than they currently charge?

You're saying they could charge more, but chose not to make a larger profit? I think you're not thinking your argument through too well.

[Auxora]

The far-right are the ones pushing this agenda. It's just a different approach to gerrymandering. The problem is the right can't pick and choose where to do it. If they were going to do this, I'd say do the same in other states that have been gerrymandered to the extreme like Alabama.

BTW, the far-right has gotten bad about repeating this threat/attempt at using secession to their benefit. It started even before the election when it looked like Hillary was certain to win and they threatened to have Texas secede. Glenn Beck, Bill O'Reilly, etc. all seriously discussed this prior to the election. (Ed: Not that I consider either of them far-right, just saying if they discussed it then the further-right definitely did). It went so far as to dive into the specific legal statutes about how Texas could go about seceding and why they should. Then after Trump won, it shifted to this idea of blue states either seceding to increase the red margin in the house/senate, or gerrymandering with this "new state" idea.

[Kaleredar]

See, here you reveal your bias. YOU don't want OUR views becoming imposed on YOU. Which is exactly what is happening to rural Californians at the moment. Put yourself in their shoes.

They're having views imposed on them because they aren't as numerous.


That's what happens in a democracy.

[Kapadons]

So maybe I’m mistaken, but how much legislature do the urban centers dictate to the rural areas wanting the split? Maybe Texas is sheltered because the state as a whole is red but Austin is plenty liberal and has some weird ass rules in place that dictate only to Austin.

What is the specific reason for wanting the split? Other than generic “we are different and wanna govern ourselves ? “

Is there any specific legislation that currently harms specific rural areas ? I mean other than “letting the gays get married” and “killing babies”. Guessing high state tax might be part of it ? But can they show up to the capital and prove “this is the legislature that is harming our ability to live” I’m gonna find that hard to believe.

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The far-right are the ones pushing this agenda. It's just a different approach to gerrymandering. The problem is the right can't pick and choose where to do it. If they were going to do this, I'd say do the same in other states that have been gerrymandered to the extreme like Alabama.

BTW, the far-right has gotten bad about repeating this threat/attempt at using secession to their benefit. It started even before the election when it looked like Hillary was certain to win and they threatened to have Texas secede. Glenn Beck, Bill O'Reilly, etc. all seriously discussed this prior to the election. It went so far as to dive into the specific legal statutes about how Texas could go about seceding and why they should. Then after Trump won, it shifted to this idea of blue states either seceding to increase the red margin in the house/senate, or gerrymandering with this "new state" idea.

Pretty sure after trump won it was the liberals of California that wanted to split the state from the union.

[Flatspriest]

Did anyone else notice that the map they want tends to sort of follow the San Andreas fault line? They could always just wait for the big one where that part of California falls into the ocean rather than creating a new state. Although, if they did split and became a 51st state, there is a simple change they could do to the electoral college. Make it where each state, regardless of size, gets one electoral vote, and that would have to be for whichever candidate won that state's popular vote. Then, a candidate would only need 26 votes to win the presidency.

[Rasulis]

I did. Because I don't want to fucking die because of a railroad crossing gate never got built because the funding went to building a multi-million dollar football stadium for a city high school.

You are thinking of Texas. This is California. We won’t even pay for a stadium for a professional football team. Let alone a high school team.

[Kaleredar]

So maybe I’m mistaken, but how much legislature do the urban centers dictate to the rural areas wanting the split? Maybe Texas is sheltered because the state as a whole is red but Austin is plenty liberal and has some weird ass rules in place that dictate only to Austin.

What is the specific reason for wanting the split? Other than generic “we are different and wanna govern ourselves ? “

Is there any specific legislation that currently harms specific rural areas ? I mean other than “letting the gays get married” and “killing babies”. Guessing high state tax might be part of it ? But can they show up to the capital and prove “this is the legislature that is harming our ability to live” I’m gonna find that hard to believe.

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Pretty sure after trump won it was the liberals of California that wanted to split the state from the union.

Something something water rights, something something rapid transit trains, something something "crushing heel of Jerry Brown."

[SinR]

New California really wants to Santa Clara, Sonoma, and Contra Costa? That has to be a joke.

Splitting California comes up quite often and never goes anywhere. This is possibly the worst split I've seen, however.

Santa Clara for Silicon Valley, Sonoma for Tourist wine country shit, and Contra Costa for ... well i dunno

[Mormolyce]

It's an attempt to game the number of Senate seats and by extension the Electoral College.

Completely your own fault for having such a shitty and easily exploited system.

Probably won't happen though, the US is allergic to change.

[Kapadons]

The rural areas of the new state would set the prices for the food they are selling to the cities of the other state. Would they charge more or less than they currently charge?

This is not at all how this works. One or even a dozen farmers don’t dictate the price of food. The market does. And California currently exports tons of agriculture to every other state, why would they charge this certain state more ? Out of spite ? That’s not how successful businesses conduct themselves.

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Something something water rights, something something rapid transit trains, something something "crushing heel of Jerry Brown."

That really didn’t help much. But did give me a starting point for google. Thanks !

[Vanyali]

So maybe I’m mistaken, but how much legislature do the urban centers dictate to the rural areas wanting the split? Maybe Texas is sheltered because the state as a whole is red but Austin is plenty liberal and has some weird ass rules in place that dictate only to Austin.

What is the specific reason for wanting the split? Other than generic “we are different and wanna govern ourselves ? “

The farmers get really grumpy that their water is regulated because other people want to use it. That's a huge part of it, actually. Up near Chico they grow uhm.. almonds, iirc, and they use a shitload of water. A lot lot lot lot lot. They're also insanely profitable (most almonds on the market come from Cali, I believe), so farmers get cranky as hell when told they can't have unlimited water because other people want to use it too, and that leads to snarky people complaining we're "watering the desert" instead of growing their profits.

Rural Norcal (and some of the cities, actually) are also insanely religious and conservative. Which means they get all sorts of pissed off that "liberal hollywood" is doing things they don't like because "freedom of religion" and they're being persecuted or some silliness.

[Elegiac]

See, here you reveal your bias. YOU don't want OUR views becoming imposed on YOU. Which is exactly what is happening to rural Californians at the moment. Put yourself in their shoes.

If they can't make a sufficient case that their 'values' can convince a majority of voters in a legitimate election, tough shit.

We're not talking civil rights here, we're talking shit like land use regulations or whatever. Minor shit that doesn't actually impact anyone severely without good reason.

[Bdatik]

Santa Clara for Silicon Valley, Sonoma for Tourist wine country shit, and Contra Costa for ... well i dunno

Yea, as Wyrt said, it's likely for tax revenue, but as you mentioned... there's no real reason for Contra Costa to be there for taxes. It's almost as if they wanted to split up the Bay Area, but forgot that by doing so, it possibly could turn "New California" blue.

[Kapadons]

The farmers get really grumpy that their water is regulated because other people want to use it. That's a huge part of it, actually. Up near Chico they grow uhm.. almonds, iirc, and they use a shitload of water. A lot lot lot lot lot. They're also insanely profitable (most almonds on the market come from Cali, I believe), so farmers get cranky as hell when told they can't have unlimited water because other people want to use it too, and that leads to snarky people complaining we're "watering the desert" instead of growing their profits.

Rural Norcal (and some of the cities, actually) are also insanely religious and conservative. Which means they get all sorts of pissed off that "liberal hollywood" is doing things they don't like because "freedom of religion" and they're being persecuted or some silliness.

California almonds are the best almonds.

Also, I thought I read that California was selling water to China ? Is that right ? Maybe something about Nestle owns a shit ton of the water Rights there ? I’ll have to go back and look at it again. Maybe I made that shit up.

[Wyrt]

California almonds are the best almonds.

Also, I thought I read that California was selling water to China ? Is that right ? Maybe something about Nestle owns a shit ton of the water Rights there ? I’ll have to go back and look at it again. Maybe I made that shit up.

We had a pretty severe drought recently and had to preserve water. Somehow*cough*Trump*cough* the farmers got the idea in their heads that the drought was made up and electing a certain president would give the farmers water again. So the farmers have been particularly bitchy of late.

[Vanyali]

California almonds are the best almonds.

Also, I thought I read that California was selling water to China ? Is that right ? Maybe something about Nestle owns a shit ton of the water Rights there ? I’ll have to go back and look at it again. Maybe I made that shit up.

Bottled water is a *whole* different can of worms, and probably they are yes. I know parks throughout the state use recycled water now for parks / public land, so farms might get the same water and have some odd restrictions on where it comes from / how much there is. The recycled water is supposed to be non-potable but I imagine it'd be fine for crops.

Also what the poster above said. The "drought isn't real" crowd is very vocal that it's made up to give all the water to the cities and we should just force people to "move out of deserts". Ignoring that a lot of area in NorCal can be classified as greenified desert, of course.

[Frogguh]

Good riddance. The parts of the state that make money should not be forced to subsidize the parts that don't.

Same reason I think no state should get any hand out from the federal government.

Blue America has to feed Red America.

LOL, yeah the blue states would have to suddenly lower all their taxes without handouts from the federal government, since they make promises they can't keep. Typical of the left, really.

[Elegiac]

LOL, yeah the blue states would have to suddenly lower all their taxes without handouts from the federal government, since they make promises they can't keep. Typical of the left, really.

You're aware that the blue states pay for the 'handouts' from the federal government, yes?

In Roman terms; we're Egypt, you're Lusitania.