Washington renames Russian embassy street after slain opposition MP

[Machismo]

Let me give you more simple allegory then.

You're standing on the top of shithole, and push down anyone who tries to climb out of it while shitting on them. And then complain "why do you all reek of shit?"

Because of actions of your country 3% support Yeltsin got re-elected in 1996, and he was the one who "appointed" Putin as his successor.

I would much prefer your country be more free. That is not something you actually want.

[Deleted]

The people that made murica are de-platforming themselves into becoming a minority. That's a failure that western style globalist capitalism is. U call preserving the nation tyranny, lol...u guys are similar in ways to anarchists. Plz don't give advice on the future when u have none. Without conservatism n nationalism, west is heading to failed states status. US is becoming northern mexico n west eu becoming north africa.


Libertarialism, that's theory that don't work in reality, omg

[Felya]

I would much prefer your country be more free. That is not something you actually want.

If he is saying Putin is good, then shouldn’t he be thanking us, if he believes we are responsible for it? It seems to me he is blaming US for Russia’s problem, while defending the actual thing we did to make it so bad. It’s bizarre...

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The people that made murica are de-platforming themselves into becoming a minority. That's a failure that western style globalist capitalism is. U call preserving the nation tyranny, lol...u guys are similar in ways to anarchists. Plz don't give advice on the future when u have none. Without conservatism n nationalism, west is heading to failed states status. US is becoming northern mexico n west eu becoming north africa.

Libertarialism, that's theory that don't work in reality, omg

I take credit for causing the above aneurism!

[Shalcker]

I would much prefer your country be more free. That is not something you actually want.

It is impossible while US maintains hegemony.

Because US keeps supporting murderous autocrats when it fits them, then break countries that don't toe the line at any sign of weakness.

Good that we don't have to wait that long now though.

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If he is saying Putin is good, then shouldn’t he be thanking us, if he believes we are responsible for it? It seems to me he is blaming US for Russia’s problem, while defending the actual thing we did to make it so bad. It’s bizarre...

I'm not defending Putin at all.

I defend standard of proof and certain actions with which i agree. I disagree on plenty of other points.

[Felya]

I'm not defending Putin at all.

I defend standard of proof and certain actions with which i agree. I disagree on plenty of other points.

This is exactly what I mean... you don’t defend him at all... just when you agree with his actions. All you had to do, regardless of the truth, is say that you don’t defend him at all. But... you just couldn’t help your self, to still toss in that you defend certain actions. At least tell me you recognize it’s hapoening... it’s pretty fucked up for you to respond with an example of what I’m saying, while saying I’m wrong.

Just say I’m wrong, control your need to be a Putin defender. That second sentence was completely unnecessary and contradicts your first sentence.

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There is nothing wrong in admitting that you are defending someone, while you are actually doing it. In fact, you denying it, makes seem like you are either conniving or blind.

[Shalcker]

This is exactly what I mean... you don’t defend him at all... just when you agree with his actions. All you had to do, regardless of the truth, is say that you don’t defend him at all. But... you just couldn’t help your self, to still toss in that you defend certain actions. At least tell me you recognize it’s hapoening... it’s pretty fucked up for you to respond with an example of what I’m saying, while saying I’m wrong.

You have to follow your interests. And sometimes even murderous autocrat can do something right for his own reasons.

There is no point in condemning everything; support things toward which you're supportive, and condemn things toward which you aren't.

That is quite consistent position as far as i see; i like nuance in my world view rather then black and white, heroes and villains.

Just say I’m wrong, control your need to be a Putin defender. That second sentence was completely unnecessary and contradicts your first sentence.

I defend my own views; sometimes those happen to align with what Putin does (even if he doesn't necessarily wanted whatever he did), sometimes they don't. I posted plenty of Russian opposition articles too when i agreed with them.

Western Media stories quite consistently dredge up stuff "done by Putin/Duma" with which i happen to agree rather then condemn or can see where it came from other then "murderous autocrat doing murderous autocrat things"; simple and understandable disconnect between Western media/audience and Russian needs/wants/common sense.

[Machismo]

It is impossible while US maintains hegemony.

Because US keeps supporting murderous autocrats when it fits them, then break countries that don't toe the line at any sign of weakness.

Good that we don't have to wait that long now though.

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I'm not defending Putin at all.

I defend standard of proof and certain actions with which i agree. I disagree on plenty of other points.

It's impossible for your government to not restrict free speech, freedom of the press, and rights for gay people, because of America? Give me a fucking break. Stop blaming others, because your government is correct.

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If he is saying Putin is good, then shouldn’t he be thanking us, if he believes we are responsible for it? It seems to me he is blaming US for Russia’s problem, while defending the actual thing we did to make it so bad. It’s bizarre...

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I take credit for causing the above aneurism!

It's somehow the fault of the United States, because he supports a corrupt government.

[Shalcker]

It's impossible for your government to not restrict free speech, freedom of the press, and rights for gay people, because of America? Give me a fucking break. Stop blaming others, because your government is correct.

Here is what Western leaders given us as example in 1993:

...
It was impossible to determine the final death toll, although the authorities quoted medical officials as saying that 62 people were confirmed killed, and 400 wounded, in Sunday's assault on the television centre.

Western leaders, warned in advance of the assault, promptly declared support, but urged a speedy return to constitutionality amid fears that the Russian leader could become a political hostage to the armed forces.

"It is clear that the opposition forces started the conflict, and President Yeltsin had no other alternative but to try to restore order,' the US president, Bill Clinton, said.

"The US supported Yeltsin because he is Russia's democratically-elected leader," he said. "I have no reason to doubt the personal commitment that President Yeltsin made to let the Russian people decide their own future in elections.'

In Blackpool, the Prime Minister, John Major, said: "What is now necessary is that normal order is restored and that the Russians move forward to the elections they planned in December."

In Brussels, the European Commission announced emergency medical aid of 300,000 ecus (around £235,000) for those wounded in the fighting.

China was the only major power not to back Mr Yeltsin. "We are deeply concerned about the recent bloodshed in Moscow," the Chinese foreign ministry said in a statement.

"As a friendly neighbour, we hope to see an end to the conflict and a proper solution to the current situation in the interest of the stability, unity and economic recovery.'"

Here - West supporting murderous, corrupt Russian autocrat. You reap what you sow - West said killing people to keep your hold on power is fine, Russians listened.

[Machismo]

Here is what Western leaders given us as example in 1993:

...
It was impossible to determine the final death toll, although the authorities quoted medical officials as saying that 62 people were confirmed killed, and 400 wounded, in Sunday's assault on the television centre.

Western leaders, warned in advance of the assault, promptly declared support, but urged a speedy return to constitutionality amid fears that the Russian leader could become a political hostage to the armed forces.

"It is clear that the opposition forces started the conflict, and President Yeltsin had no other alternative but to try to restore order,' the US president, Bill Clinton, said.

"The US supported Yeltsin because he is Russia's democratically-elected leader," he said. "I have no reason to doubt the personal commitment that President Yeltsin made to let the Russian people decide their own future in elections.'

In Blackpool, the Prime Minister, John Major, said: "What is now necessary is that normal order is restored and that the Russians move forward to the elections they planned in December."

In Brussels, the European Commission announced emergency medical aid of 300,000 ecus (around £235,000) for those wounded in the fighting.

China was the only major power not to back Mr Yeltsin. "We are deeply concerned about the recent bloodshed in Moscow," the Chinese foreign ministry said in a statement.

"As a friendly neighbour, we hope to see an end to the conflict and a proper solution to the current situation in the interest of the stability, unity and economic recovery.'"

Here - West supporting murderous, corrupt Russian autocrat. You reap what you sow - West said killing people to keep your hold on power is fine, Russians listened.

So, why is it the fault of the United States that your government limits free speech, freedom of the press, and gay rights?

I'm not asking why your government supports a murderous autocrat, I'm asking why you personally continuously defend one. You have yet to recognize the different between me, and my government from 25 years ago...

[Shalcker]

So, why is it the fault of the United States that your government limits free speech, freedom of the press, and gay rights?

US support is the reason we got murderous autocrats in power; the rest follows from that.

And we decriminalized homosexuality before you did, so there is that.

I'm not asking why your government supports a murderous autocrat, I'm asking why you personally continuously defend one.

Because no murderous autocrat does murderous autocrat things 100% of the time. He still needs healthcare, he still needs army, he still needs ministry of interior, he still needs to provide government workers and pensioners at least somewhat passable monetary support, and he still needs to have profitable enterprises to let his buddies syphon off some of their profits, as well as to balance country budget to keep doing his murderous autocrat things and stay in power rather then be swept by wave of public discontent or be undermined by his enemies abroad.

You have yet to recognize the different between me, and my government from 25 years ago...

You have yet to recognize that agreeing on any action doesn't mean total support for murderous autocracy.

[Citizen T]

Let's get this back on topic

[Keeponrage]

Well, for starters, it's better than actually approving of such things.

approving and trying to find a reason of "why it is that way" are different things.

Then I do it with voting,

Shalcker is gonna vote for Putin's current top rival - Grudinin. So will I do.

spreading awareness of political strife, highlighting issues, pushing libertarianism,

same bla-blaing as your verbal condemnation diarrhea

and even going so far as to participate in lawsuits to protect civil rights.

which? Like no free access to higher education, free medical care, free and accessible kindergartens? Or you picked an easy way of fighting for gay rights in US who already adopted gay marriages and a Law is on your side anyways?

[Felya]

Law is on your side anyways?

Damn you law!!! How will you feel about a sky scraper with a name of an American President in giant gold letters, in the heart of Moscow’s traffic web? Better or worse than this Street name change?

[Machismo]

US support is the reason we got murderous autocrats in power; the rest follows from that.

And we decriminalized homosexuality before you did, so there is that.

Because no murderous autocrat does murderous autocrat things 100% of the time. He still needs healthcare, he still needs army, he still needs ministry of interior, he still needs to provide government workers and pensioners at least somewhat passable monetary support, and he still needs to have profitable enterprises to let his buddies syphon off some of their profits, as well as to balance country budget to keep doing his murderous autocrat things and stay in power rather then be swept by wave of public discontent or be undermined by his enemies abroad.

You have yet to recognize that agreeing on any action doesn't mean total support for murderous autocracy.

You have been electing Putin into office for a very long time, you don't get to blame that on The United States. You don't get to blame your disdain for free speech, freedom of the press, and gay rights on other people, that's on you.

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approving and trying to find a reason of "why it is that way" are different things.



Shalcker is gonna vote for Putin's current top rival - Grudinin. So will I do.



same bla-blaing as your verbal condemnation diarrhea



which? Like no free access to higher education, free medical care, free and accessible kindergartens? Or you picked an easy way of fighting for gay rights in US who already adopted gay marriages and a Law is on your side anyways?

What's wrong with fighting for free speech, freedom of the press, and gay rights?

At the end of the day, a group of city politicians trolled the shit out of Putin and his supporters, by naming a street after one of the victims of Putin's autocratic regime. It's fucking hilarious.

[Shalcker]

You have been electing Putin into office for a very long time, you don't get to blame that on The United States.

We get to and we do. Not sorry that you don't get to tell us how to interpret our history :P

You don't get to blame your disdain for free speech, freedom of the press, and gay rights on other people, that's on you.

Those are your values, not anything close to "universal" values. Made for your society, polished from the turd it was into somewhat shiny ball by multiple generations. Still got shit inside though.

If you want your values to spread pay up for others to put up with your shit.

[cubby]

We get to and we do. Not sorry that you don't get to tell us how to interpret our history :P

I'm sorry, but are you - /snort! - saying that it's the United States' fault that you people keep "electing" Putin? Because that is beyond adorable.

[Machismo]

We get to and we do. Not sorry that you don't get to tell us how to interpret our history :P

Those are your values, not anything close to "universal" values. Made for your society, polished from the turd it was into somewhat shiny ball by multiple generations. Still got shit inside though.

If you want your values to spread pay up for others to put up with your shit.

Your country oppresses people all on its own. Your leader has political enemies harassed, murders, and imprisoned, you don't get to blame that on the United States.

Your government restricts free speech, freedom of the press, and gay rights. You don't get to blame your government's choice to oppress on the United States.

[Shalcker]

I'm sorry, but are you - /snort! - saying that it's the United States' fault that you people keep "electing" Putin? Because that is beyond adorable.

Your support of Russian murderous autocrats, Yeltsin or even Putin initially, shows you "values" hollow - at least on the level of people who actually get to make decisions like that.

But then somehow you still think "ordinary Russians" should share your view on every position (which changes every half-decade as your "ruling party" flips and chases your societal trends to drum up support), or else they are "Putin's apologists".

It is quite obvious that Americans define "free speech" as "speech we approve of" (and any consequences are fine if it is speech you don't approve of), and are perfectly fine with corporate censorship too.

Well, as in US corporations control government rather then vice versa in Russia, it makes a lot of sense for them to use corporate rather then government censorship tools; that doesn't actually create "free society" though.

[Machismo]

Your support of Russian murderous autocrats, Yeltsin or even Putin initially, shows you "values" hollow - at least on the level of people who actually get to make decisions like that.

But then somehow you still think "ordinary Russians" should share your view on every position (which changes every half-decade as your "ruling party" flips and chases your societal trends to drum up support), or else they are "Putin's apologists".

You are supporting and defending him NOW. Seriously, take some fucking responsibility for yourself. You support restricting gay rights. You support restricting freedom of the press. You support restricting free speech.

Are you really trying to blame your beliefs on an American government from decades ago? Jesus, you are embarrassing yourself.

[Shalcker]

Your country oppresses people all on its own. Your leader has political enemies harassed, murders, and imprisoned, you don't get to blame that on the United States.

Your government openly supported it. That is all that needs to be known. And it didn't change one bit in that regard too.

So you don't get to lecture us. Your "values" are for internal consumption only; and even there their value is dubious.

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You are supporting and defending him NOW. Seriously, take some fucking responsibility for yourself. You support restricting gay rights. You support restricting freedom of the press. You support restricting free speech.

That isn't what i said; try actually understanding what is written to you.

I don't think gay rights should be extended to the level you pushed to in your society after decades of changing public opinions about it.

Wait a few decades and we might get there; or perhaps you'll devolve back to gay-bashing, also a possibility.

Societal progress isn't one-way road, and there are many twists and turns along the way.