Legion is over... What to kill, what to keep?

[Deleted]

Keep: M+
Kill: Everything else that was introduced with Legion.
Fire: The people who came up with Legendaries, Titanforging, Random stats on items, AP, Useless randomness in everything, Overengineered features like Crucible, Artifacts, 11 week meningless "quest lines"
Make sure: Those people will never work in game industry ever again.

[korn0413]

Keep: Mythic+ and WQs
Kill: Rep Grinds

[nnelson54]

I dont get all the mission table hate...great rewards for no effort, can even do it from a phone app. People are crazy.

Free rewards with no effort or risk is horrible game design. It only appeals to the type of person that loads a game up for the first time and puts in all the cheat codes. Which is fine in a single player game but will ruin a MMO over the long term. The mission tables are why the in game economy has been so screwed since WoD.

I quit six or seven months ago and game tokens were 20-25K gold. In such a short time they have sky rocketed to 170K gold. That is a ridiculous and economy killing inflation rate.

[Gorgodeus]

I suggested one keep and one kill, just to filter down into what people really liked and what they really disliked.

But the lists are cool.

Ref the mission tables: Having huge benefits given to you for free isn't a reason to keep them. It's actually a reason to kill them, given that it's a problem with basic game design to deliver all reward for no risk. There's absolutely no game play in them, which makes them impossible to "enjoy" - they're merely used as a content gate or a loot dispenser. They need to be gotten rid of, and it seems they're being gotten rid of.

I do not see Blizzard getting rid of mission tables or something similar. Blizzard has shifted a lot of their focus onto increasing the "played" time of players. Mission tables makes players feel like they have to log in every day.

[Omega10]

I do not see Blizzard getting rid of mission tables or something similar. Blizzard has shifted a lot of their focus onto increasing the "played" time of players. Mission tables makes players feel like they have to log in every day.

The existence of Mission tables has increased the amount of time I spend in WOW by quite a lot. My "down time" from WOW was decreased by keeping up with Mission tables, which eventually got me back into playing one of my toons seriously... which led me into playing OTHER toons seriously.

[iamthedevil]

I suppose this is where I disagree. Your mileage may vary, but my view is that what you're enjoying is simply the convenience rather than the game play; ultimately, because there's no game play to enjoy. Click a menu, wait for your reward... There's no intrinsic "play value" to it. It's also not a form of progression, because nothing progresses - it's the same again, and again, and again, ad infinitum.



And, of course, it's not optional.

You need to do it in order to move on your questlines; most importantly, for your final relic slot.

I'm not suggesting it's onerous, because it's not. But it is mandatory (as much as anything in a video game can be "mandatory").

I was referring to the gold missions. I don't do them, i do the rep and ap quests. I have too much gold already.

Yes, but all the required mission stuff require real world questing. The original post i quoted was complaining about "maintenance quests" which are optional.

[Gorgodeus]

The existence of Mission tables has increased the amount of time I spend in WOW by quite a lot. My "down time" from WOW was decreased by keeping up with Mission tables, which eventually got me back into playing one of my toons seriously... which led me into playing OTHER toons seriously.

Exactly. Increasing time invested in WoW makes players less time invested in competitors games.

[Artunias]

Keep: World Quests and Mythic+ (sorry gotta have two)

Kill: Legendary System, with fire and nukes. Cleanse it and send it to the deepest depths of hell where it belongs.

[elaina]

Remodel mission table and add personal ship as new garrison but allow it to travel (like zeppelin / old world boats) so you go from place to place but can tinker on whatever while you are isle hopping.

[varren]

Keep: WQs

Kill: The way Flying was handled. What an absolute debacle. Should be able to unlock it once you hit level cap/explore everything and get the BfA equivalent of Pathfinder.

[Flurryfang]

It's optional.

Not if you want to be functional in the game. It is like saying, that Dungeons are optinal and raids are optinal because you can get raiding gear through questing for long enough. Sure you can get the gear, but you have just made the game alot harder/tedious. The amount of income it gives is huge and one would be dumb to ignore it. It would be like if there was a big stack of gold in your order hall and all you had to do to get it, was to press on it. Its a feature the game gives to you and you are kinda making the game harder for yourself if you don't use it.

Besides, it is a a substacial storytelling tool in the game and even kind of an expanded end-game for Argus, where you do enough missions to get further into the small story. The gating used through the order hall is dumb and it is just making people pissed in the end.

Really, WoW should not give you something for doing nothing and for the people with 20k order hall resourses, you can get alot for doing close to nothing. Blizzard should try to encourage you to play more, engage yourself more in the community and the higher tiers of play, not reward people for just having an active account and playing characters undtil 110 just so they can create another Order Hall goldmine.

[iamthedevil]

Not if you want to be functional in the game. It is like saying, that Dungeons are optinal and raids are optinal because you can get raiding gear through questing for long enough. Sure you can get the gear, but you have just made the game alot harder/tedious. The amount of income it gives is huge and one would be dumb to ignore it. It would be like if there was a big stack of gold in your order hall and all you had to do to get it, was to press on it. Its a feature the game gives to you and you are kinda making the game harder for yourself if you don't use it.

Besides, it is a a substacial storytelling tool in the game and even kind of an expanded end-game for Argus, where you do enough missions to get further into the small story. The gating used through the order hall is dumb and it is just making people pissed in the end.

Really, WoW should not give you something for doing nothing and for the people with 20k order hall resourses, you can get alot for doing close to nothing. Blizzard should try to encourage you to play more, engage yourself more in the community and the higher tiers of play, not reward people for just having an active account and playing characters undtil 110 just so they can create another Order Hall goldmine.

I don't keep up with my missions consistently and i'm doing just fine. I don't even use it on my alts.

Encouraging you to play more is exactly what the mission table does lol.

You know you need order resource to continue using the board right?

[Flurryfang]

Exactly. Increasing time invested in WoW makes players less time invested in competitors games.

It is very clear, that the order hall mission table keeps player subbed, becasue it gives the illusion that you are active in the game, but in the end, it is really just an illusion for most people. Besides, sure it helps Blizz make money, but does it come at the cost of making the game worse?

I would say so. People will quickly start doing the math when they look on other activities they could do compared to the mission table, and how much value they can get from just doing the missions. When you get 1000-2000 gold a day from having a few toons with mission tables, it soon becomes hard to convince yourself to go farm/do professions, when it takes much more time to get the same amount of money.

Blizzard have created a player-group, which are highly inactive, feel no pressure or need to get more dedicated into the game and who are limited when it comes to being social with the different communties. This all centers around the mission table and i see people go to that group all the time. Not because they enjoy it more or because they are tired of the game, but because it simply becomes convinient and safe. That is bad and when it comes to WoW who are in dire need of dedicated players, who want to put in time into the game, the mission table is activily working against that.

[Deleted]

Keep: Everything
Kill: Horde, obviously.

LMAO

Ot:
Keep mythic+
Kill titanforged

[Leyre]

Kill: Everything but Mythics+
Keep: Mythics+

[Flurryfang]

I don't keep up with my missions consistently and i'm doing just fine. I don't even use it on my alts.

Encouraging you to play more is exactly what the mission table does lol.

You know you need order resource to continue using the board right?

You know that you get BoS through the mission table, right?

You proberly also know, that you can generate a huge amount of order hall resourses by just playing an hour or 2 each month, right?

I would not really call that encouraging to play more really, i would call that encouraging to play the minimum limited amount just to keep the mine running. It is really just an idle game: You play undtil everything is working fine for the next 24 hours and then you log out only to return when everything have clocked in.


If Missions cost alot more to do or if there was a limit of how much order hall resoureses you could stock and trade, then it might be a system that could encourage play, but since you can easily stack 100k resoureses, you can pretty much go on vacation for months on end without running out.

[Gaidax]

I think Legion has some solid stuff going, really well done.

I'd say only thing needed is capping warforging to sane levels, IMO +15 is as far as it should go, especially considering sockets are a thing too. One other thing, which they seem to be addressing, is a catastrophic gear slots shortage where at least 8 gear slots are pretty much locked from a get go by weapon, set, legendaries and trinket

I also would love to have Artifact Power a bit more finite - like to have an actual cap and not softcap we have now. I hope Azerite and Amulet thing will be spec-agnostic too, so there won't be this headache with separate specs requiring their own separate Azerite grind.

[Quincey]

Keep: WQ, M+
I know WQs are just dailies re-branded but I still much prefer them!
Mythic plus is a huge success, minus one or two of the affixes Its been great fun... I feel like they are a tad too rewarding at the moment though, it's taking emphasis away from raids which is not so good. But overall its been a huge positive to the game.

Kill: Mission table, Legandaries, WF/TF
I hate the mission table, I hated it in WoD and I still hate it now. Getting NPCs too run content for me is NEVER, EVER, a good idea. Ditch it and let me go do it myself.

Legandaries are the worst thing about Legion, gating that amount of player power behind that much rng was a freaking terrible idea, get the Diablo devs off the wow team and get them working on Diablo 4 eh? Legandaries should be the sole province of dedicated raiders. Personally I would prefer to go back to Legandaries that took a team effort to gain, Shadowmourne is my ideal system for them. Guaranteed but in no way doable solo. (Sorry LFR raiders but I would take it away from you too)

WF/TF - My major problem with WF/TF is that it is killing part of the incentive to push progression raids, Why push into mythic and wipe for a night when you can clear heroic in 3 hours and get some TF procs that give just as good gear. In my humble opinion WF/TF needs to go fullstop, but if you insist on some proc rng on top of your gear rng make tertiary stats far more effective and keep those.

[ulrich]

Keep: World Quests, m+
Kill: Warforging/titanforging

[Queen of Hamsters]

I love people saying for them to "kill pruning". And what, just add abilities back for the sake of having more stuff on the bars?

I'd rather they fix the classes currently playing like shit than focus on reaching some arbitrary goal of "this many stoofs on teh bars hurr!"...