Lightforged Draenei racials, why?

[Super Kami Dende]

Kinda redundant to Priests who already have PW:S.

Yes. Because PW:S has 100% up time in all aspects of the game

[Deleted]

So a newcomer starts the game. What is there for humans? What is there for night elves? What is there for orcs? It's like they have to play the game to see the story...? How is that different from void elves?

Fucking mmoc logic at work right here. You sound like the guy who was angry at worgen druids, that "dog turning into a cat" doesn't make sense, despite "cows turning into cats" were there all along, but that's fine for some reason.

I dont get this worgen nonsense you write about sorry

About any other race you can atleast google something (more than 3 sentences for sure) and you have shitloads of lore about them basically everywhere. For example if you start as human you get familiar with their architecture, attitude, problems of commoners, that they have problems with bandits and stuff. Can you tell me what you know about void elves from playing the game, besides Alleria consuming dark ball in one cinematic? And compare that to what you know about nightborne or highmountain or zandalari trolls. How is that different? Currently? Are you kidding me? Is that even serious question?

Lightforged draenei and void elves scream of lazy design. Like "shit, pvp and raiding scene is horde-centric, we have to give them cool subraces otherwise there would be constant bitching about it...okay...now alliance...uuuugh what is there...". You can directly compare lightforged draenei to highmountain tauren, which one si better developed (or developed at all) at this point? And this is supposed to be the best selling point for alliance players? You must be kidding me

[Louz]

I dont get this worgen nonsense you write about sorry

About any other race you can atleast google something (more than 3 sentences for sure) and you have shitloads of lore about them basically everywhere. For example if you start as human you get familiar with their architecture, attitude, problems of commoners, that they have problems with bandits and stuff. Can you tell me what you know about void elves from playing the game, besides Alleria consuming dark ball in one cinematic? And compare that to what you know about nightborne or highmountain or zandalari trolls. How is that different? Currently? Are you kidding me? Is that even serious question?

Lightforged draenei and void elves scream of lazy design. Like "shit, pvp and raiding scene is horde-centric, we have to give them cool subraces otherwise there would be constant bitching about it...okay...now alliance...uuuugh what is there...". You can directly compare lightforged draenei to highmountain tauren, which one si better developed (or developed at all) at this point? And this is supposed to be the best selling point for alliance players? You must be kidding me

Yes, because everyone goes and starts googling some deep lore from fan wiki websites about a game they're about to get, not get right into it and pick this cool looking dude/chick.

But yes, thanks for proving my point, "For example if you start as human you get familiar with their architecture, attitude, problems of commoners, that they have problems with bandits and stuff."

Well, maybe roll a void elf and get familiar with their architecture, attitude etc. etc.?

"The worgen nonsense" is ineed a nonsense, but nothing I made up, it's something I read on forums back then when they announced worgen and that they will have druids as an option.
It's a perfect analogy to what you say, that void elves are nonsense cause you know nothing about them beforehand - as if you did with any other race when they were first introduced. You make it sound as if there was some inherent knowledge of every other race EXCEPT void elves, and therefore they are nonsense.

You see, the only difference between them and the rest is that the other races (new) were introduced before being playable, meanwhile void elves' introduction comes with them being playable. That is the only difference.

Another example - dark iron dwarves. Now they're okay cause they were around since vanilla. Story happened, fast forward, they're playable.
But what if they were playable right from the very start, there was nothing about them in W3, therefore they would be completely new, would that be a nonsense too then?

[Marrilaife]

It's a weaker version of their delayed aoe skill, the little blast after you die will do absolutely nothing. Lightforged draenei would be the last race you take into arena because they basically don't have racials.

The blast they cast has a 3 sec delay, in most pvp scenarios the opponent can dodge it unless you burn a hard 3+ sec cc on them. Kinda lame. The blast when you die... well most arena teams surrender when they have less guys alive left than the opponent as they consider it unwinnable, maybe there are some cases where it would help, but that's what I got from watching streams and tournaments (I don't really pvp myself, so maybe in more casual pvp it's not the case?)

Considering VE's other racial is literal "no pushback when casting spells" I'd say all their other racials could be garbage and they'd still have one of the best set of racials in game.

Which is only of use in pvp. And due to it they lack any dps increase (so no 1% haste, no berserking, nothing like that). I don't pvp so hard to say how much of advantage it's there, but in pve I have a mage alt and I barely notice any pushback ever, be it in raids or in m+. You'd need to be meleed in the face to see it. Which mostly happens in pvp and maybe in soloing.

Demonbane- Level scaling is in play so pretty much a LFD can camp at Felwood. BC zones are packed with demon class creatures. I can clearly see they would ding much faster speciallly with herloom set.

XP from killing mobs (levelling through mob grinding) was always slower than questing between your dungeons. I sincerely doubt this would add significant amount overall, as you get 20% extra from a mob kill, and xp per mob kill is already fairly low. Panda would gain more bonus XP from their racial assuming you park it in rested zones between sessions. And unfortunately, those are the type of racials you only use during short period of levelling, and then they take the slot and don't help at max level. Tbh same can be said about all the profession racials unless you consciously pair the race with the matching profession... unfortunately my blacksmith is my monk so I can't even racechange it to Lightforged to benefit from the racial. No idea why all other allied races can be monks but not Lightforged.

[Every Pwny]

judging from the bfa demo, around 2k is a non-crit templar's verdict. the blast does like 1k damage and healing.

that's enough to make those butthole-clenchingly close fights a little more interesting.

obviously it's not as good as something like void elf. but it's still more interesting than almost any of the base races have.

The damage needs to be doing way more for the CD length. Right now it doesn't even move the opponents health bar if they are sticking around for it. It's interesting but massively terrible, right now their suicide bombing racial and their active racial are purely cosmetic and won't effect anything in pvp unless they are massively tuned up. It doesn't even do that much against creatures while leveling and they don't have reduced damage taken like players.

The blast they cast has a 3 sec delay, in most pvp scenarios the opponent can dodge it unless you burn a hard 3+ sec cc on them. Kinda lame. The blast when you die... well most arena teams surrender when they have less guys alive left than the opponent as they consider it unwinnable, maybe there are some cases where it would help, but that's what I got from watching streams and tournaments (I don't really pvp myself, so maybe in more casual pvp it's not the case?)

Yep, the extremely long delay also makes it useless even if it did damage. Regular Draenei are very weak in arena as it is, but lightforge are going to be even worse, the hot heal can come in handy once in a while, but a low damage long delayed aoe will never be useful unless it's doing like half of someones health bar if they are caught in in. Lightforged have the worst racials in the game by far.

[Marrilaife]

The damage needs to be doing way more for the CD length.

Yep, since it's delayed and put into an area (not homing missile towards your target) it has several drawbacks like ability to be dodged, mobs moved out of it, mobs dying before it lands and so on, "boring" racials like 2% movement speed or 1% haste are just 100% reliable so win over something that only works if x and y condition is fulfilled.

Unless the other one is overtuned to count in the fact it won't always fit into perfect case scenario. But imagine if it was, people would complain about unfair pvp burst.

Regular Draenei are very weak in arena as it is

They're also weak in pve because their dps racial is some amount of primary stat and Blizzard fucked up stat scaling atm for most classes your primary stat is your worst or second worst stat (I think all classes except monk and rogue, and Draenei can't even be Rogues), so the primary stat increase is worse than 1% haste or crit. But at least it's something that works 100% of the time. Lightforged and Void Elves have stuff that only works / applies under very specific circumstances.

[derpkitteh]

The damage needs to be doing way more for the CD length. Right now it doesn't even move the opponents health bar if they are sticking around for it. It's interesting but massively terrible, right now their suicide bombing racial and their active racial are purely cosmetic and won't effect anything in pvp unless they are massively tuned up. It doesn't even do that much against creatures while leveling and they don't have reduced damage taken like players.

i mean, this is a racial after all. no racial's going to be made to do very significant damage. light's judgement ability crits around 5k, that will be higher than a templar's verdict crit with the BfA number crunch. the death bomb being around 1 to 1.5k isn't entirely unsubstantial either, but it is a bit weak.

[Deleted]

"Brilliant."

Did you get hired as the Void elf propaganda chief?

He has a point and you just don't get it or are anti-women.
The Void Elves are the most intellectual World of Warcraft-Race.

[Gaidax]

First worry: scaling. So far racials like touch of the grave or blood fury did not keep up to the percentage racials (like 1% haste / crit / versa or berserking) because they don't scale well at max level.

Second worry: delayed blast. In the world of gogogo if you don't use something exactly this second but it has 2.5 sec delay, rip you. Either as a pulling tank (dps won't wait, they'll go ahead and pull) or as a dps (tanks tend to kite mobs and not stand in 1 spot with them, either in daily hc because they rush forwards, or in m+ because kiting is a strat to minimize incoming damage or negate affixes like sanguine).

I think you are incorrect and I expect that racial to have a lot of cheesing potential ranging from the obvious AoE bust nuke to bosses/encounters with vulnerability phases or external buffs where you can time this to hit right there.

It's not same thing as touch or even blood fury, because this is compressed damage right here and AoE on top of that and that's kinda valuable in a lot of situations. If you look at its spellpower coefficient and translate it to current numbers that's a good 3-6 million damage AoE nuke depending on crits/procs - it's not ooOOooOOOooO amazing, but tossing this into some clump is definitely going to do some nice burst. Delay is also not an issue really, just makes timing and considering other factors a bit more important.

Finally it's a ranged nuke, it can be a factor in cases melee is not an option.

I expect it to be undertuned in ST situations exactly because of its cheese potential in all other situations. It's like those shitty AoE trinkets that generally suck, but have their obscene moments and with M+ continuing to be a thing and AoE being important there, I expect it to be a good racial.

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On the other hand... rest of the racials are really shit. Holy resistance? Really? Maybe in 10.3.5 when we will be fighting an army of crazed Naaru or shit like that it may be useful, meanwhile it was a salad of fire, shadow and some nature/arcane most of the time, holy damage is barely a thing in PvE. I mean all similar racials are meh anyway, but at least something like Shadow Resistance is actually somewhat does something considering every other moustache twirler has some shadow based nukes one way or another. I mean they could have made it Holy and Fire... at least that.

On-death thing? Well, don't think you really want this to be a thing.

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As a side note, Horde getting another AoE CC racial is making me raise eyebrow.

[Kithelle]

Am I the only one that actually believes that the Lightforged have decent (and potentially strong) racial abilities?

Light's Judgement - AoE strike for everything within five yards that has a 40 yard range? That's a solid pack pulling tool for any tank out there or a good extra AoE ability for any spec without strong AoE abilities.

Forge of Light - Free Blacksmithing forge anywhere alongside +10 Blacksmithing? That's nice. We don't know what else that forge has. If it has some sort of repair ability (which we don't know), LF Draenei become an extremely solid class for raid progression via a racial.

Demonbane - Kind of useless, sure. But could be solid for leveling through some content, particularly in Felwood and Legion.

Holy Resistance - If we're fighting Naaru and/or the Light in the future, this is solid. As is, it's as strong as any other resistance, just in the direction of Holy.

Light's Reckoning - Small numbers, sure...but that extra burst of healing/damage may wind up giving the difference between a 0% wipe and a kill.

Pretty much?

Light's Judgement is useless for PvP in a faction war expansion

Holy Resistance is kinda useless with such little Holy Damage dealing mobs/classes.

Light's Reckoning is meh...especially if you're a ranged character.

Really just rather meh...Highmoutain has some really great ones...they got rid of useless Nightborne ones and gave them a powerful one.

[derpkitteh]

they got rid of useless Nightborne ones and gave them a powerful one.

that i am angry about.

yeah, they would have had more racials than everyone else. but these were effectively toys, there was no sense in removing them.

[Kithelle]

that i am angry about.

yeah, they would have had more racials than everyone else. but these were effectively toys, there was no sense in removing them.

I donn't care about the number...just that they got a pretty nice racial when the faction is filled with nice racials.

They get a AoE slow while Void Elf's special ability is just a proc that increases damage and healing by 5% for 12 seconds, feels like the put no effort into it at all.