What is your view of liberal immigration policy?

[Jimmy Woods]

Liberal - I want to import millions of workers and have little restrictions on immigration

Don't care who they vote for. We need workers. Millions of non Americans want to fill those jobs that we currently can't fill. I say let them in. No annual cap, the more the better. As far as vetting I say we screen for terrorism risks obviously and then if they have a college degree or needed skill I'd give those people a fast pass in. If they are low skilled then they need to come in and work.

I don't vote for a candidate based on immigration, however the fucking stupid rhetoric on the right that Democrats want more black and brown people for votes so they can suppress the white vote makes me not care what they left policy is and I just want to see conservatives lose.

[RicardoZ]

Which is somewhat understandable. My issue with the whole thing is that the process to become a legal citizen isn't as cut and dry as some like to thing and is a bureaucratic shitstorm where people fall through the cracks all the time and people are working towards citizenship for decades.

My personal stance is to be super strict on illegal immigration but actually try to fix the holes and have a clearer path to citizenship.

I agree completely. The best thing we can do to deter illegal immigration is to streamline the system so it isn't such a towering mountain of a barrier to completing the process legally. As it stands now it's so expensive and takes so long that one can hardly blame families in crisis for taking advantage of holes in the border or overstaying visas.

[PC2]

Liberal - I want to import millions of workers and have little restrictions on immigration

Don't care who they vote for. We need workers. Millions of non Americans want to fill those jobs that we currently can't fill. I say let them in. No annual cap, the more the better. As far as vetting I say we screen for terrorism risks obviously and then if they have a college degree or needed skill I'd give those people a fast pass in. If they are low skilled then they need to come in and work.

I don't vote for a candidate based on immigration, however the fucking stupid rhetoric on the right that Democrats want more black and brown people for votes so they can suppress the white vote makes me not care what they left policy is and I just want to see conservatives lose.

Nah, having demand for unskilled work is a good incentive to advance automation, getting machines to do those tasks. We're never going to be able to rival places like China and India when it comes to dirt cheap manual labor.

[PACOX]

Most people who criticize liberal immigrantion dont know what the fuck actually liberal policies are. Liberals want a better path to citizenship, not open borders. They want law abiding people who have been here for years to be grandfathered into the system. They want to penalize businesses that are flagrant with hiring illegals but not offering decent pay/helping their employees get on the right side of immigration laws. Liberals want to do away with old unfair immigration practices from the 1800s and 1900s that judge immigrates on racist/social perceptions and not what the success of the immigrants from said countries have achieved once allowed into the country (ie saying we dont want Haitians and Nigerians but immigrants from those countries do well in the US vs say...Norway). Banning Abdul because theres a 0.001 chance that someone immigrating from his country might be a terrorist. Bullshit like that.

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Nah, having demand for unskilled work is a good incentive to automate those tasks with machines. We're never going to be able to rival places like China and India when it comes to dirt cheap labor.

Except Republicans are all about stifling automation and retraining to keep old professions alive *cough* coal.

[Stormspellz]

Well...I mean...there's rhetoric and there's actual understanding.

For instance, no, people don't really believe conservatives want people to die on the streets if they don't have health insurance. That's just the rhetoric.

Similarly, I do believe that most conservatives don't actually believe that liberal stance is fully open borders with no checks and balances. That's just the rhetoric.

That's my opinion about your topic anyway -- I voted my opinion on immigration itself.

No I really think conservatives want people to die out in the streets, that is the only conclusion one gets by paying attention to their legislative history.

and i really think conservatives believe liberals want no check open borders for all, I mean just look at the recent pole that shows conservatives think accurate but negative news is "fake news", and there has been many such polls that show conservatives outrages things, "open border" is just another feather in the cap.

[PC2]

Except Republicans are all about stifling automation and retraining to keep old professions alive *cough* coal.

Which Republican policy position is stifling automation? Appealing to coal jobs is silly but the idea that automation is being stifled by fossil fuel is nonsense.

[Machismo]

I'm none of those, I have no desire to import anyone, I think the free markets should determine how many people immigrate.

[DarkTZeratul]

I'm none of those, I have no desire to import anyone, I think the free markets should determine how many people immigrate.

How, exactly?

[Machismo]

How, exactly?

If people want to come here to work, great. If a business wants to hire an immigrant, legal or illegal, great. If there's no jobs, and companies don't want to hire them, because there's no demand for labor capital, great.

[Macaquerie]

I agree completely. The best thing we can do to deter illegal immigration is to streamline the system so it isn't such a towering mountain of a barrier to completing the process legally. As it stands now it's so expensive and takes so long that one can hardly blame families in crisis for taking advantage of holes in the border or overstaying visas.

The legal immigration system is purposely set up to be as confusing and demeaning as possible to make it difficult for prospective migrants. This of course doesn't actually reduce the level of immigration, it just turns people who otherwise would be coming in legally into illegal immigrants instead. The part that a lot of people miss though is that this is a feature and not a bug. Illegal immigrants live in constant fear of deportation and are easy to control and exploit, whereas legal immigrants can be politically active and lobby for their own interests without negative repercussions.

The fundamental reality is that the demographic balance of this country is inevitably going to change and whatever immigration policy we put in place will not change that. The question is whether we are going to actually give these newcomers the kinds of rights and freedoms that this country was founded on, or take yet another stab at creating a permanently disenfranchised underclass and be exposed as complete and utter frauds to the rest of the world.

[Adam Jensen]

Vetted immigration is fine. Let them come. So long as they're vetted.

We don't need a wall. A wall is useless, pointless, a waste of time and money. Most illegal immigrants come legally, a wall won't stop someone from entering with a legit visa and then simply not leaving.

Dreamers need a path to citizenship. End of story. They've lived here most their lives, they identify as American, they were brought here against their will by their parents. They should not have to suffer for the sins of their parents. What is the harm in giving them a path to citizenship? They're already productive, taxpaying members of their communities.

[downnola]

Dreamers need a path to citizenship. End of story. They've lived here most their lives, they identify as American, they were brought here against their will by their parents. They should not have to suffer for the sins of their parents. What is the harm in giving them a path to citizenship? They're already productive, taxpaying members of their communities.

I thought most Americans thought of those born in the United States as fellow Americans. I think it's one of the honorable things about us that sets us apart from most of the world. I don't see how that doesn't apply to someone who, even if not technically born here, knows no other country but the U.S.

[Cthulhu 2020]

Skilled immigrants from anywhere. Non-skilled immigrants from shithole regions has to be limited otherwise they flood in.

Skilled migrants tend to not like to downgrade from their home nations.

[PosPosPos]

So I'm wondering if people here have something of a realistic idea of what liberals actually want, or if they just vilify the liberal position on immigration to make winning arguments easier, since they have no real way to argue against the ACTUAL position of the vast majority of liberals.

I thought this was already obvious without a poll. It's all they do everywhere, not just this forum.

Well...I mean...there's rhetoric and there's actual understanding.

For instance, no, people don't really believe conservatives want people to die on the streets if they don't have health insurance. That's just the rhetoric.

Here's where I stop you because you are flat out wrong. The rhetoric is the truth in the case of conservatives. They know exactly the consequences of their actions, they just don't care because they benefit from it.

[Toppy]

There should be a rule against having such loaded polls

[DarkTZeratul]

If people want to come here to work, great. If a business wants to hire an immigrant, legal or illegal, great. If there's no jobs, and companies don't want to hire them, because there's no demand for labor capital, great.

So no immigration laws whatsoever?

[Dezerte]

My views on immigration are rather liberal (classic liberalism that is), we should maximize freedom of movement as much is possible (financially and socially).

[Allybeboba]

Perhaps to explain -- I believe a "large number of far-right conservatives" end up being a small (but incredibly loud and vocal) number of overall conservatives. So I believe we agree on the principle but perhaps disagree on how many far right conservatives are part of the overall conservative pool.

The same could be said for the left as well my friend.
It’s great being part of the “silent majority” though. I get to sit back and watch their(both) antics.

The whole "they just want more Democrat votes" is such bunk as a theory.

It takes years for an immigrant to pursue citizenship and earn the right to vote. If they ever do. And really, if Republicans wanted those votes, it would just take not supporting racist and anti-immigrant policies. If immigrants are largely voting against you as a bloc, maybe try and figure out why, and change your platform to address that, rather than just whining and stamping your feet that it's unfair.

Some would call it an overall “investment”. I am not saying I feel that way, but a lot of people do. It’s a fact that as voting bloc minorities vote for Democrats. Logically, Democrats(or any political party) will want to pander to them. They would be foolish not to if they wanted to keep their votes.

Cheers

[Machismo]

So no immigration laws whatsoever?

The less the better, yes.

[Spectral]

Liberals aren't a monolith and even individuals have multiple motivations and sets of reasoning. Even for a single person, what they feel their motivation to be changes depending on the context and conversation. I think the bog-standard liberal position among neoliberals, left-libertarians, and classical liberals is to favor freedom of movement because of total net economic benefits and especially for improving the lives of those migrating.

However, it's trivial to find spiteful commentary from semi-fringe left-wing publications (think Salon, for example) gloating about the US becoming majority minority. It's also not very hard to find examples of these people talking enthusiastically about how this dooms Republicans in future elections. Shouldn't we take those people at their word? Some people are pretty excited about the part of immigration where they think it tilts elections towards Democrats.