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  1. #261
    Stood in the Fire Grokresh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostpanther View Post
    Look, the only way the Democrats can blame this on Trump is if they pass a funding bill and he veto's it. The ball was in the hands of Congress. No one to blame but them. 5 Democrats voted for it and 5 Republicans against.
    They provided him with two deals supported by both sides but the only one who wasn't compromising was trump.

  2. #262
    Quote Originally Posted by WillBowman View Post
    Again Margin of error. LOL~!

    And how many times has Polling been accurate?

    More then you can count.
    This. One inaccurate poll does not discredit them all. Silly to even think that.

    It was accurate in who would win the popular vote anyway since they can't really do electoral college.

  3. #263
    The Lightbringer GreenGoldSharpie's Avatar
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    Notice how we went from the failures of the Republican Party inability to govern without hostage taking (including a 50% success rate using fucking budget reconciliation) to quibbling about polls.

    Pretty hilarious.

  4. #264
    What I find amazing about this government shutdown is how many people somehow come to the deluded idea that this can in any way be other than a Republican caused shutdown.

    Specifically - how they can ignore Trump's total incompetence in the last 2 weeks that led undeniably to this shutdown.

    Even Mitch McConnell said as much:

    “I'm looking for something that President Trump supports, and he has not yet indicated what measure he is willing to sign,” McConnell said. “As soon as we figure out what he is for, then I would be convinced that we were not just spinning our wheels.”

    How does one compete against that level of ignorance of the documented, televised and absolute facts demonstrated here.

    Challenge Mode : Play WoW like my disability has me play:
    You will need two people, Brian MUST use the mouse for movement/looking and John MUST use the keyboard for casting, attacking, healing etc.
    Briand and John share the same goal, same intentions - but they can't talk to each other, however they can react to each other's in game activities.
    Now see how far Brian and John get in WoW.


  5. #265
    Quote Originally Posted by SoulForge View Post
    This. One inaccurate poll does not discredit them all. Silly to even think that.

    It was accurate in who would win the popular vote anyway since they can't really do electoral college.
    Yet surprisingly many uneducated people do.

  6. #266
    Quote Originally Posted by Torrasque View Post
    Considering that this boils down to a wall that the US cannot afford without massive tax hikes due to the tax cuts offered to the rich, it makes sense why the budget is overextended.
    What constantly gets me though is that the GOP ultimately did this to themselves.

    Basically, they "backed" ending the DACA so they could use it as a bargaining chip to work with Dems to get more border funding. The Democrats agreed to go along, so long as things like the DACA ended up as law, and they had a bipartisan compromise that Trump promised to sign if it were brought to him by both parties.

    .....then Trump refused to sign it at the 11th hour and said no wall no signature. The whole thing was orchestrated political theater by the GOP and Trump basically, the way I put it in the other thread, shot their boat full of holes after previously promising them safe passage.

    Now the senate GOP isn't even trying to compromise because Trump's word is meaningless therefore Dems have no reason to negotiate or make concessions and the GOP have no leverage on the situation at all to get them to the table. Senators on both sides have been calling Trump out for this as well as he's basically upending the system and he can and will torpedo anything he wants. Then we get to the House and they're basically infighting over which weapon they want to use to kill themselves because they're stuck between supporting Trump and getting crushed by Dems in their states/districts or compromising and getting primaried.
    Quote Originally Posted by Connal View Post
    From my perspective it is an uncle who was is a "simple" slat of the earth person, who has religous beliefs I may or may not fully agree with, but who in the end of the day wants to go hope, kiss his wife, and kids, and enjoy their company.
    Connal defending child molestation

  7. #267
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostpanther View Post
    It is political shifting crap. Each party blaming the other. Not uncommon. Has happened like 18 times in the US history in the last 40 years or so.
    Maybe it's time for proportional representation or just a 3rd party in the houses to take advantage of the chaos when two parties start slinging shit at each other. It can't get any worse with these new standards. But the presidency is too much power for one man and also part of the reason to the chaos shown by this situation. When a single man can single-handedly shut down government you have an issue.
    Last edited by Tiwack; 2018-01-20 at 04:28 PM.
    If you knew the candle was fire then the meal was cooked a long time ago.

  8. #268
    Stood in the Fire Grokresh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiri View Post
    Again, there has been a bipartisan compromise on even DACA. There even was a compromise offered by Democrats that included wall funding. But a certain president rejected them. What you are saying is basically just 'Congress should always do exactly what the President wants', at which point you could just get rid of it altogether.
    Breaks my heart that people keep ignoring facts like this just to make up whatever they want, the only one who wasn't happy was trump, he single-handedly shut the government down by refusing the bipartsian compromises. Not the republicans or democrats but trump himself did this.

  9. #269
    I don't agree with the Democrats on this.

    The optics of this is that the Democratic party are willing to shut down the government for immigration policy regarding many non citizens of the US but not on tax policy where all US citizens participate in some fashion.

    This isn't going to stick on Republicans like many think. For the simplest reason being that a lot of Americans simply do not accept illegal aliens residing on US soil. Democrats, Independents, Republicans, and even non voters.

    Democratic party should have stood their ground on tax policy. Now, in trying to appear tough they are choosing the worst possible way to stand their ground against the Trump administration.

  10. #270
    The Unstoppable Force Ghostpanther's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiwack View Post
    Maybe it's time for proportional representation or just a 3rd party in the houses to take advantage of the chaos when two parties start slinging shit at each other.
    Depends on what the third party represents. If you are referring to a Socialist party, to hell with that shit. However, the Democrats are beginning to shift toward a socialist stance as a Party. So maybe a Libertarian Party ?

  11. #271
    Herald of the Titans Pterodactylus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostpanther View Post
    It is political shifting crap. Each party blaming the other. Not uncommon. Has happened like 18 times in the US history in the last 40 years or so.
    Who was to blame the last time the government shutdown? I wonder if Trump had anything to say about it at the time? Oh right...

    Quote Originally Posted by President Trump
    “Well, if you say who gets fired it always has to be the top, I mean, problems start from the top and they have to get solved from the top and the president’s the leader. And he’s got to get everybody in a room and he’s got to lead....when they talk about the government shutdown, they’re going to be talking about the president of the United States, who the president was at that time.”
    And now "Mr. Negotiator" the art of the deal master himself is just sitting around in his bathrobe watching fox news and tweeting. So much winning.
    “You know, it really doesn’t matter what the media write as long as you’ve got a young, and beautiful, piece of ass." - President Donald Trump

  12. #272
    Quote Originally Posted by Mafic View Post
    I don't agree with the Democrats on this.

    The optics of this is that the Democratic party are willing to shut down the government for immigration policy regarding many non citizens of the US but not on tax policy where all US citizens participate in some fashion.

    This isn't going to stick on Republicans like many think. For the simplest reason being that a lot of Americans simply do not accept illegal aliens residing on US soil. Democrats, Independents, Republicans, and even non voters.

    Democratic party should have stood their ground on tax policy. Now, in trying to appear tough they are choosing the worst possible way to stand their ground against the Trump administration.
    Nope, the optics are that it's on Trump because of the Wall which is Highly Unpopular right now to begin with.

  13. #273
    Quote Originally Posted by TriHard View Post
    Saw this shit on the news today, so as someone from outside the U.S I have no idea what this means, could someone explain what the consequences of this might be?
    Briefly, it means that some government workers got a surprise leave (most of them still work), that the funding of new programs is suspended, and that the military still works but is not paid after February assuming the situation extends this far. From what I've gathered anyway.

    So is it a disaster of biblical proportions, no, but it's another indication of how dysfunctional US politics are.

  14. #274
    Quote Originally Posted by Pterodactylus View Post
    And now "Mr. Negotiator" the art of the deal master himself is just sitting around in his bathrobe watching fox news and tweeting. So much winning.
    Can't wait for non-stop tweeting for the next few weeks.

  15. #275
    Quote Originally Posted by Grokresh View Post
    Breaks my heart that people keep ignoring facts like this just to make up whatever they want, the only one who wasn't happy was trump, he single-handedly shut the government down by refusing the bipartsian compromises. Not the republicans or democrats but trump himself did this.
    Not only that but but going back on his word the way he did also sets a standard where congress can't negotiate because Trump never even knows what he wants.

    This completely sabotages negotiations as the minority party has no reason to come to the table or give an inch.
    Quote Originally Posted by Connal View Post
    From my perspective it is an uncle who was is a "simple" slat of the earth person, who has religous beliefs I may or may not fully agree with, but who in the end of the day wants to go hope, kiss his wife, and kids, and enjoy their company.
    Connal defending child molestation

  16. #276
    Quote Originally Posted by therayeffect View Post
    There's a pretty big difference between 'lying because you're afraid of being outed and losing your job/livelyhood/home/etc' and the lying you're implicating as a problem.

    As for the thread's topic, I'm pretty pissed off at our Gov't as a whole. The majority of the blame is going to fall on Republican's shoulders since they hold the majority but we can't pretend this isn't a bipartisan issue. I'm not seeing a lot of hope for things to get better for 2018 elections.
    There was a bi-partisan deal. It had enough support in both House and Senate.
    Trump blew it up and said he wouldn't sign it if they voted on it.

    McConnell then tried to use CHIP, a popular program that everyone wants but Republicans failed to fund 4 months ago as a carrot to get Democrats to give up on DACA, to get a bill past Trump.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  17. #277
    Quote Originally Posted by WillBowman View Post
    Nope, the optics are that it's on Trump because of the Wall which is Highly Unpopular right now to begin with.
    You have been deceived.

    The wall is going to be built no matter what the Democrats do. Trump is trying to rub it in and trying to leverage more in the negotiations knowing the Democrats will decline initially.

    It is part of a negotiation ploy.

  18. #278
    Quote Originally Posted by Mafic View Post
    I don't agree with the Democrats on this.

    The optics of this is that the Democratic party are willing to shut down the government for immigration policy regarding many non citizens of the US but not on tax policy where all US citizens participate in some fashion.

    This isn't going to stick on Republicans like many think. For the simplest reason being that a lot of Americans simply do not accept illegal aliens residing on US soil. Democrats, Independents, Republicans, and even non voters.

    Democratic party should have stood their ground on tax policy. Now, in trying to appear tough they are choosing the worst possible way to stand their ground against the Trump administration.
    The problem is that the illegal immigrants you're talking about aren't just the border hoppers. They're DREAMERS, and thus a bracket of immigrants that have bipartisan support in our government. They're basically Americans and deporting them is a literal sins of the father punishment.

    Trump and the GOP are taking the backlash, not Dems, because of how transparent the situation is if you're not a Fox neanderthal because the GOP have the raw numbers to ram through anything they want without any Dem votes. But even their own party isn't on board with Trump's plan and have voted against it because it's political suicide in many of their districts or states.
    Quote Originally Posted by Connal View Post
    From my perspective it is an uncle who was is a "simple" slat of the earth person, who has religous beliefs I may or may not fully agree with, but who in the end of the day wants to go hope, kiss his wife, and kids, and enjoy their company.
    Connal defending child molestation

  19. #279
    The Unstoppable Force Ghostpanther's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    There was a bi-partisan deal. It had enough support in both House and Senate.
    Trump blew it up and said he wouldn't sign it if they voted on it.
    If that is true. They should have passed it anyway and let him veto. I think he would have signed it however. He did make a statement he would sign any temporary spending bill put on his desk.

  20. #280
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostpanther View Post
    If that is true. They should have passed it anyway and let him veto. I think he would have signed it however. He did make a statement he would sign any temporary spending bill put on his desk.
    They would of passed it anyway? Uhh no Trump said not gonna happen so they didn't bother trying.

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