Why Chaos Cleave instead of First Blood?

[Tengokuq]

How come? I know it scales with mastery, but Death Sweep while in Meta is so strong. Even without T20. Somehow Chaos Cleave sims better than First Blood

[Justpassing]

Chaos Cleave gets you more soul fragments.

[Tengokuq]

Chaos Cleave gets you more soul fragments.

Really? The ones are hit by Chaos Cleave have a 20% chance to drop as well? :O

[Mamut]

Should we ever use blade dance now (without FB talent)? Like on 7+ targets or never?

[Tengokuq]

Should we ever use blade dance now (without FB talent)? Like on 7+ targets or never?

Imo, it's still a pretty strong talent.

[DemonHunter18]

it does Chaos Damage.

Mastery increases Chaos Damage.

First Blood is physical damage but it worked with Tier20 but not with this one.

[Kash6]

The idea is that the more we chaos strike, the better, using a gcd on first blood/death sweep is a gcd you're not potentially generating a soul fragment.

[Shirofune]

Really? The ones are hit by Chaos Cleave have a 20% chance to drop as well? :O

Nope, it's just that Blade Dance doesn't spawn fragments.

Increasing the number of CS in the rotation increases the chance to spawn fragments.

[Svisalith]

Blade Dance doesn't scale nearly as well from Crit as Chaos Strike and it doesn't scale at all from Mastery

nor does Throw Glaive which suffered a similar fate

[Baroclinic]

I say First Blood myself. At least for single target.

1. First Blood scales with both Haste and Vers. Hey, guess what you get with your 4pc! Also, Vers > Mastery as both seem to give about the same damage increases, except Vers increases ALL damage (and some damage resistance to boot!). OK, the run increases from mastery is nice, but we got lots of mobility already.
On a good 4pc + heroism, I can sometimes get 3 death sweeps in before my meta drops from an eye blast, that is maybe 4mil damage, what did your Chaos Cleave get from that?

OK, Crit/Vers gear is given only by the RNG gods so it may differ for some people graced with mastery...

Unless your sporting 2-3 relics increasing Chaos Strike crit damage, I just don't see it matching up... and even then I'm skeptical.

2. More chances at procs. Procs are nice.

3. Its a hell of a lot more forgiving in non-patchwork situations. If I miss a chaos strike because I'm avoiding some bad, well, it would have been a single smash of 1.4m from First Blood.

The chance of an inner demon proc and a soul frag are about the only thing really in favor for chaos spam to me which "might" keep it ahead on a patchwork situation.

[Roibale]

nice feelcraft!

[Lucrece]

They should make blade dance and throw glaive chaos damage. Would fix DH aoe issues quite nicely as well.

[Dextar]

I say First Blood myself. At least for single target.

1. First Blood scales with both Haste and Vers. Hey, guess what you get with your 4pc! Also, Vers > Mastery as both seem to give about the same damage increases, except Vers increases ALL damage (and some damage resistance to boot!). OK, the run increases from mastery is nice, but we got lots of mobility already.
On a good 4pc + heroism, I can sometimes get 3 death sweeps in before my meta drops from an eye blast, that is maybe 4mil damage, what did your Chaos Cleave get from that?

OK, Crit/Vers gear is given only by the RNG gods so it may differ for some people graced with mastery...

Unless your sporting 2-3 relics increasing Chaos Strike crit damage, I just don't see it matching up... and even then I'm skeptical.

2. More chances at procs. Procs are nice.

3. Its a hell of a lot more forgiving in non-patchwork situations. If I miss a chaos strike because I'm avoiding some bad, well, it would have been a single smash of 1.4m from First Blood.

The chance of an inner demon proc and a soul frag are about the only thing really in favor for chaos spam to me which "might" keep it ahead on a patchwork situation.

It's not about the damage, it's about generating soul fragments, which in turn generates more CS, lowers EB CD, and increases your uptime on Meta. The damage might be equal but when you're wasting fury on BD you have 0% chance to generate soul fragments which as I said increases your overall damage.

It's the same reason you DB, EB, meta, 0 fury, EB once BF is down, then collect soul fragments instead of collecting them on the fly at the start. More Meta = higher damage.

[Baroclinic]

A whopping 25% chance at a short 5% damage ONLY on a demon, and 5% off eyeblast CD (purely a small chance I wouldn't gamble on) vs 100-200K surething damage? Your getting 2 sure thing Blade Dance for the cost of 1 CS/Ann which may or may not crit. This then scales to maybe 300-400K surething during haste/Hero, what does CS/Annil get out of those time periods?.

A quicksim on my toon-non crucible gives 1,738,287 for Cleave Spam vs 1,695,064 Blade Dance weave. A wopping 43K difference. Keep in mind, 1. This is a PATCHWERK scenario. If you weren't around for wrath, the fight just consisted if you sitting there hitting your attack buttons in the correct order as fast as possible. Nothing else. 2. The closest we have to Patchwerk right now, is Vari or Garathi depending on how lucky you get, or how much you wish to place your own team members in danger when he targets you. I was super lucky with my last Vari kill, logged 1,564,276 with no getting knocked out and no necrotic plague and only using 1 potion when a sim calls for 2 so I'm sure I'm on the right track here (closest thing to a pure patchwork for me so far).

Remember, this is a 43K difference on a PERFECT rotation on the easiest raidboss ever for DPS (with no Chaos Crit relics). Blade Dance FTW until TW Naxx.

[Dastreus]

Because Icy-Veins says so.

(Nah it seems people answered.)

[Roibale]

2.372.601 dps with Chaos Cleave

2.267.927 dps with First Blood

Baroclinic just accept the fact that Chaos Cleave is better than First Blood at the moment... u simmed it yourself

[Baroclinic]

2.372.601 dps with Chaos Cleave

2.267.927 dps with First Blood

Baroclinic just accept the fact that Chaos Cleave is better than First Blood at the moment... u simmed it yourself

Sure thing, when we get to fight Patchwork again and wow lets me use a bot.

Oh, did I mention the sim is giving 44 blade dance over 412 seconds. This is only putting 1 blade dance/Death Sweep every 9.36 seconds when the cooldown is only 8.74 seconds without buffs? Which appears, that because it is simply a programmed bot, it is favoring something else over Blade Dance/Death Sweep (the strongest attack) during 4 pc. And we still ain't got a heroism/bloodlust...

But, but, but icy? I suppose if your stacked like a mofo on mastery, crit, and 2-3 Cleave crit boosting artifacts...

[Roibale]

Sure thing, when we get to fight Patchwork again and wow lets me use a bot.

so and why should FB do more dmg in non patchwerk fights? u can play it if u want but dont spread false information pls

[Zyrosis]

Sure thing, when we get to fight Patchwork again and wow lets me use a bot.

You know you can sim more than just Patchwerk right? For me every type ends up with Chaos Cleave ahead by varying values. So while I like First Blood and Blade Dance, it is inferior to Chaos Cleave in T21. Also, what situations are you ever in where you can Blade Dance and hit enemies but not Chaos strike??

[Baroclinic]

You know you can sim more than just Patchwerk right? For me every type ends up with Chaos Cleave ahead by varying values. So while I like First Blood and Blade Dance, it is inferior to Chaos Cleave in T21. Also, what situations are you ever in where you can Blade Dance and hit enemies but not Chaos strike??

Aggromar, when hes casting his giant AoE, I'm sure we can an extra blade dance before when we run out. That's what I do. Gorathi, again, targeted. Don't have to run far, but that is a good time while BD cools off. Do I need to go on? Have we even killed these bosses yet? Its an 8-10 second window of forgiveness for not being at the boss! I feel I've made my points, I've seen very little against.