Battle for Azeroth Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[NatePsy]

I suppose my message should have been: "There have been other threads discussing this in more detail, there is an argument that what the Alliance are doing cannot be a reason for a war. <link>" and your message should have been: "Thanks, I will read this".

And it'd be wasted on me because if you possess reading comprehension you will know I've been reading about the subject and still disagree. "Beginner level" reading comprehension.

[Vynestra]

Y'all it's setting in that alpha/beta will be here really soon.

I love the first few builds, they always add -SO- much stuff, and gives us a real view of how things are shaping up for bfa. I'm actually most interesting in the heart of azeroth (like I was for the artifacts) and of course balancing of tanks (but that won't be finalized more towards the end).

Also seeing all the new gear and weapons.

The initial hype followed by a long waiting period of things to be datamined and then the slow release of data over the course of the next few days while we stare and analyze to death the few things we can see until it's all datamined (or so we think) and then the small bits of things found after, then the new builds...

It's so exciting. New builds are always my favorite.


What is everyone else waiting for/excited for?

[Hitei]

The choice is there, and forsaken, as a political organization, would not punish undead for taking any options. This is much more than what you can expect from most governments in world history.

There is zero evidence of this and the devs themselves have said the exact opposite. That is why I pointed out the rotbrains. The Forsaken, as a political organization, do not say they are free to do what they want. You, the player, who has been alive for 15 minutes and knows nothing about the Forsaken, are the one who claims they can do whatever they want.

Lilian Voss is an enemy of the Forsaken. I don't know why you'd bother to bring her up as an example of being able to choose. Newly raised Forsaken have three choices. Serve the Forsaken. Die. Or run and hope the Forsaken don't kill you. When your two other options are death and near-death, you don't really have much of a choice, do you?

That is exactly why they are slaves. Nor does the recently revived time period get some sort of magical handwave. You can't pretend that them being mindless slaves doesn't mean they are slaves without free will, because they are mindless slaves. That is exactly what mindless slave means. You can't drug someone up, hypnotize them, and get them to kill someone else and then go "Well, I didn't actually take away your free will, because you weren't thinking rationally at the time, so it's fine."

The fact that you have to type out the words "the freewill principle of forsaken only applies..." says a lot. If there is a need for an "only applies" it isn't a very good freewill principle is it? And that's without even delving into all the other undeead the Forsaken utilize, i.e. ghouls, and abominations.

There are two notable Forsaken in the Argent Dawn. One who was possibly just a spy for the Forsaken (Castillian), and the other who was never part of the Forsaken, just one of the undead who was freed by Sylvanas in her initial revolt against the Scourge. Also consider what it is you are using an evidence. There are thousands, probably tens of thousands of Forsaken. The fact that a dozen or so have managed to slip into third parties should tell you how likely it is for option C to work out.

Of course people are likely to choose life over being killed. What is that supposed to prove? Most slaves worked instead of revolting and being murdered, that doesn't make them not slaves.

Your argument still can not hold, people who suffered near death event are still alive, not undead. Being undead changes many things in a fundamental way, and it is not reasonable to assume that undead would think in the same way as living would.

It very much does hold. There are numerous examples of undead fearing death (Read: Sylvanas). True death is considered, per Master Apothecary Lydon "...the harshest penalty allowed under Forsaken law." If your harshest penalty is still execution, hint hint, people are just as afraid of it as they were before being raised.

[rda]

And it'd be wasted on me because if you possess reading comprehension you will know I've been reading about the subject and still disagree. "Beginner level" reading comprehension.

Dude, you keep repeating it but it is *abundantly clear* that you haven't been reading anything. It is just that once you start bickering, you cannot stop. It's in plain sight. My first message could have been friendlier, I say so in my third message, but you cannot accept this, you already got rolling, the nick fits.

So, you want to be all cocky and say big words about how you have been reading things and just "disagree" with them? Fine, be my guest. You want to look stupid, go right ahead.

Here is what is going on in Silithus:

The Horde are digging items of huge unique power. The Alliance discover that and want to know more. So the Alliance send SI:7 to investigate and take samples. Since the site is guarded, the SI:7 guys can kill a couple of goblins. This is fine, because this is an intelligence operation. The purpose of the operation isn't to kill anyone, it's to get samples of azerite. Casualties are minimized. The Horde are doing their intelligence operations the same way.

This cannot be a reason to start a war, it is too small for that. The rules for intelligence operations are different than for other areas. Small casualties are acceptable. So, if we are talking about who started it in terms of who started a war, this does not count. And if we are talking about who started it in terms of who started, I don't know, tension, something smaller than war, then, first, the Horde started mining azerite before the Alliance did their operatio, and in general you will have to track back to Humans vs Orcs.

So what is it that you "disagree" with and why? Come on, lay your wisdom. You've read it all, remember?

Oh, who am I kidding, you didn't read shit and you have zero things to say. That's why you started at the first point of the argument - the quest text.

[Seramore]

rda's forum title is absolutely fitting for him

[tristannarutofan]

Dude, you keep repeating it but it is *abundantly clear* that you haven't been reading anything. It is just that once you start bickering, you cannot stop. It's in plain sight. My first message could have been friendlier, I say so in my third message, but you cannot accept this, you already got rolling, the nick fits.

So, you want to be all cocky and say big words about how you have been reading things and just "disagree" with them? Fine, be my guest. You want to look stupid, go right ahead.

Here is what is going on in Silithus:

The Horde are digging items of huge unique power. The Alliance discover that and want to know more. So the Alliance send SI:7 to investigate and take samples. Since the site is guarded, the SI:7 guys can kill a couple of goblins. This is fine, because this is an intelligence operation. The purpose of the operation isn't to kill anyone, it's to get samples of azerite. Casualties are minimized. The Horde are doing their intelligence operations the same way.

This cannot be a reason to start a war, it is too small for that. The rules for intelligence operations are different than for other areas. Small casualties are acceptable. So, if we are talking about who started it in terms of who started a war, this does not count. And if we are talking about who started it in terms of who started, I don't know, tension, something smaller than war, then, first, the Horde started mining azerite before the Alliance did their operatio, and in general you will have to track back to Humans vs Orcs.

So what is it that you "disagree" with and why? Come on, lay your wisdom. You've read it all, remember?

Oh, who am I kidding, you didn't read shit and you have zero things to say. That's why you started at the first point of the argument - the quest text.

As someone who knows sylvannas is blatantly going to use it as a weapon.
I think u are confusing countries in the real world refusing to stand by their spues who are caught, with ppl being ok with them murdering ppl.

But id say its irrelevant. They arent going to war because some deaths turned into more deaths. They are cus of whatever sylvannas does against the alliance (teldrassil)

- - - Updated - - -

THAT is the b.s. excuse ppl are making.

No even if the alliance burned every goblin at the stake that would be at most reason to attack the alliances military. Not destroy a civilian city

[Ghargatuloth]

As someone who knows sylvannas is blatantly going to use it as a weapon.
I think u are confusing countries in the real world refusing to stand by their spues who are caught, with ppl being ok with them murdering ppl.

But id say its irrelevant. They arent going to war because some deaths turned into more deaths. They are cus of whatever sylvannas does against the alliance (teldrassil)

- - - Updated - - -

THAT is the b.s. excuse ppl are making.

No even if the alliance burned every goblin at the stake that would be at most reason to attack the alliances military. Not destroy a civilian city

How dare you use logic here.

But yeah, for the most part I agree with rda's statement.

[rda]

rda's forum title is absolutely fitting for him

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. (c) someone

Also, if you want to know, the recipe to getting this title is to keep replying to nonsense, and that's actually not a joke. You just got me +1, not that I am chasing post counts.

[rcshaggy]

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. (c) someone

Also, if you want to know, the recipe to getting this title is to keep replying to nonsense, and that's actually not a joke. You just got me +1, not that I am chasing post counts.

Don't feed the Troll...rda...Seriously...

[derpkitteh]

What is everyone else waiting for/excited for?

mostly seeing new models. gear, mounts, creatures.

i'm super curious about dark iron and zandalari racials as well.

[ello]

There is zero evidence of this and the devs themselves have said the exact opposite. That is why I pointed out the rotbrains. The Forsaken, as a political organization, do not say they are free to do what they want. You, the player, who has been alive for 15 minutes and knows nothing about the Forsaken, are the one who claims they can do whatever they want.

Lilian Voss is an enemy of the Forsaken. I don't know why you'd bother to bring her up as an example of being able to choose. Newly raised Forsaken have three choices. Serve the Forsaken. Die. Or run and hope the Forsaken don't kill you. When your two other options are death and near-death, you don't really have much of a choice, do you?

The Forsaken don't have to serve. The Val'kyr tell you themselves when you are first risen as the PC, literally the first quest in the Forsaken starting zone.

<name>!

Rise, <name>!

Welcome back to the realm of the living. With the blessing and power from the Dark Lady, I have freed you from death's grip.

You are no slave, <name>. You are free to follow whatever path you choose from here. If you choose to serve the Dark Lady Sylvanas, I recommend you speak with Undertaker Mordo. You will find him behind me, in the graveyard.

the pc has no choice because game mechanics, but there is no reason to believe this offer isn't extended to everyone else.

[derpkitteh]

[IMG]https://img00.deviantart.net/33fe/i/2017/185/b/1/nightborne___blood_elf_child_model__by_mystmantle-dbf2hl6.png[IMG]

they really should update all the kid models. those horrors walking around stormwind are awful.

and NEVER enter the orgrimmar orphanage. spare yourself from knowing what lies in there.

[rcshaggy]

they really should update all the kid models. those horrors walking around stormwind are awful.

and NEVER enter the orgrimmar orphanage. spare yourself from knowing what lies in there.

Well Orc and Human got really nice models...<3

Orc Kid;
http://www.wowhead.com/item=142380/d...delviewer:10+0

Human Kid;
http://www.wowhead.com/item=142379/d...delviewer:10+0

[CasualFilth]

Kill it with fire? O.O

[Mahmeya]

I don't know if preorders will be on 30th or not, but now that tokens are down to ~270k in EU (were at 290k before christmass and spiked to 400k when the sale began), I bought 7 since they dropped after new year. I am prepared...

[Ningjinq]

Why are tokens so cheap comparatively in NA? 160k or something right now?

[Black Rider]

Gallywix is probably the King of Diamonds.

Magni says hi

[killwithpwr]

Why are tokens so cheap comparatively in NA? 160k or something right now?

Supply and demand?

[Deleted]

mostly seeing new models. gear, mounts, creatures.

i'm super curious about dark iron and zandalari racials as well.

Mostly this.

Also. I wonder if its in any way possible to see how many allied races Blizz plans to give us troughout BfA. Like, look at how many slots there are for allied races or something.

The fact that we get 4 now/soonish actually makes me think we xould get more tgan expected.

[Hitei]

The Forsaken don't have to serve. The Val'kyr tell you themselves when you are first risen as the PC, literally the first quest in the Forsaken starting zone.

the pc has no choice because game mechanics, but there is no reason to believe this offer isn't extended to everyone else.

Why do some Alliance soldiers raised by the Forsaken immediately become loyal to the Forsaken while others do not? Are they being mind controlled? If so, by whom - Sylvanas or the Val'kyr? How does this relate to the fact that the Forsaken cultural identity is based on their free will and rebellion against the Lich King?

Free will is one of the cornerstones of Forsaken culture, with the great capacity for both good and evil that it entails. However, some undead, especially those who die in combat or under extreme stress and are raised soon after, enter into a violent, frenzied state. Undead in this state are easily manipulated and their rage is often directed at the foes of those who raised them. After the effects wear off, if the risen corpse has not been destroyed, they are given the same ultimatum that other Forsaken are offered: join the Dark Lady or return to the grave.

The only instances we have seen of Forsaken NOT serving the Dark Lady or choosing immediate death are:

The rotbrains, who fight and die before they can leave Deathknell.
Lillian Voss, who runs.
Dalen and his forces in Arathi, who pretend to be helping Sylvanas and then turn against her.

Why do you think there are no alternate groups of undead just living their lives off someplace else? Probably the same reason that with Sylvanas gone for a while, dissenting opinions started to find a voice in Undercity and pushed her out of power.