US Federal Government Shutdown

[Elegiac]

I'm just amazed they think there's this idle population waiting to surge into the fields. The idle part of our rural population is actively killing itself off. They're in no shape to do anything productive.

Or that they think losing Mexican labor means more jobs for Americans.

The entire reason we now have machine-harvestable tomatoes is because of immigration crackdowns. Deporting illegals just means more automation.

[Vatrilian]

I'm just amazed they think there's this idle population waiting to surge into the fields. The idle part of our rural population is actively killing itself off. They're in no shape to do anything productive.

Haiti has a ton of population growth if that were the measure they should have colonized the solar system by now. Capital is the key period any economist worth his or her wait in salt will tell you that. The control of capital is everything. It is why a tiny country like England is in the G5.

[Elegiac]

There was no deal.

There was. Stop lying.

[Vatrilian]

Or that they think losing Mexican labor means more jobs for Americans.

The entire reason we now have machine-harvestable tomatoes is because of immigration crackdowns. Deporting illegals just means more automation.

So your answer is to import more low skilled labor despite us moving to more and more automation?

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There was. Stop lying.

A deal with Lindsay Graham?? He is one Senator

[GreenGoldSharpie]

Haiti has a ton of population growth if that were the measure they should have colonized the solar system by now. Capital is the key period any economist worth his or her wait in salt will tell you that. The control of capital is everything. It is why a tiny country like England is in the G5.

Great, now why don't you tell who the fuck is going to pick my strawberries. It sure is going to be opioid addicted rural white guy.

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So your answer is to import more low skilled labor despite us moving to more and more automation?

As opposed to placating to a sedentary rural population that is eating, drinking, and drugging itself to death while morally dictating to the rest of the country how we all suck?

Yeah, I'm okay with that.

[Elegiac]

So your answer is to import more low skilled labor despite us moving to more and more automation?

It's not 'my answer' because I don't particularly care about 'American jobs'; either low wage immigrant workers will do those jobs, or they will be automated.

My concern is making sure the economy remains at a stable level of growth, which requires more immigration and more consumers, and not deporting people to satisfy a bunch of idiots.

A deal with Lindsay Graham?? He is one Senator

Most of the Senators at the meeting were in favor of the bill, it's not just 'Lindsay Graham'.

The reason the deal was scuttled was because of fringe extremists like Cotton.

[Vatrilian]

And speaking as an Australian, Australian immigration policy is -also- racist and detrimental to the country's future prospects.



The Center for Immigration Studies is -not- bipartisan, it has a stated goal of reducing all forms of immigration.



Oh look, someone who buys into the myth that it's about economics.

I'll give you a hint: immigration of 'doctors' and other upper middle class professionals is not what the US needs by a long shot. The US needs more workers of all socioeconomic classes, and it needs more consumers.

They are Bi-partisan as they have Democrat members including house members. More Bi-partisan than the Graham amnesty. They have done the most advance immigration long term study that is fact based period.
An economy can not be based solely on consumption. Take the average immigrant that comes to this country and drops 3 kids. They have to be educated at 15 thousand a shot. That simple benefit will destroy any economic benefit they would bring.

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This is just false.

They are not illegal aliens. They are legal because of DACA.

What expense are the American people making in supporting DACA? This is an important question to judge the funding options.

What does anything have to do with a CR? Sure, we could go forward approving a CR without DACA but we found a way to do so just before the shutdown. Trump shot it down. Now our government is without direction because the person at the helm is a child running loose with a megaphone.

They are part of deferred action that does not mean they are legal. So again another person agrees democrats shut down the gov for illegal aliens. No agreement was made. The graham amnesty would not have gotten out of committee. You cant have one republican senator and call it bi-partisan.

[Lenonis]

What happened? Did threads get merged? Or this get moved to the politics sub forum? Cause suddenly there is a 17 page thread....that I'm just not going to catch up on.

So, to probably state what has been already stated...the GOP controls all branches of the government and the head of the GOP not only blew up the bipartisan deal but he also stated that government shutdowns are the fault of the president.

There is no rational way to place the majority of the blame anywhere other than at the feet of the GOP.

The party of obstruction just doesn't know how to govern. They admitted as much.

[Elegiac]

They are Bi-partisan as they have Democrat members including house members. More Bi-partisan than the Graham amnesty. They have done the most advance immigration long term study that is fact based period.

Do you actually know what the Center for Immigration Studies is? It's not a government institution and is about as bipartisan as the Heritage Foundation. I.e. Not at all.

An economy can not be based solely on consumption. Take the average immigrant that comes to this country and drops 3 kids. They have to be educated at 15 thousand a shot. That simple benefit will destroy any economic benefit they would bring.

Market capitalist economies are always based on consumption. This is a basic economic fact; it's funny how the deplorables like to worship Adam Smith's free market policies and then deny his statement that consumption is paramount to healthy economies.

Also; no. Education is not a liability, it is an investment as those three kids will generate far more economic benefit over their lifetimes. But keep making idiotic assertions that apply equally to lower income Americans.

[Vatrilian]

What happened? Did threads get merged? Or this get moved to the politics sub forum? Cause suddenly there is a 17 page thread....that I'm just not going to catch up on.

So, to probably state what has been already stated...the GOP controls all branches of the government and the head of the GOP not only blew up the bipartisan deal but he also stated that government shutdowns are the fault of the president.

There is no rational way to place the majority of the blame anywhere other than at the feet of the GOP.

The party of obstruction just doesn't know how to govern. They admitted as much.

The Democrat party voted to not fund the government the Republican voted too fund the government what is hard about this?

[Elegiac]

The Democrat party voted to not fund the government the Republican voted too fund the government what is hard about this?

Why did the Republicans just block a motion to fund the military through the shutdown, then?

[GreenGoldSharpie]

What happened? Did threads get merged? Or this get moved to the politics sub forum? Cause suddenly there is a 17 page thread....that I'm just not going to catch up on.

Got moved over here. Dude is going to repeat the same thing over and over, say some shit bashing urban areas, and some vaguely racist twaddle. So, you know, typical immigration discussion with the right.

[Lenonis]

The Democrat party voted to not fund the government the Republican voted too fund the government what is hard about this?

Putting forward a bill they know wouldn't pass isn't "voting to fund the government." I suspect if the situation was reversed you wouldn't be putting forward the same so-called logic.

[Machismo]

I disagree. The entire reason we have not seen wage growth in this country is because we import millions of low skilled people from other countries. Illegal aliens cost the Us government 113 Billion dollars net a year. Does not sound so pro-business so someone can have a cheap cleaning lady?

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So by definition Democrats are holding the country hostage to get what they want Amnesty for millions of illegal aliens at the expense of the American people. Was wrong when the republicans did it to Obama and it is wrong now.

It's a restriction of the free markets, an artificial denial of the free movement of labor capital. You can disagree all you like, but it makes competition and operation within the marketplace more difficult. That's fundamentally the same as trying to argue that increasing the minimum wage is a pro-business strategy.

You are mistaking welfare issues with the actions of a company, they are two completely different issues.

Also, if you are going to say Democrats are holding the country hostage (something that is false by definition of the word), then you must also say that the Republicans are doing the exact same thing.

[Vatrilian]

Do you actually know what the Center for Immigration Studies is? It's not a government institution and is about as bipartisan as the Heritage Foundation. I.e. Not at all.



Market capitalist economies are always based on consumption. This is a basic economic fact; it's funny how the deplorables like to worship Adam Smith's free market policies and then deny his statement that consumption is paramount to healthy economies.

Also; no. Education is not a liability, it is an investment as those three kids will generate far more economic benefit over their lifetimes. But keep making idiotic assertions that apply equally to lower income Americans.

Education is a cost. When they come here they will never be able to give back what they took to the American people. And if they apply equally to lower income Americans it is up to us to improve them not bring in more. They are Americans that is the difference and last time I checked this country was run for the betterment of Americans. Loading a country with more consumers is not a economic model to follow. Africa has had huge population growth but lack one thing: Capital.

[Elegiac]

Education is a cost.

Every investment carries a cost.

When they come here they will never be able to give back what they took to the American people.

I'm fairly sure that any given consumer generates far more than 15,000 in tax revenue and market demand over their lives, so no; stop lying.

And if they apply equally to lower income Americans it is up to us to improve them not bring in more. They are Americans that is the difference and last time I checked this country was run for the betterment of Americans. Loading a country with more consumers is not a economic model to follow. Africa has had huge population growth but lack one thing: Capital.

America has plenty of capital, but is lacking consumers.

[Vatrilian]

It's a restriction of the free markets, an artificial denial of the free movement of labor capital. You can disagree all you like, but it makes competition and operation within the marketplace more difficult. That's fundamentally the same as trying to argue that increasing the minimum wage is a pro-business strategy.

You are mistaking welfare issues with the actions of a company, they are two completely different issues.

By importing low cost labor it pushes wages down this is an economic certainty. You need some protectionism, what used to be the hallmark of the democrat party, to encourage and support American labor and people.

[Elegiac]

By importing low cost labor it pushes wages down this is an economic certainty. You need some protectionism, what used to be the hallmark of the democrat party, to encourage and support American labor and people.

That hasn't changed.

If you're complaining that wages are too low, why the hell do you keep supporting a party that blocks minimum wage increases?

[Vatrilian]

Every investment carries a cost.



I'm fairly sure that any given consumer generates far more than 15,000 in tax revenue and market demand over their lives, so no; stop lying.



America has plenty of capital, but is lacking consumers.

A consumer that makes under 35,000 a year will not be able to pay back a kid being educated at 15 thousand a pop. Not to mention the vast welfare state that exists its basic math. We need to invest in Americans not illegal aliens.

[GreenGoldSharpie]

A consumer that makes under 35,000 a year will not be able to pay back a kid being educated at 15 thousand a pop. Not to mention the vast welfare state that exists its basic math. We need to invest in Americans not illegal aliens.

You still haven't laid out any plan for creating a migratory picking class made up of white rural workers who have refused to move out of their shithole towns for decades now.