Why are night elves not protesting Tyrande?

[Airwaves]

Already incorrect, so I don't see why I should continue reading.

The High King of the Alliance has been a human. And those humans command all the forces of the alliance. Anduin automatically getting the role is bullshit however. Council of Three Hammers should have command of the alliance forces now imo.

[vilememory]

All the elves that were pissed at Tyrande joined Fandral Staghelm, and well... we all know how that turned out for the old Fire Druids.

[LazarusLong]

They actually do? The story of Leyara is exactly that.

Also Maiev in Wolfheart novel.

[Deleted]

Because Blizzard made Malfurion, Illidan and Tyrande and then made the rest of the race have little to no identity.

A lot of races/factions are overshadowed by usually a single character, like Theramore was basically "Jaina's Town" or the Forsaken were "Sylvanas' undead" and usually if there's every any development of another character or group rising up in the race, they're adversaries like the Human's nobles or Staghelm.

So yeah, Night elves are in the shadow of those 3 and the entire race will remain faceless with a few exceptions being characters connected to those 3.

That's a great point and one of the reasons I advocate for a full purge of all the faction leaders and major characters.

Full reboot, focusing more on a lot of minor characters rather than a few major characters.

That way you get characters, not mascots. Stormwind doesn't become "Wrynville" and the humans don't become "Anduin and Friends"

A great example is the Nightborne, they aren't just Thalyssra and friends, the entire cast of the Suramar questline showed a great deal of diversity, from posh nobles, eccentric tinkers, shady scoundrels, kind hearted tavern owners, an oppulent court of aristocrats, and streets of downtrodden lowborn.

There's actually nuance to be found. Sure we don't get to know what Sylvanas' favourite cereal is but the game's an MMO it has to work with what it's got.

[Nathasil]

Most of what you say is true, sadly, but the reason for this is notr Tyrande, it's Blizzard's intention of how to tell their story.

In WC3 Nightelves clearly overshadowed both the Horde and the Alliance. They were the most powerful race on Azeroth, while Horde and Alliance were both pretty much finished. Coming from WC3 it would have been more plausible to have the Nightelves and the Scourge as the two dominating factions. But Blizzard decided against that and forced the state back to a setting closer to WC2 - at this point the Nightleves were simply in the way and they knew they had to be cautious to never ever tell them the WC3 way again, ir they would simply steal the show from Horde&Alliance.

So that is what they went with and will probably never change, because even inside the Alliance Blizzard does not allow Nightelves to take the lead. It always has to be a Human. A Wrynn Human, to be precise.

They rewrote Tyrande just like they did all Nightelves. So why protest her? If anything, she is the most obvious lorepoint of how much Blizzard has forsaken the WC3 Nightelves.

[Dziubla]

Probably because majority of night elves are rather old, not angry 12 year old horde fanboys from MMO-C, so...they don't care?

[Wilfire]

The Night Elves abandoned their legacy when they rejected the Arcane for no reason at all. Yes the Arcane used to be dangerous and drew the attention of the Burning Legion but then it was retconned. Almost every race on Azeroth has managed to master some source of power without suffering any drawbacks. Demon Hunters wield the Fel on par with demons without being corrupted. Now the Void Elves are using the FRIGGIN VOID itself, the most corrupting force in the universe, without giving in to madness. The Night Elves are sore losers and the only race that had to abandon its legacy because of... reasons? They are the elvish version of rednecks, living in wooden shacks in a forest. The Nightborne are the true successors of the Night Elf Empire of old and they have a glorious city. If I were a Night Elf I'd join the Nightborne.

The Night Elves became Redneck Elves under Tyrande's leadership. Maybe the burning of Teldrassil will make them wake up and stop being sheeple.

[Deleted]

So, under Tyrande's leadership the following has happened to the race

-Joined the Alliance, where they are governed by a human
-They have lost or are currently losing an enormous amount of land (Ashenvale, Azhara, Stonetalon, Feralas, - to the horde and Felwood + Darkshore to external forces. In Siege of Orgrimmar Tyrande even says she agreed to give Azhara's lumber to the horde, while they were weak and without a leader.
-Lost their immortality
-In BfA - their capital is destroyed, along with countless civilians of their race
-In Pandaria - they were unable to get their immortality back
- In Legion, she failed to prevent Furion from getting captured and subsequently failed to save Ysera.

Now, I know many of those were not her fault and it's possible to assume that, had it been anyone else in here place, all those bad things would still have happened.
But it does bother me that in BfA we get a Sylvanas storyline where there is a rebellion against her, even though she has been massively successful with almost every single goal she has set. When the Forsaken got half of the Eastern Kingdoms b/c of her leadership in Cata.

Am I missing something or is Tyrande just a really badly written character/night elf lore is getting shafted?

The lore has always taken the backseat, to even have World of Warcraft in the first place a lot of concessions had to be made and most WC3's established lore was either bastardized or altered to fit the MMO. The night elves shouldn't even be in the Alliance in the first place. Their original representation as a race was very, very powerful, they could have been their own faction. The night elves we see in game only vaguely resemble what they once were.

Keep in mind what we were introduced to as 'night elfs' in vanilla was a watered down iteration to begin with. Tyrande, the night elves in general and practically all of the races get shafted - or rather they take turns - to advance the 'story'. No matter how nonsensical it gets.

[Deleted]

Because Blizzard made Malfurion, Illidan and Tyrande and then made the rest of the race have little to no identity.

A lot of races/factions are overshadowed by usually a single character, like Theramore was basically "Jaina's Town" or the Forsaken were "Sylvanas' undead" and usually if there's every any development of another character or group rising up in the race, they're adversaries like the Human's nobles or Staghelm.

So yeah, Night elves are in the shadow of those 3 and the entire race will remain faceless with a few exceptions being characters connected to those 3.

Except Illidan in Legion, Mal and Tyrande have little to no identity either.

[Deleted]

Because Blizzard isn't going to waste ressources to write Story for the Alliance. It isn't even going to waste any programming ressources for the Alliance, look at the Allied Races of the Alliance where all of them are just reskins with new hair and then to those of the Horde, where 1 is a reskin with new horns and 2 are totally freshly designed new races on the basis of old models.

[Qualia]

The High King of the Alliance has been a human. And those humans command all the forces of the alliance. Anduin automatically getting the role is bullshit however. Council of Three Hammers should have command of the alliance forces now imo.

That's incorrect. Blizzard already said that the High King does not have absolute authority, even with just the fighting forces of the Alliance, much less the entire Alliance. It's more of a figurehead role to bind all other members together, and if other members don't want to, they can legally ignore what the High King said just fine.

While there are others who could take the High "X" (King, Prophet, Priestess, etc.) role, Anduin getting the role isn't strange. He is leader of the most populated and powerful faction inside the Alliance (the humans). He is favored by most of other leaders (Genn, Velen, Moira, Magni, Aysa) and the one who didn't have much interactions with him (Tyrande and Merkatorque) had good relationships with his father. He is also young, idealistic, and having good affinity with the Light - all can be viewed as positive traits for a figurehead / public leader. With all that said, Anduin taking the role isn't really that much of a bullshit, especially when the role doesn't grant him much more authority over the other leaders (which means if he gives bad commands due to his inexperience, other leaders can just tell him off - and Anduin probably wouldn't mind it as much compared to, for example, Tyrande if she is told off by Genn).

(Weird, why is this issue suddenly pop back up again? Did a lot people just all forget what Blizzard said or something, as I'm sure I've just had to explain the same thing a few days ago to someone else)

The Night Elves defeated the legion and Azshara's Highborne with the forces of nature.

Forces of nature, greatly empowered by the Dragon Soul which was an arcane artifact, you meant Assuming you are talking about WoTA since you mentioned the Highborne.

[CostinR]

Because Blizzard has focused the vast majority of their story telling capabilities on others but the Night Elves. Tyrande and Furion are but a sideshow to the main events. Same with the gnomes, trolls and other races.

[valky94]

--Joining was good for them initially.
--Yeah, Horde's been fucking up Ashenvale for years.
--Wait, didn't they regain immortality when Hyjal was healed by druids and Thrall/Earthen Ring during the Mid-Cata era?
--Hasn't happened yet, but that'd just be a rally cry moment.
--The Divine Bell or something?
--Malfurion's to blame for Val'sharah going to shit. He impulsively chased after Xavius, instead of thinking for a moment. He chased, got caught, and inevitably lead to Ysera's death.

nope, nozdormu didnt bless the new world tree like he did the first one, so they arent immortal anymore

[Lyssander]

Night Elven society is theocratic. To them Tyrande is a representative of Elune, and, beeing religious they wouldn't think about opposing her.

[Magnagarde]

You honestly haven't made even one valid point as to why Blizzard should write that. They aren't governed by humans(their society is led by Tyrande, Malfurion and Shandris), they've willingly lost their immortality to save all of Azeroth, their capital is destroyed through unknown ways and reasons to which we'll have to first witness to talk about, they've started losing land because of the orcs - who have been pushing North from Orgrimmar into night elf lands - even before WoW's timeline(which is why they've joined the Alliance who have actually saved Ashenvale together with their forces), Ysera couldn't be saved whereas Malfurion could(in addition to the fact that Xavius exploits the weakness of one's mind and the fact that he overpowered the likes of Ysera and Cenarius).

[Every Pwny]

Malfurion was the one who gave up their immortality, he was also the one that ran off got captured and got Ysera killed with the corrupted tears of Elune. Tyrande defended the temple and cleansed Ysera who appears later in the emerald dream. Malfurion is also co-leader of the night elves, Tyrande basically makes no decisions in the story since WC3.

[Blockbuster1Video1055]

I think under the circumstances she could have done worse. I like Tyrande she is very wise.

[DeicideUH]

Dumbest topic ever. At least get your facts straight.

If anything, Malfurion's neutral stance against Horde, even when Horde was invading Ashenvale in Cataclysm, is way worse than anything Tyrande has done. At least she fought the Horde every opportunity she could. Malfurion's the one that, between trees and his people, chooses to side with the trees.

-Joined the Alliance, where they are governed by a human
Wrong, they are ruled by Tyrande and Malfurion not a human. And joining the Alliance got them allies. It would be way worse if they stood alone against the Horde.

-They have lost or are currently losing an enormous amount of land
They lost Azshara for now, and have done so to try to end the Horde aggression. And that's it.
The Horde aggression is building up again only now.

-Lost their immortality
It was either that or be all dead. And Tyrande has nothing to do with that at all.

-In BfA - their capital is destroyed, along with countless civilians of their raceb
We didn't see it yet, why are you blaming it on Tyrande?

-In Pandaria - they were unable to get their immortality back
Tyrande has nothing to do with that. And the immortality water they were researching was a fake all along.

- In Legion, she failed to prevent Furion from getting captured and subsequently failed to save Ysera.
Actually, situation got resolved once she came in and interfered.

[Deleted]

Dumbest topic ever. At least get your facts straight.

I can see the community is as reasonable and welcoming as ever.

Again - you are missing the point. We can argue about every single one of these claims separately. The broader question I am asking is - even if none of this is objectively her fault - why are her people not displeased with the current situation?

If you find this interesting, I'd love to hear your opinion. But it's not interesting or constructive if you just flame without trying to engage with the broader idea of the discussion.

[DeicideUH]

Again - you are missing the point. We can argue about every single one of these claims separately. The broader question I am asking is - even if none of this is objectively her fault - why are her people not displeased with the current situation?

Being displeased with the situation does not equal blaming Tyrande for it.

I called the topic dumb because most of the reasoning behind it was weak (to say the least). Like, for instance, somehow linking an scholar's research on immortality in Pandaria as something the night elf population as a whole would have faith in (or even knowledge of), and then the failure to achieve its goal would be somehow be blamed on Tyrande.

But, if you truly after a good discussion, I can agree that the feeling of being constantly betrayed by the Horde could eventually lead to unrest among the night elves. But I don't see their society as a single whole, unrest wouldn't mean the night elves would all be claiming for Tyrande's resignation. Maybe factions would arise proposing solutions and challenging Tyrande's leadership. The problem to discuss that is: that hasn't happened yet.

The torching of Teldrassil may indeed lead to that. That's a major loss of life, land and belongings, a terrible blow to their culture and pride. But, since the event hasn't happened yet, we don't know the details behind it. For all we know, Tyrande could very well die in the event. Or, the opposite, her heroic efforts save most of her people, and they rally behind her even more, now with the backing of the whole Alliance to avenge their fallen.

Personally, I like races that does not behave like drones, all individuals agreeing with each other. I've been advocating for the races to be further developed with multiple inside factions that do not completely agree with each other, but all believe in their race. Just like blood elves have magisters, blood knights, farstriders, the Reliquary, Sunreavers and other subgroups, the night elves could be divided into Sentinels, Watchers, Priesthood of Elune, a new order of arcanists (formed by highborne and Moonguard, maybe?), a night elf-only group of druids and others, each with their own leadership, some of those challenging Tyrande's leadership.

That's what I think of this topic. I would welcome unrest, I just don't think it should be so simple as "hey, everyone is mad at Tyrande now".