Tim Hortons franchise owners tell workers to blame gov for cuts, don't vote liberal

[THE Bigzoman]

It's pretty funny that the exact outcome that's predicted by every basic model of labor economics (artificially high wages leads to worse employment conditions) is reacted to as though it's shocking and unfair.

Not really, you just get a lot of hipster fagget economists that rave on and on about how neoclassical models are outdated but propose no changes and/or adjustments to fix alleged flaws.

[Cthulhu 2020]

It's pretty funny that the exact outcome that's predicted by every basic model of labor economics (artificially high wages leads to worse employment conditions) is reacted to as though it's shocking and unfair.

Seems weird that certain companies are acting dramatically and making massive, exaggerated cuts, while others are coping just fine with minuscule price hikes to cope.

It's almost as if some companies are deliberately overreacting to make a political spectacle of this, when "artificial" wage hikes in the past and in every other country have had an almost non detectable effect on prices and employment.

Hmmmm, nope, guess it's not at all possible that Tim Horton's could be making a political statement and would do just fine raising the price of each donut by 3 cents...

[Deleted]

I'm wondering what 'basic model of labor economics' advocates for historically high wage disparity.

The problem is that large parts of the workforce has become increasingly productive, whereas other parts have become redundant, that's one of the reasons there is a historically high wage disparity.

[Spectral]

Seems weird that certain companies are acting dramatically and making massive, exaggerated cuts, while others are coping just fine with minuscule price hikes to cope.

It's almost as if some companies are deliberately overreacting to make a political spectacle of this, when "artificial" wage hikes in the past and in every other country have had an almost non detectable effect on prices and employment.

Hmmmm, nope, guess it's not at all possible that Tim Horton's could be making a political statement and would do just fine raising the price of each donut by 3 cents...

As near as I can tell, this move isn't from Tim Horton's corporate, but from some local business. I don't know how much they can or can't control prices - that's often dictated to franchisees. I also don't actually know what the expected consumer response to price changes would be, but sure, if demand elasticity is low, price increases could also be an expected response. There probably isn't a lot of room for that though - businesses already charge as much as they think the market will bear.

Of course their politics impacts their framing of the issue, I just don't get how people are surprised that one expected outcome from forcing wages above market-clearing rates results in worse working conditions. Whether a company does that loudly or quietly, it's still what you'd expect.

[EbonBehelit]

It's pretty funny that the exact outcome that's predicted by every basic model of labor economics (artificially high wages leads to worse employment conditions) is reacted to as though it's shocking and unfair.

Economics generally studies people on a large scale. The reason it can make predictions at all is due to how predictably greedy people are.

On another note, the biggest problem right now is that it's cheaper to hire workers in 3rd world countries to produce your goods. Unfortunately for the Libertarians, this means that you CANNOT fight the 'evils of Globalism' without putting some super-heavy regulations into play.

[Lochton]

Is that not insanely illegal? Pretty sure writing something like that would get a serious punishment in Denmark.

That would indeed be quite illegal in Denmark but you can see on the text that they are clearly republican. This hopefully is illegal over there too.

[Nitros14]

Well sadly with increasing automatisation, low skill jobs will lose more and more value, maybe burger flippers aren't worth the money to "catch up". They'll probably be replaced by machines and then they'll end up unemployed.

Minimum wage laws won't work longterm because machines work for free, and this wasn't a problem in the past which is why wages rose, for the most part, with cost of living, but this trend has been slowing down and will continue to slow down then stop then be entirely replaved by machines

For the best. Mass unemployment would force government's hand to actually do something.

[Spectral]

That would indeed be quite illegal in Denmark but you can see on the text that they are clearly republican. This hopefully is illegal over there too.

Yeah, those dang Canadian Republicans!

[Deleted]

For the best. Mass unemployment would force government's hand to actually do something.

Sure maybe, but in what way does that take shape?

[Deleted]

Economics generally studies people on a large scale. The reason it can make predictions at all is due to how predictably greedy people are.

On another note, the biggest problem right now is that it's cheaper to hire workers in 3rd world countries to produce your goods. Unfortunately for the Libertarians, this means that you CANNOT fight the 'evils of Globalism' without putting some super-heavy regulations into play.

Do libertarians think there is evils to Globalism?
Regardless international trade requires common regulation, that invariably then restrict the freedom of people, hence global libertarian-ism still wouldn't work.

- - - Updated - - -

That would indeed be quite illegal in Denmark but you can see on the text that they are clearly republican. This hopefully is illegal over there too.

They are Canadians.
Canada has a separate political system to the US.

Hopefully?
I wasn't aware that restricting people's free speech rights was a 'good thing'.

[Haloswin]

Your place of employment telling you how to vote. Up next: gangs of enforcers standing outside if you decide to try and unionize.

Yes.. because unions never try to sway the votes of their union members, right? Hard to be indignant about one if you support the other.

[Cthulhu 2020]

As near as I can tell, this move isn't from Tim Horton's corporate, but from some local business. I don't know how much they can or can't control prices - that's often dictated to franchisees. I also don't actually know what the expected consumer response to price changes would be, but sure, if demand elasticity is low, price increases could also be an expected response. There probably isn't a lot of room for that though - businesses already charge as much as they think the market will bear.

Of course their politics impacts their framing of the issue, I just don't get how people are surprised that one expected outcome from forcing wages above market-clearing rates results in worse working conditions. Whether a company does that loudly or quietly, it's still what you'd expect.

I haven't known of a single franchise in the US where the prices don't vary by region. Because that's how food works. The price to ship it there, along with price of chilling in delivery trucks, etc. makes it all that much more expensive depending on location.

I realize there's going to be some restriction on pricing due to franchise rules, but I doubt it would be something that would have prevented a small price hike, considering that's just part of normal business operation.

I feel like this move of hurting employees is just a political stunt. Sure, it was one of the directions they could have taken, but it seems they chose this route rather than a better one as a political stunt.

[Oneirophobia]

The blow back is honestly welcome, Tim Hortons was becoming a monopoly a little too quickly.

[Spectral]

The blow back is honestly welcome, Tim Hortons was becoming a monopoly a little too quickly.

By what mechanism would they secure a monopoly? This makes zero sense.

[Deleted]

Yeah, vote so that they can keep their profits high darn it, Lamborghini's aren't cheap!

[Spectral]

Yeah, vote so that they can keep their profits high darn it, Lamborghini's aren't cheap!

I don't think very many franchisees drive Lamborghinis.

This is another weird misunderstanding of how markets work though. There simply isn't a mechanism for competitive goods (such as fast food) to yield high profit margins. Any given store is going to have a pretty limited amount of profit due the swiftness which which they'll be ground to dust by competition if they're trying to extract much higher profits from consumers. If you disagree, you're going to need to propose both a coherent mechanism for how a store owner can get massive profits and examples of them doing so; I think you'll find that the only times this happens are when someone has a scarce good or a monopoly.

[JohnBrown1917]

What a good idea, they should indeed vote for the left wing parties instead. maybe I misjudged Tim hortons!

[Deleted]

I don't think very many franchisees drive Lamborghinis.

This is another weird misunderstanding of how markets work though. There simply isn't a mechanism for competitive goods (such as fast food) to yield high profit margins. Any given store is going to have a pretty limited amount of profit due the swiftness which which they'll be ground to dust by competition if they're trying to extract much higher profits from consumers. If you disagree, you're going to need to propose both a coherent mechanism for how a store owner can get massive profits and examples of them doing so; I think you'll find that the only times this happens are when someone has a scarce good or a monopoly.

Well that is the issue with chain stores in general, we've essentially swapped healthy and profitable stores that could pay good wages and make good profits (albeit it more expensive), for minimal profit but massive quantity, so that there is only really one centralized place that the wealth amasses.

It is one of my favourite examples about something like Walmart and its kind, one opens and within a year housing prices start to lower. Simply because it is a vacuum of profit, that gets shipped away; it is cheaper, but ultimately there is a whole other price to pay for such business.

But it is true, there isn't really any viable way of dismantling it. Raise wages on a law basis, HQ just lowers something else, because their sole task is to ensure ever increasing profits.

[Spectral]

But it is true, there isn't really any viable way of dismantling it. Raise wages on a law basis, HQ just lowers something else, because their sole task is to ensure ever increasing profits.

This is one of a number of reasons that I favor direct subsidies (negative income tax, EITC, or UBI - I don't really care about the exact structure) for improving conditions for the working poor. I don't think there's a good policy way to achieve a strong standard of living for low-skill workers in the modern environment via legislating wages or conditions, but one can directly transfer wealth from capitalists to the working poor with minimal economic disruption.

[Uoyredrum]

Well in the USA you can get fired for having a political opinion (mostly if you disagree with some SJW agenda), so I doubt something like this is illegal. I honestly find it a bit funny because the "wrong" political spectrum is doing it this time.

Nowhere in the USA is it illegal to have any opinion. There's just rules for how you share that opinion and push it onto others. This seems to be something that conservatives just can't grasp.