The Alliance defeated Garrosh at the end of Mist.

[Deleted]

Garrosh had dark shamans torment elementals from miles around they couldn't hear thrall at that moment, so thralls elemental powers where kind useless Garrosh knocked him out like in few seconds.

That's wrong. He had his elemental powers which is what we were discussing to begin with.

After Garrosh taunting him for having twisted the elements Thrall manages to call to them by casting a Thunderstorm that dispells the void corruption while yelling " Never powerless Garrosh. And never alone".

He afterwards is still no match for a old god power infused Garrosh, but regardless that would happen just the same with Varian.

[Terongor]

That's wrong. He had his elemental powers which is what we were discussing to begin with.

After Garrosh taunting him for having twisted the elements Thrall manages to call to them by casting a Thunderstorm that dispells the void corruption while yelling " Never powerless Garrosh. And never alone".

He afterwards is still no match for a old god power infused Garrosh, but regardless that would happen just the same with Varian.

Thrall might have being able to call little bit of elemental power but because he didn't use any against Garrosh it seems he couldn't use majorly espicially when you look what he did in cata books.

Also on nearly all lore sources it sas thrall is unable call spirits to help him because of the dark shamans.

[Deleted]

So we've had the Old Horde, the Horde, the Dark Horde, the Fel Horde, the True Horde and the Iron Horde. Am I missing any?

The Elf Horde

just wait for it...

just wait...

[Maljinwo]

The Elf Horde

just wait for it...

just wait...

Isn't that what we have now?

[Deleted]

Isn't that what we have now?

Not in a full extend

[Terongor]

I don't think Anduin's connection to the light was as strong then, he also wasn't wearing any armor either.


True, but we don't know how much power it actually provides. You drain the fragment of the fragment into the staff, the power already drained from leishen through out the fight.

Vereesa's never got close to any of her sisters ranks, or Lorthemar, she was a random ranger mook, and she joined recently to fight orc remnants.

Lorthemar isn't a "spell breaker" he was an Sunwell guard, and uses different abilities, a mix of spellbreaker/ranger, so its a mix there, I misspoke on that part.


as for Gallywix, he was fighting just fine despite his weight in one of the blizz short stories.


As for the whole elite guard thing, pretty sure those guys are labeled footmen, not elite soldiers on the Alliance anyways, and there was Kor'kron that left Garrosh.

Well yeah gallywix is a good fighter but if alliance manages to start destroying Orgri (meaning horde thrive them out) the horde has to retreat at that point and gallywix physical build might not be best for that.

Thanks abou that knowledge for vereesa.
Handful of kor'kron that left him atleast what was said in warcrimes but their numbers don't make a real fighting force.

Yes it is a fragment of an fragment but that machine was connected still to ra-den at that point it still should be quit huge.

Lor'themar became chief comander of the farstriders who were tasked in watching over the sunwell which still makes him a farstrider.

[Verdugo]

nothing can beat the faction that has orcs in it. just when you think they cant possibly have any more orcs left after so many are dead it turns out they had like 6 more armies surrounding all your cities. thats the power of the orc cloning machine.

This perfectly shows how Blizzard copied the Warhammer orcs but forgot the little detail why they are so fucking numerous.

[Arrashi]

This perfectly shows how Blizzard copied the Warhammer orcs but forgot the little detail why they are so fucking numerous.

Who knows ? Maybe caverns under orgrimmar are now full of garroshs fungal offspring.

[Zulkhan]

Defecting from a faction means you are no longer part of that faction. The Alliance won the war and defeated the horde. And horde defectors helped on the side.

You won't get any horde fans to admit it though.

You got it the other way. It's Garrosh who effectively defected the Horde by officially creating his own "True Horde". The rebels represented the standard Horde, the one Garrosh rejected for not aligning with his deranged idealism.

So we've had the Old Horde, the Horde, the Dark Horde, the Fel Horde, the True Horde and the Iron Horde. Am I missing any?

There's the Horde of Draenor too, the one led by Ner'zhul in the aftermath of the Second War.

And just to give a name to every and each Horde, the current Horde should be called "New Horde".

My points was those orc grunts behind thrall and them didn't have the experience of Kor'kron. Most Thralls times Kor'kron even sided with Garrosh and they where the elites from the orcs.

The Kor'kron stopped being an absolute elite force the moment its numbers increased drammatically and basically turned into Garrosh's personal legion of zealots. Sure, they were heavily equipped and trained but were not chosen based on mere potential alone, new Kor'kron members were chosen based on their race (they have been all orcs between Cataclysm and MoP) and, eventually, the level of zealotry and blind obedience towards Garrosh's persona rather than the "Warchief" as a political entity. That's why Garrosh favored them even above the Horde player, despite the player character being the most competent of all the elites.

[Hyral]

You got it the other way. It's Garrosh who effectively defected the Horde by officially creating his own "True Horde". The rebels represented the standard Horde, the one Garrosh rejected for not aligning with his deranged idealism.

You disagreed with the Warchief and his rule and defected from it to change it by force. It doesn't matter what reasons you had to not like Garrosh and what he was doing or how you feel about what the horde means to you and to him, he was the Warchief and you defected from the faction because you didn't like that. That's how revolutions work.

[huth]

There's the Horde of Draenor too, the one led by Ner'zhul in the aftermath of the Second War.

And just to give a name to every and each Horde, the current Horde should be called "New Horde".

That would have been Thrall's horde. We're probably at the Neo Horde or the New New Horde now.

Or maybe the Blessed Mess, Forsaken Horde.

[Deleted]

No,Alliance should be thanking us for not joining Garrosh Horde.(Yes many races would be treated diffrent I assume but atleast we could put blue dogs to sleep)

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

Jaina asks Varian to destroy the horde => he must have the pôwer to do so.

Alternatively, that bitch be crazy.

Tension and drama when Varian walks towards the horde leader => confirms that he very well has the power to annihilate them

And then he backs down like a little bitch when he sees Vol'Jin standing there. Confirms that Varian was all hat and no cattle.

If the heroes who defeated Garrosh were on the Horde side how could Varian threaten to annihilae the Horde?

Saber Rattling. Kim Jong Un does the same shit all the time.

How could Jaina tell Varian to pull the trigger with such mighty heroes present in the room ?

Again, that bitch be crazy

After all the Champions of Azeroth are canonically even stronger than Varian himself

The Horde also have Champions of Azeroth

Quite clearly what Blizzard tried to tell us is that the Alliance did all the job in SoO and gave the Horde their freedom back, say thank you hordies

Quite clearly what Blizzard tried to tell us is that the Alliance needs the help of Half the Horde just to take a single Horde City. Say thank you Alliance.

[Kieldon]

Garrosh was defeated by 10-25 man group of random passing individuals seeking better equipment and his bloody shoulders. Most of them without any faction pride.

Simple as that :P

[Aquamonkey]

That would have been Thrall's horde. We're probably at the Neo Horde or the New New Horde now.

Or maybe the Blessed Mess, Forsaken Horde.

It's the Family Horde. https://wow.gamepedia.com/Quest:The_Horde_Is_Family

[Schattenlied]

Method killed him first, as Horde.

This matters exactly 0% in lore.

[Deleted]

Alliance can't do shit. First of all, yall need more PvE skills to begin with. And that is just one of many things you lack....

[Shibito]

This matters exactly 0% in lore.

And in the lore horde AND the alliance killed garrosh but whatever floats your boat

[Jastall]

nothing can beat the faction that has orcs in it. just when you think they cant possibly have any more orcs left after so many are dead it turns out they had like 6 more armies surrounding all your cities. thats the power of the orc cloning machine.

To be fair, every race is like that to a greater or lesser extent. There's plenty of Blood Elves/High Elves around despite them losing 90% of their population, then splintering into several factions which all waged war on something at some point or another. There's more than plenty of humans despite every single human kingdom having been sacked, invaded and/or razed at least once in the last decade or so. There's plenty of Bilgewater Goblins despite them being the scattered refugees of one island. There's plenty of Gnomes despite their sole city being nuked. Plenty of Draenei despite them fitting in one ship before they landed.

Not to mention that both factions have been involved in perpetual warfare for the last 20 years or so with no sign of casualties making even close to a dent. It makes 0 sense that, after a conflict as cataclysmic as the one against the Legion, a medieval society would have enough soldiers to have a go at a global war a few years after, but it's how Warcraft works, there's always as many soldiers as the plot demands.

[MikeBogina]

Always find it weird that when a fictional character says something, or does something... fans take it as fact and can't imagine the character being *gasp* wrong or overconfident.

For every kill, the horde was demoralized for killing a brother or sister, and for every kill the Alliance was cheering for killing an enemy, but doesn't mean the alliance would have the advantage of beating the Horde at all. You have Sylvanas who can have her Valkyr go through and ress so many of the newly dead and you're now stuck in and underground bunker with lava and the most powerful shaman as your enemy with others... good luck getting out alive.