Battle for Azeroth Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Hitei]

Unfortunately you missed the third option, that is, not join forsaken but find your own way in the world(so long you are not hostile to forsaken, of course).

And since the ppls raised by forsaken was already died, the "to be killed again" option is not as bad as asking a living to choose between life and death.

That third option doesn't really exist. I know you're referring to the rotbrains, but also remember that the only person who says that's a valid choice is your character (read: a brand new Forsaken who woke up like 15 minutes before). Re the devs,

if the risen corpse has not been destroyed, they are given the same ultimatum that other Forsaken are offered: join the Dark Lady or return to the grave.

Forsaken who are third party are a rarity. If anything, I think it's more likely that they just managed to escape or run and join a protective faction than that leaving the Forsaken is a valid choice.

And I very much disagree with your assessment of the death choice.. Just because you've died once doesn't mean you're suddenly okay with dying. People who have drowned or been in a car crash or suffered some other traumatic near death event typically become more afraid of that event happening, not fine with it.

[rcshaggy]

I was looking into the Silithus the Wound requirement, but now do I have to complete the whole Argus Raid?
Can I just do Argus and complete it on LFR so I can have the wound unlocked and is this account wide so my alts will see the new zone?

[Pigglix]

On my alt i only did the lfr last wing of antorus of (aggramar and argus) and the quest for silithus unlocked for her (after relogin)

Edit: Its not acc wide, you gotta kill argus on every toon you want to do the quest

[Ningjinq]

I’m fine with them updating the black one, but ALL the Qiraji mounts should be updated. How many people would not want them updated? Like 2 people?

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Unfortunately Aggramar and Argus are both wipefests in lfr at the moment. Thankfully I got what I wanted out of there so I don’t have to go back. http://www.wowhead.com/item=152005/p...onus=3613:1457 Such amazing shoulders for my Zandalari Hunter.

[Merryck]

Anyone else think Void Elves were supposed to be Undead Elves originally?

nope
/10char

[huth]

Anyone else think Void Elves were supposed to be Undead Elves originally?

Those would just fall under Forsaken. So no. Blizzard probably intentionally gave the Alliance a Void race to pair with the Lightforged.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

Anyone else think Void Elves were supposed to be Undead Elves originally?

HIIIIIIIIIIGHLY doubtful. High Elves, maybe. But no way Blizz at one point wanted Undead Elves on Alliance. I mean that's Sylvanas' people moreso than the regular Forsaken.

[Ash123]

That third option doesn't really exist.

It does exist, rotbrains are perfect examples (though they abused it and paid for it), and a more positive example is Lilian Voss.

Sure, this is arguably the hardest choice among the three since you need to be strong to survive in a world that is hostile against undead, but that choice is indeed there.

And even if you choose to join the forsaken, there are example in the game in which undead leave forsaken to join a neutral one (Argent Crusade) without suffering any consequence, which means you have the freedom to leave forsaken.

The freewill principle of forsaken does not and could not apply to the situation regarding whether the people want to be raised in the first place. There is no way to ask them without raising them first. And the corpse is technically not a forsaken before being raised.The freewill principle can not be applied to the moments right after the corpses are raised in battle, as the subjects are not capable of rational thinking yet.

That is to say, the freewill principle of forsaken only applies to the undead who are raised and are capable of making decision. For this case, all quests/lores are very consistent in this matter: forsaken not only can think freely without being mind controlled, but can indeed make their own choice regarding personal allegiance.

It is true that, most forsaken would choose the first option since it is the easiest one (you receive immediate protection and you live with creatures that are the same as you). But before calling the choice a slave's choice or North Korea's choice, you have to realize that, in any country, during any period of history, most people would stick to the country they were born, so long as their government is relatively stable.

The choice is there, and forsaken, as a political organization, would not punish undead for taking any options. This is much more than what you can expect from most governments in world history.

And I very much disagree with your assessment of the death choice.. Just because you've died once doesn't mean you're suddenly okay with dying. People who have drowned or been in a car crash or suffered some other traumatic near death event typically become more afraid of that event happening, not fine with it.

Your argument still can not hold, people who suffered near death event are still alive, not undead. Being undead changes many things in a fundamental way, and it is not reasonable to assume that undead would think in the same way as living would.

[Underbottom]

HIIIIIIIIIIGHLY doubtful. High Elves, maybe. But no way Blizz at one point wanted Undead Elves on Alliance. I mean that's Sylvanas' people moreso than the regular Forsaken.

Didn't think they would be Alliance. Feel like it was supposed to be Undead Elves for the Horde but they had to change it half way through.

[Explicit Teemo Nudes]

[Ignore this comment - remembered it wrong] Is Gallywix the prince that is going to give the 3 lies - and not Anduin?

[Friendlyimmolation]

Is Gallywix the prince that is going to give the 3 lies - and not Anduin?

Gallywix is a balding fat old goblin. Not really a boy.

[Underbottom]

Gallywix is probably the King of Diamonds.

[Explicit Teemo Nudes]

Gallywix is a balding fat old goblin. Not really a boy.

Ah, forgot that it was "boy... king"? I remember wrong. I thought it was "prince"(Trade Prince Gallywix), but that's not what was said.

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Gallywix is probably the King of Diamonds.

That's Magni :P

[NatePsy]

Not really, Horde made the first move by seizing a dangerous substance.

http://ptr.wowhead.com/quest=50047/free-samples

The crown has ordered SI:7 to infiltrate the goblin mining operation and collect any information we can find on this mysterious new substance. My agents have infiltrated the camp, but the clock is ticking and we need to get our hands on some extracted ore samples fast. In other words, I need someone who can take the direct approach. Someone who can handle a fight against overwhelming odds and come out alive. Take the ore samples to Khargus Stonemantle for analysis when you return.

[rda]

http://ptr.wowhead.com/quest=50047/free-samples

The crown has ordered SI:7 to infiltrate the goblin mining operation and collect any information we can find on this mysterious new substance. My agents have infiltrated the camp, but the clock is ticking and we need to get our hands on some extracted ore samples fast. In other words, I need someone who can take the direct approach. Someone who can handle a fight against overwhelming odds and come out alive. Take the ore samples to Khargus Stonemantle for analysis when you return.

If you are going to start at this level (beginner level for this argument), there are 16 pages to copy/paste from just one thread on the issue (The Alliance is the evil faction) and perhaps about as much from other threads.

I mean, really, if you want to discuss it, do so, but maybe read what has been said already.

[NatePsy]

If you are going to start at this level (beginner level for this argument), there are 25 pages to copy/paste from just one thread on the issue and perhaps about as much from other threads.

I mean, really, if you want to discuss it, do so, but maybe read what has been said already.

It could be said that he hasn't read what has been said already either and that I'm merely reminding him of that fact he seems so intent on denying.

Also how many times have you posted pointless whine posts about how "BLIZZ DIDNT GIVE ME WAT I WANTED! WAAAAHMBULANCE!"? So don't try to tell me what's pointless to discuss and what isn't when you're the poster child of it. Just, stop.

[rda]

It could be said that he hasn't read what has been said already either and that I'm merely reminding him of that fact he seems so intent on denying.

Also how many times have you posted pointless whine posts about how "BLIZZ DIDNT GIVE ME WAT I WANTED! WAAAAHMBULANCE!"? So don't try to tell me what's pointless to discuss and what isn't when you're the poster child of it. Just, stop.

I am not stopping you from posting anything, just saying that your beginner-level argument gives away that you haven't been reading anything on the issue and that perhaps you would be interested in reading it.

Post whatever you want.

[NatePsy]

I am not stopping you from posting anything, just saying that your beginner-level argument gives away that you haven't been read anything on the issue.

Post whatever you want.

Yeah sure and that's like, your opinion, bro about the whole Beginner level argument (Lol, are we really ranking arguments by levels now? Childish) Get off your horse bud. You clearly missed the part where I'm reminding Bennett that he is wrong and I don't agree with him.

I've read many things about the whole "Who attacked first" and still agree that it wasn't the Horde.

[Ghargatuloth]

Yeah sure and that's like, your opinion, bro about the whole Beginner level argument (Lol, are we really ranking arguments by levels now? Childish) Get off your horse bud. You clearly missed the part where I'm reminding Bennett that he is wrong and I don't agree with him.

I've read many things about the whole "Who attacked first" and still agree that it wasn't the Horde.

The fact that it's so easy to get caught up on who endangered who first makes it painfully obvious that no matter who got to the ore first would have started harvesting it en mass, followed shortly by being attacked by the other who would immediately know the substance is valuable and quite possibly dangerous if unchecked.

Point being, the moment Azerite became a thing, a fight was going to happen.

[rda]

Yeah sure and that's like, your opinion, bro ...

I suppose my message should have been: "There have been other threads discussing this in more detail, there is an argument that what the Alliance are doing cannot be a reason for a war, so that doesn't count as a first move. <link>" and your message should have been: "Thanks, I will read this".