T20/t21

[Deleted]

Is it just me, or is t20 still more than viable, even in mythic?
Don't get me wrong, t21 sims slightly higher on paper since I got nearer to a gs of 960.

[Accendor]

If you have both sets at the same itemlevel they are actually very close, yes. The higher the gap, the more 21 pulls ahead obv.

[Deleted]

On myth Kingaroth T20 performs much better.

set is crap (for raiding ofc)

[Veiled Shadow]

On myth Kingaroth T20 performs much better.

set is crap (for raiding ofc)

No, it doesn't. You can easily play a T21 CB setup on kin'garoth.

[Quag]

if you have both sets equal ilvl they both support completely different playstyles, with t20 favoring a more burst oriented chaos blades do all of your damage inside this window and then wait for meta to reset playstyle, where as t21 removes the majority of your burst in favour of more sustained dps where you can spend a lot more of your time in meta thanks to eyebeam.

Neither spec is rocket science to play well, and both are relatively competitive at equal ilvl. the shorter the fight, the more that t20 will appear to shine, but the biggest issue will be keeping both sets equal ilvl. if you are comparing a full 900ivl t20 to a 965 ilvl t21 its not a fair comparision, and if you have a 965 full set of t20... your probably one of the only ones.

TLDR. both sets support different playstyles. If close in ivl play whatever you prefer, chances are you will use t21 once the ivl gap gets to big

[Svisalith]

On myth Kingaroth T20 performs much better.

set is crap (for raiding ofc)

Nonsense, vast majority of the top mythic kingaroth logs are T21 CB. https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...ter&spec=Havoc

It's a solid DPS boost for a set, bigger than t20 in general (especially considering that t20 has to swap stats and talents which causes a hit before being able to use the set properly) and drops at a higher item level. T21 is a bit ahead on ST (single digit % when comparing mythic t20 to heroic t21) and in another world for cleave and AOE.

It doesn't perform badly just because you don't like it.

[Deleted]

No, it doesn't. You can easily play a T21 CB setup on kin'garoth.

Ofc you can. You can also play T19 with CB setup there. But its not opitmal. Top 10 CB setups there were with T20.

[Svisalith]

Ofc you can. You can also play T19 with CB setup there. But its not opitmal. Top 10 CB setups there were with T20.

The top 5 and 80% of the top 50 logs are T21, a few Demonic but almost all CB. They're not so far apart that it's impossible to log with t20, at least not until mythic and mythic wf 21 is more common to push some more t20's off the page

[Veiled Shadow]

Ofc you can. You can also play T19 with CB setup there. But its not opitmal. Top 10 CB setups there were with T20.

There are 2 logs in the top 10 at the moment using T20. . .

[Artemol]

t20 is better for mostly ALL the fights. Being ~20 itemlvls lower than ur t21

If u happen to still farm ToS and get 960+ pieces, those pieces will remain ur bis slots.

[Measure]

t20 is better for mostly ALL the fights. Being ~20 itemlvls lower than ur t21

If u happen to still farm ToS and get 960+ pieces, those pieces will remain ur bis slots.

If you think 20 ilvls lower t20 is better then you're probably playing very poorly with t21.

[Saverem]

The T20 2 set bonus is still very strong. In a perfect world, you'd use 2 pc T20 and 4 pc T21.

It just sucks that arguably our best tanking leggo takes up a leg slot.


Edit: NM you talking about Havoc. DHs have TWO spec guys, l2be specific.

[Sylvaeres]

Ofc you can. You can also play T19 with CB setup there. But its not opitmal. Top 10 CB setups there were with T20.

you like making up numbers I see

[Deleted]

The top 5 and 80% of the top 50 logs are T21, a few Demonic but almost all CB. They're not so far apart that it's impossible to log with t20, at least not until mythic and mythic wf 21 is more common to push some more t20's off the page

Wait wait what ? Did I miss something?
Is T21 with CB actually an option?

[Shirofune]

Wait wait what ? Did I miss something?
Is T21 with CB actually an option?

For Kin'garoth, it is. Due to damage to adds (extra damage taken). Being a bursty fight it can be good there if you can manage to get reliable 2 min metas with shoulders.

That's also why a lot of parses are T20 there.

[Deleted]

For Kin'garoth, it is. Due to damage to adds (extra damage taken). Being a bursty fight it can be good there if you can manage to get reliable 2 min metas with shoulders.

That's also why a lot of parses are T20 there.

Ah okay. Just never considered T21 with CB there because I have okayisch TFed T20.

But we obviously are in a strange situation anyway.

[Svisalith]

Wait wait what ? Did I miss something?
Is T21 with CB actually an option?

Yes, it became the highest performing option for CB back when they made the set 40% haste. The 15% haste change made it not clearly best but 25% brought it back.

The prevalence of t20 on the logs still is because old tiers have a bit higher fury/sec so less gear requirement to make DOG work on a strict 2 min timer and because a lot of people don't know about or are not proficient with CB reborn style.