A new Warchief for the Horde

[Zulkhan]

Hey atleast he didn't exile some Tauren for fighting back against the legion.

Heh, I want to be fair with the bull: he's possibly the only Horde leader who ever held such a big debt to an Alliance one. Without Jaina he would have never got his city back and his entire people would have fallen under Grimtotem's rule and most likely out of the Horde. And debts for people valuing "honor" are quite a shitty deal. Anduin shared a few these issues without bearing anything of the sort. Which is why I believe Baine could come out of that crap as a more mature and reliable leader.

[Aeula]

Heh, I want to be fair with the bull: he's possibly the only Horde leader who ever held such a big debt to an Alliance one. Without Jaina he would have never got his city back and his entire people would have fallen under Grimtotem's rule and most likely out of the Horde. And debts for people valuing "honor" are quite a shitty deal. Anduin shared a few these issues without bearing anything of the sort. Which is why I believe Baine could come out of that crap as a more mature and reliable leader.

I don't think I can ever look past him exiling his own people simply for speaking of retaliation against the Alliance.

If only Magatha's plot had succeeded. Then the Tauren would have someone they could respect somewhat. For her political shrewdness if nothing else.

[Zulkhan]

but why does he need to be Warchief of the Horde? If i want a faction leader like Anduin, I can just hop on my Alliance toons and I'll have it, I don't need to turn the Horde into that.

I don't honestly think Baine needs that (as I said, I voted him merely because I could choose more than one, I would easily put Thrall, Lor'themar and hell, even a Sylvanas 2.0 over Baine) it's more the fact that many of the reasons for why he wouldn't fit the role are the same for why Anduin shouldn't have fitted his own place of power. The funny thing is, those reasons were right for Anduin too. However, he's the proof that characters can progress and change once given the chance to develop.

So yeah, truth be told I don't think he needs to become Warchief but I think he can develop into something much better and become something more than "lol cairne's kid".

The two factions should have considerably distinct leaders and ideologies, otherwise, the only difference between them is the city you happen to buy heirlooms in.

Well we had Garrosh and Varian for a while and they weren't really that different.

[Kithelle]

That's why they vote for him, there's a lot of people that want a Beefy version of Anduin as a Horde leader for some damn reason, even though not even Anduin would do what he did in ToW. Also, Alliance players don't like when the Horde figurehead badmouths them, so they vote for the one who licks thier boots the hardest, and is more in line with thier ideology.

The only benefit of having Baine in charge is that Blizzard might not play spin the Warchief after one expansion because he's pretty much the Horde's goodie two shoes, and they can't write pragmatic- Horde aligned leaders without inevitably killing them.

Ehh...I'm Alliance and I didn't vote for him...but to be honest I'd take just about anyone up there on the list to get rid of Sylvanas except for Gallywix

[ManiaCCC]

Well we had Garrosh and Varian for a while and they weren't really that different.

Yea, that's true. That's why I think current situation is best we ever had. Both leaders are very different so ideally, this will drag for a while. Horde really needs some lasting warchief and what is better (for faction lore, war and pride) when alliance players hate Sylvanas sooo much while horde players think Alliance new king is some incompetent youngster (and hate Genn). I really don't want Alliance and Horde to get along at least for a while. This is how they can make it.

[Deleted]

Yea, that's true. That's why I think current situation is best we ever had. Both leaders are very different so ideally, this will drag for a while. Horde really needs some lasting warchief and what is better (for faction lore, war and pride) when alliance players hate Sylvanas sooo much while horde players think Alliance new king is some incompetent youngster (and hate Genn). I really don't want Alliance and Horde to get along at least for a while. This is how they can make it.

The problem is, we Horde are stuck with yet another selfish **** of a warchief.

As a Horde player, I respect Anduin about a million times more than Sylvanas. Hell I'll give her to Genn myself if I could.

I would even prefer Gallywix over Sylvanas.

[Zulkhan]

I don't think I can ever look past him exiling his own people simply for speaking of retaliation against the Alliance.

Well it was a soft exile (out of Thunder Bluff, not out of Tauren lands) and probably didn't want those Tauren to go full suicide mode to get their revenge on the Alliance. The war was at a stalemate of sort in Tides of War until Garrosh didn't rekindle it.

The way he tried to rationalize the bombarding of Taurajo is something I disliked more. Not because he was wrong, technically speaking he was right; but it wasn't something he should have said. That was the proof of how that debt with Jaina plagued him and got his priorities wrong as a consequence.

If only Magatha's plot had succeeded. Then the Tauren would have someone they could respect somewhat. For her political shrewdness if nothing else.

Magatha could never inspire true loyalty among the Tauren people, she could at most manipulate them in order to keep them in line.

With her Tauren would also probably leave the Horde, since the only circumstance in which she was willing to remain in it was when she believed she could control and manipulate the active Warchief (Garrosh).

[ManiaCCC]

The problem is, we Horde are stuck with yet another selfish **** of a warchief.

As a Horde player, I respect ANduin about a million times more than Sylvanas. Hell I'll give her to Genn myself if I could.

Well, it depends how many are there like you.

For me, Garrosh was really good warchief for horde, too bad, they really made him racist and basically bad person. But he was respectable, he was terrifying in look and how he was dealing with things, yet, he had his sense of honor(before mop). Writers gutted him but I think Sylvana is somewhat similar. Yes, she is selfish but for a good reason(when you play forsaken zones and story and you are dealing with Sylvanas, it all make sense from that perspective, maybe she is just too soft sometimes). She is powerhouse, is respected by other horde leaders even if they have some reservations and she NEEDS horde to be strong and she will do anything to keep horde strong. That's in my book just perfect. Two leaders, different approach, different view but sharing the goal (on opposite site).

For me, as some random horde player, while I don't agree with every decision she made, she is respectable and I think there is even space for many surprises which won't be out of her character (it is different with Anduin, he is one dimensional for now, so writers really have to make good job to develop him in some meaningful way without screwing him hard.)

[Alex86el]

Baine Bloodhoof - I dont doubt his intentions, but he is not Horde matterial. Baine, Cairne, Thrall. Those three are too soft and honorable for the Horde. Even Thrall saw that and it was one of the reasons he stepped down.

Jastor Gallywix - The Horde would acomplish a lot with him at the wheel. But he is too smart to become warchief. He can push his agendas without taking any blame. I think he likes it where he is.

Ji Firepaw - Are you kidding me? The few Pandaren that joined the Horde are suppsoed to be thrillseeking hotheaded youngsters. Not a good choice.

Lor'themar Theron - Blood Elves and Forsaken, are barely "Horde". Who would trust them? For all we know, next year they might join the <insert whatever faction that doesnt make sense whatsoever>.

Mayla Highmountain See Baine.

Sylvanas Windrunner (again) - Terrible choice for a leader. Unstable and selfish. Uses her own people for her own benefit. Is warchief only because of her emo-weeb fanbois.

First Arcanist Thalyssra - No one wants an ungrateful coward opportunistic junkie as their leader.

Thrall (again) - See Baine.

Varok Saurfang - He is a great choice. He is savage enough to be accepted by the Orcs/Trolls, but has also shown signs of honor and reason.

Other - Rastakhan would be a great choice imo. The Zandalari are somewhat civilized considering they are Trolls, and they are second or third in numbers, among the Horde races.


Personally, i liked Vol'jin more than any other warchief.
I believe he was excellent for the role. (Saurfang second).
He was wise and cunning. Without having such an aggressive/expansive stance.
Like Garrosh or Sylvanas who always brought trouble to the Horde, and perpetuate their (certainly justified) image of "bad-guys".

[Deleted]

For me, the Warchief has to be an Orc. But not an old one like Saurfang. And Thrall neither. Him i could only imagine as a great shaman of the horde. Some kind of adviser. But the kind of adviser who turns on the warchief, as soon as something doesn't go the way he imagines it. He also still doesn't know what it means to be an Orc. He is nothing more than a green human. And even if he knows a bit more, we would just get WoD Frostwolf kinda Orcs. Not my thing.

Any other race feels wrong for me, at least for an extended period of time. Sylvanas is the best choice at the moment, she is as experienced a military leader as Saurfang, but had more successes. I'm interested to see what story the book will tell about her and her relationships to the other racial leader of the Horde. I think until the BfA Cinematic Trailer happens in the timeline, these relationships will change a bit. If they were as bad as in the latest ingame cinematic, Saurfang wouldn't probably even be at Undercity, nore reacting in the way to Sylvanas "For the Horde", as he does.

The character Baine, for me at least, was irreparably damaged by his character story so far. There were some shenanigans which just aren't acceptable at all. Especially not only abandoning your people against the alliance by not protecting them, no, he even exiled a part of them. Any other leader in a proper told story would have had a bunch of rebels hunting his ass for that. Even Cairne would have kicked his Sons Ass for something like that. Cairne never hesitated to protect his tribe or the Tauren as a people like that. But noooo, most of the Tauren have become god damned pushovers, peace lovers, rather hiding behind a wall picking flowers, instead of showing the Alliance what happens, if you attack their people. Obviously not much. And even in this new cinematic, yes, he sounds a bit more grown up, but still acted like an arrogant ass, underestimating Gallywix far too much. Also that line "And get eaten, if they're not careful" was awful at best. Now he not only a potential traitor and friend to the alliance, a potential traitor to his own people, naive, no, now he is arrogant too. Awesome. I don't have any hope, that Blizzard can turn that character around.

They should use the Warfronts and this War Campaign which was announced to build up some proper character for the races, among them some young Orcs with potential, who could have some traits of Garrosh, Saurfang, maybe even characters like Orgrim etc, and who are not planned to become a damned cliche villain.

[ello]

I don't honestly think Baine needs that (as I said, I voted him merely because I could choose more than one, I would easily put Thrall, Lor'themar and hell, even a Sylvanas 2.0 over Baine) it's more the fact that many of the reasons for why he wouldn't fit the role are the same for why Anduin shouldn't have fitted his own place of power. The funny thing is, those reasons were right for Anduin too. However, he's the proof that characters can progress and change once given the chance to develop.

So yeah, truth be told I don't think he needs to become Warchief but I think he can develop into something much better and become something more than "lol cairne's kid".

I'm not saying he can't develop into something better, he can(though I'll personally probably continue to find him boring as sin), I just think his character is fundamentally cut from the same cloth as guys like Anduin so I would rather he stay away from the faction leader title.

The real dream scenario here is rezz Vol'jin and let Sylvanas step down(since she doesn't want the job anyways), that would be great.

Well we had Garrosh and Varian for a while and they weren't really that different.

Varian did change a lot in Cata-MoP though. In WOTLK they were very similar, and it was nice because we had the Alliance as the aggressive faction and that balanced out Thrall nicely, but then when Garrosh took over Varian began his #reformed journey and by MoP, he wasn't really the same guy.

[Powerogue]

Varok and Baine were pretty awesome in the new cutscene, but no one can take the title away from BASIC ADVANCED CAMPFIRE!

[Syegfryed]

with Golden ahead the story writing we could expect a good development for Baine, that cinematic show him like an Adult, more like his father but on his own

for me the lore basically died after ToT with bullshit followed by bullshit, everything beyond that was just bad, simple bad with sparks of good lore like suramar, basically because i feel the people wiring the lore don't know the lore, they just do and change what they want, at least we could expect Golden know about it

[DrMcNinja]

[Zulkhan]

The real dream scenario here is rezz Vol'jin and let Sylvanas step down(since she doesn't want the job anyways), that would be great.

On that I agree, mostly because Vol'jin's nomination back in MoP needs to have a bigger meaning than keeping the seat warm for Sylvanas, especially after all the development and hints delivered in Shadows of the Horde.

Ideally, I would like for Vol'jin to eventually be replaced for good (not necessarily by dying, much like Sylvanas he could step down) by a worthy Orc candidate who manages to connect the Horde's roots to what the Horde is today (basically what Garrosh failed to do). But before that could happen that character needs to be created/developed. During that time, I think Vol'jin should serve as a long bridge for that while playing a meaningful role until that point.

[Maljinwo]

On that I agree, mostly because Vol'jin's nomination back in MoP needs to have a bigger meaning than keeping the seat warm for Sylvanas, especially after all the development and hints delivered in Shadows of the Horde.

Ideally, I would like for Vol'jin to eventually be replaced for good (not necessarily by dying, much like Sylvanas he could step down) by a worthy Orc candidate who manages to connect the Horde's roots to what the Horde is today (basically what Garrosh failed to do). But before that could happen that character needs to be created/developed. During that time, I think Vol'jin should serve as a long bridge for that while playing a meaningful role until that point.

Vol'jin owes me the whole "Future of trollkind" Sen'jin worked him up to in his loa dreams