Battle for Azeroth Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Shadochi]

they really should update all the kid models. those horrors walking around stormwind are awful.

and NEVER enter the orgrimmar orphanage. spare yourself from knowing what lies in there.

Personally, I think the Suramar children are the true horrors... Outside lies doom!!!



@Fahrad Wagner tagging you since I know you like this song

[Valysar]

It's not an Alliance VS Horde thread. Thanks

[Shadochi]

It's not an Alliance VS Horde thread. Thanks

That being the starting theme of BfA, it kind of is....

[Makorus]

And the Horde quest tells you to kill any alliance you find - what's your point

Uh, it doesn't?

It literally tells you "Hey, there are spies, kill them please.". Spies are unlawful combatants anyway.

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It's not an Alliance VS Horde thread. Thanks

Can't really talk about much considering there's no info about BfA since Blizzcon.

[Valysar]

That being the starting theme of BfA, it kind of is....

Yes but no, this is not Alpha/Beta related. If you want to debate about this there's plenty thread that talk about it.

[Makorus]

Man, I actually really hope the Allied Races come out soon.

I got 5 WoD Exp Elixirs saved up (Rapid Mind?). They gonna go for so much.

[gcsmith]

The only instances we have seen of Forsaken NOT serving the Dark Lady or choosing immediate death are:

The rotbrains, who fight and die before they can leave Deathknell.
Lillian Voss, who runs.
Dalen and his forces in Arathi, who pretend to be helping Sylvanas and then turn against her.

Why do you think there are no alternate groups of undead just living their lives off someplace else? Probably the same reason that with Sylvanas gone for a while, dissenting opinions started to find a voice in Undercity and pushed her out of power.

I also think its because the forsaken labour under the false assumption that the living will "NEVER" accept them. This theory comes from the fact that most humans still call them monsters, but thats only because the first time they, as a collective group went to a human and said "Hey, we are totally not pretending to be out of the Lich Kings command, we are good now." and were trusted, they backstabbed him and all his soldiers not long later.

Because of this action, the living rightfully don't trust pretty much all forsaken.

Compare this to someone like Thassurian, sure he was sent on suicide missions, but at no point did he ever consider just murdering his former family members. Not until Legion anyway.

[Ilir]

Man, I actually really hope the Allied Races come out soon.

I got 5 WoD Exp Elixirs saved up (Rapid Mind?). They gonna go for so much.

Enjoy the free money.

[Makorus]

so, you're saying the Horde directly tells you to kill Alliance folk, whereas the Alliance one simply tells you to acquire ore by any means necessary (including, but not necessarily, by violence)

Spies are just intelligence officers, not necessarily assassins.

Yes, because there are several destroyed Shredders standing around as well, making it seem like the spies aren't just spies. Also, saying stuff like "I'll enjoy killing you" makes it seem like they aren't just spying. Note how they aren't called spies but "operatives".

Additionally, how can you excuse killing and looting civilians?

[Deleted]

Not quite. This is how it works:

When you raise someone from the dead who just died in combat, they are mindless, and they are enslaved to the will of whoever raised them, who can direct their aggression at whoever they want. Then, later, when the fight is over and they've started to calm down, they regain their free will and are given two choices. One, to join and serve the Forsaken, or two, to be killed again.

Forsaken have free-will the same way that actual slaves, or people in the North Korean army have free-will. Which is to say that they have it in theory if they don't mind dying for it.

Except for the many examples that completely contradicts what you just wrote. Examples like Lilian Voss, Godfrey and his cronies and the undead Kingdom of Stromgarde.

So much for "slave theory".

[Steampunkette]

Except for the many examples that completely contradicts what you just wrote. Examples like Lilian Voss, Godfrey and his cronies and the undead Kingdom of Stromgarde.

So much for "slave theory".

It's a frustrating thing, definitely.

The devs have this well supported "Forsaken are Free" decision that's shaped a lot of their interactions in-game and then it's slightly retconned and heavily undermined 'cause of a single mission in Andorhal.

Still. The Forsaken aren't slaves, mind-controlled or otherwise. They can go off into the world on their own, like Voss and others, and live their own lives. It's hard, sure, but even those who stay, who join the Forsaken, aren't slaves. They run their businesses, they sell their goods, and they live their lives just as any human in Stormwind. (With a little less walking around 'cause Undercity hasn't had as much focus in making it feel like a 'living city' as Stormwind and Orgrimmar have)

[Tartys]

Mostly this.

Also. I wonder if its in any way possible to see how many allied races Blizz plans to give us troughout BfA. Like, look at how many slots there are for allied races or something.

The fact that we get 4 now/soonish actually makes me think we xould get more tgan expected.

The Allied Races are 6: 4 now and 2 at the level cap in BfA. But I'm not confident that Blizzard will add more than this 2 during the new expansion.

Allied races move players away from the "main" content, that is could be good only in a situation when you have lack of contents, like now...

[Makorus]

The Allied Races are 6: 4 now and 2 at the level cap in BfA. But I'm not confident that Blizzard will add more than this 2 during the new expansion.

Allied races move players away from the "main" content, that is could be good only in a situation when you have lack of contents, like now...

I expect the first set of races at like 8.1 (Kul'tirans/Whatever horde counterpart?) and another set at like 8.?.5 (last patch basically), to lead in the next expansion somewhat.

[rda]

I expect the first set of races at like 8.1 (Kul'tirans/Whatever horde counterpart?) and another set at like 8.?.5 (last patch basically), to lead in the next expansion somewhat.

I don't know about the exact patches, but I also certainly expect new allied races added, and multiple times.

Because the allied races take little time for Blizzard to do, yet you have to level a new character to get full benefits = sub time -- and if you are really into a particular race, maybe you will relevel some of your alts = more sub time. The player is happy to be busy, for free to Blizzard.

It also makes sense to add them in portions -- a couple in patch X and another couple in patch Y rather than everything in patch X -- because if someone likes both X and Y, he / she will likely choose just one of these races in the latter scenario, while in the former scenario he will effectively choose both and level twice.

Finally, if it goes well, it will make sense to put some of the allied races to the store. (I am even OK with that, as long as there are no associated achievements.)

So, yeah. We are likely going to see things unfold here.

[Shadochi]

I don't know about the exact patches, but I also certainly expect new allied races added, and multiple times.

Because the allied races take little time for Blizzard to do, yet you have to level a new character to get full benefits = sub time -- and if you are really into a particular race, maybe you will relevel some of your alts = more sub time. The player is happy to be busy, for free to Blizzard.

It also makes sense to add them in portions -- a couple in patch X and another couple in patch Y rather than everything in patch X -- because if someone likes both X and Y, he / she will likely choose just one of these races in the latter scenario, while in the former scenario he will effectively choose both and level twice.

Finally, if it goes well, it will make sense to put some of the allied races to the store. (I am even OK with that, as long as there are no associated achievements.)

So, yeah. We are likely going to see things unfold here.

So what you're saying is that Blizzard implemented a system that allows them with relative ease* to introduce content that players care about.

I agree with pretty much everything you said, tho not sold yet at the Allied races in store idea, since they do also have an impact on gameplay quests, racials not just aesthetic like mounts. It would be like Blizzard was selling additional content in the cash shop which is something they haven't done yet. Closes gameplay impact on the shop are pets.

Nevertheless, more race diversity is always good. Even in a subrace format where you'll be able to still play a certain race but with different customization options on the same faction.

Personally, I'm expecting the Dark Iron and Zandalari in 8.1, and then more in 8.x.5 (x being the last major patch). Maybe some more in the mid tier .5 patch, tho not expecting it.

*some might take more, some less time to develop.

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Tho the store thing doesn't effect me that much since I have plenty of battle net balance (from wow gold)

[rda]

Seems like the scaling feedback isn't bad as it initially was.

On this.

There are two (sets of) changes:

1. The scaling zones. That is, you go to Ashenvale and since you are level 40 instead of level 20, the system scales mobs and quest XP / quest gear rewards as if you were in Felwood. This allows you to have much more freedom regarding which zones to go to and even which expansions to visit.

Nobody is against this change. It is good. (I said that it is good a number of times, too.) Nobody has any issues with difficulties. Because you are merely getting former Felwood-level difficulty at level 40 = known and tried and fine and understandable and, yes, as easy as before. Questing is even a bit faster because quests do not get gray. Nobody complains about any of this.

2. The increases in XP between 1-60 and, much more importantly, increases in mob HP between 1-100. That is, you go to whatever zone would be appropriate for your level before the change and mobs there aren't like they were before, they are 2-3x tougher. The purpose is to try and make leveling more "fun".

This is just a complete disaster, it hasn't been thought through at all and backfires everywhere. First off, the purpose of more "fun" is hardly fulfilled. The common argument of "at least I can use my full rotation on a mob now" goes straight out the window when you realize that your rotation at max level is different than your rotation during leveling. Yeah, if you have a spell with a long cast time you can now try to cast it during a fight. Except you are going to be using that spell wastly differently at max-level and so this pretense at "I have been killing mobs with it during leveling so I know how to use it" is just wishful thinking - no, you don't know how to use it, you have never used it in the context to which learning to use spells is at all relevant.

The entire concept of learning the spec for endgame during leveling in current WoW is just a no go. You plain cannot do this. WoW has no high-level endgame for soloers. It has only high-level endgame for small PVE groups (mythic), large PVE groups (raids) and PVP groups (which does not make sense to even talk about because nobody does PVP anymore statistically speaking, PVP is dead). Further, WoW devs balance the specs nearly only at max-level. What you do during leveling is not at all what you do at endgame. There is no learning to be had.

And what do we have for all that supposed "learning" that cannot occur? Right, we have mobs taking longer to kill. Plus edge cases from that which create their own problems (like, since you now have to spend 3x time to kill this mob, you are now running into enrage and he kills you instead). This is just a no-win scenario. This is what everyone is complaining about, pointless increases in help that make killing mobs take longer for absolutely no reason. It feels like a nerf to the player. It is utterly and uneqivocally bad. And while the overall time from the two sets of changes might not be a big increase or might be even a decrease at some levels, this happens because the first change saves you more time than the second change takes away. The second change never stops feeling bad and useless.

They already had to (a) remove it from old raids and (b) remove it from all of WoD and from upper levels of MoP. They might be forced to reduce it further.

To be absolutely honest, they should have just not done 2 at all.

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So what you're saying is that Blizzard implemented a system that allows them with relative ease* to introduce content that players care about.

Yes. Maybe I should have clarified - I am not criticizing them for doing the allied races. It is good that they are doing them. I am not all that much into races, but other people are and maybe I will too, eventually, level someone just for flavor. (I am criticizing them for doing only what's easy, but that's another story. The easy changes still provide gameplay, that's good.)

[Chickat]

If you are going to start at this level (beginner level for this argument), there are 16 pages to copy/paste from just one thread on the issue (The Alliance is the evil faction) and perhaps about as much from other threads.

I mean, really, if you want to discuss it, do so, but maybe read what has been said already.

Im not claiming that the horde is good or that the alliance isn't better in general, but I truly believe the Alliance started it both in Legion and now in BFA. Horde had no choice but to leave at the broken shore. Perhaps they should have given a bit more warning, but if it were real life and you had to retreat you would save your own people vs those of another country if you had to make the choice. And I am 100% certain had the alliance not started it this time the horde would have, but thats not how it played out. Both factions are shades of grey, sometimes lightest and closer to white, and sometimes a darker grey, but neither is black.

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The fact that it's so easy to get caught up on who endangered who first makes it painfully obvious that no matter who got to the ore first would have started harvesting it en mass, followed shortly by being attacked by the other who would immediately know the substance is valuable and quite possibly dangerous if unchecked.

Point being, the moment Azerite became a thing, a fight was going to happen.

Yeah, I agree. Alliance seems to just be attacking preemptively knowing the horde would attack if they didn't, but once in a while I think the horde would have refrained from attacking. Like Stormheim. IM not sure the horde would have attacked alliance right away like the alliance did.

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rda's forum title is absolutely fitting for him

I dont think hes crazy or insane. I think hes bitter. Maybe even rightfully so, but I think his bitterness jades him and even good content looks bad in his eyes.

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Don't feed the Troll...rda...Seriously...

Finally new children models. Looking forward to what a new baby tauren looks like.

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I don't know about the exact patches, but I also certainly expect new allied races added, and multiple times.

Because the allied races take little time for Blizzard to do, yet you have to level a new character to get full benefits = sub time -- and if you are really into a particular race, maybe you will relevel some of your alts = more sub time. The player is happy to be busy, for free to Blizzard.

It also makes sense to add them in portions -- a couple in patch X and another couple in patch Y rather than everything in patch X -- because if someone likes both X and Y, he / she will likely choose just one of these races in the latter scenario, while in the former scenario he will effectively choose both and level twice.

Finally, if it goes well, it will make sense to put some of the allied races to the store. (I am even OK with that, as long as there are no associated achievements.)

So, yeah. We are likely going to see things unfold here.

I think they will had anywhere from 2-4 new ones in BFA patches. Does a patch have to include one for both factions though, or can they add 1 alliance in 8.1, 1 horde in 8.2, and 1 horde and 1 alliance in 8.3 or something like that?

[Marlamin]

Finally new children models. Looking forward to what a new baby tauren looks like.

Keep in mind those are fan-made. Human child models are also in a severe need of updates. These fan-made ones (by a friend of mine!) are pretty awesome too.

[RippedLife]

haven't checked this thread in forever cause boring as fuck with no new info. Anyone let me know what the general thoughts are on beta date as of now?

[rcshaggy]

Im not claiming that the horde is good or that the alliance isn't better in general, but I truly believe the Alliance started it both in Legion and now in BFA. Horde had no choice but to leave at the broken shore. Perhaps they should have given a bit more warning, but if it were real life and you had to retreat you would save your own people vs those of another country if you had to make the choice. And I am 100% certain had the alliance not started it this time the horde would have, but thats not how it played out. Both factions are shades of grey, sometimes lightest and closer to white, and sometimes a darker grey, but neither is black.

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Yeah, I agree. Alliance seems to just be attacking preemptively knowing the horde would attack if they didn't, but once in a while I think the horde would have refrained from attacking. Like Stormheim. IM not sure the horde would have attacked alliance right away like the alliance did.

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I dont think hes crazy or insane. I think hes bitter. Maybe even rightfully so, but I think his bitterness jades him and even good content looks bad in his eyes.

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Finally new children models. Looking forward to what a new baby tauren looks like.

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I think they will had anywhere from 2-4 new ones in BFA patches. Does a patch have to include one for both factions though, or can they add 1 alliance in 8.1, 1 horde in 8.2, and 1 horde and 1 alliance in 8.3 or something like that?

Well someone fan-made them...
The Blood Elf kids haven't been updated yet.