Needed: New model for heirlooms

[Grokresh]

It's a weird point to have; all the heirlooms are modified versions of famous items from Vanilla.

That part does make sense! Adventurers of old handing down the oldest of gear to the newbs Heirlooms from the past!

[Noxina]

Problem is that with heirlooms you level faster than you obtain gear (well at least before, haven't tried leveling after the new system came), leaving you with items far below your level, making you weak thus slowing you down.
With scaling heirlooms, this problem is solved, and people can level as fast as they can without having to spend gold on AH for upgrades when needed.

[Grokresh]

Problem is that with heirlooms you level faster than you obtain gear (well at least before, haven't tried leveling after the new system came), leaving you with items far below your level, making you weak thus slowing you down.
With scaling heirlooms, this problem is solved, and people can level as fast as they can without having to spend gold on AH for upgrades when needed.

Yeah I hate finding myself outgearing all my other gear with heirlooms and having low level gear in higher level dungeons the main arguement for more heirlooms really

[Anjerith]

Thanks to the new scaling, heirlooms don't really have any advantage over gear you get from quests --- outside of the xp bonus --- so it is a give/take; you can have more power for slightly slower leveling. Or you can level faster but be a bit weaker.

The system supports itself. Rather than turn them into ...enchants? That you can put on gear, is I guess the idea from the OP. Just swap the gear out as needed (solo stuff do it with regular gear, dungeons put on the heirlooms)

[ManiaCCC]

coding spells you use twice 1-60 is a waste of code. I can count on my hands the number of times I had to use spells like searing pain, scorpid sting, sentry totem. The spells they gutted were, for the most part, entirely useless... niche at best.

Mastering the class? lol. LFR ToS is harder than everything in vanilla save original 4 horsemen, which was only hard due to the sheer number of players involved. Outside of the hunter bow quest, nothing in vanilla required "mastery"

That could be said all the way to MoP with the warlock green fire challenge being the first thing that actually required you to "master" your class.

Oh and ftr, you still have the majority of your "utility" spells. Most of the useful/utilitarian spells still exist.

These spells existed already btw and while I have no experience with Hunter in Vanilla (played him in TBC), I can tell you I used sentry totems successfully almost in every BG and here and there in the world. Also taunting totem was one of my key tools in many situations. Anti poison totem was on key, which broke because I tapped him so hard some times . Resistance totems were situational but strong. Rockbiter and Earth shock was one of my go to tools, when healers were in danger..there was so much to do.

And fact, that you are looking on mastering class from raiding perspective says a lot. Currently, mastering your class is about perfect rotation, right timing and understanding of raid mechanics. In the past, it was about "saving the day" for lack of better words. It was different skill set but I miss it so much.

I believe both things could easily exists in a same space. These more complex rotation and harder mechanics for bosses and still have enough tools to make a big difference in both PvE and PvP.

Thanks to the new scaling, heirlooms don't really have any advantage over gear you get from quests --- outside of the xp bonus --- so it is a give/take; you can have more power for slightly slower leveling. Or you can level faster but be a bit weaker.

The system supports itself. Rather than turn them into ...enchants? That you can put on gear, is I guess the idea from the OP. Just swap the gear out as needed (solo stuff do it with regular gear, dungeons put on the heirlooms)

One of the biggest "upsides" of heirlooms were lasting enchants. While their power level could be a bit lower for brief period of time during leveling, they are still stronger thanks to "enchant and forget" feature.

[arrez]

These spells existed already btw and while I have no experience with Hunter in Vanilla (played him in TBC), I can tell you I used sentry totems successfully almost in every BG and here and there in the world. Also taunting totem was one of my key tools in many situations. Anti poison totem was on key, which broke because I tapped him so hard some times . Resistance totems were situational but strong. Rockbiter and Earth shock was one of my go to tools, when healers were in danger..there was so much to do.

And fact, that you are looking on mastering class from raiding perspective says a lot. Currently, mastering your class is about perfect rotation, right timing and understanding of raid mechanics. In the past, it was about "saving the day" for lack of better words. It was different skill set but I miss it so much.

I believe both things could easily exists in a same space. These more complex rotation and harder mechanics for bosses and still have enough tools to make a big difference in both PvE and PvP.



One of the biggest "upsides" of heirlooms were lasting enchants. While their power level could be a bit lower for brief period of time during leveling, they are still stronger thanks to "enchant and forget" feature.

Rockbiter was a weapon enchant. You don't know what you're talking about.
Earth shock was an interrupt, you have a way better interrupt now.
Resistance totems (hell, all totems) died with 1 hit. Pets had macros to instantly destroy all totems.

But yeah, you clearly don't know what you're talking about and thanks for confirming what I suspected.

[TOM_RUS]

The scaling is a welcome change for me as it feels more like a game. One problem though is that WoW is all about gear as part of it's progression system. I think they should make the heirlooms only have the XP bonus and not be pieces of gear, but something else. They could potentially make it a permanent "enchant" to a gear slot similar to how glyphs work. You could then change items in and out and they would get the boost.

I think it's a missing piece of feeling like you are getting more powerful when you get a new piece of gear. Right now getting gear only matters for the appearance unlock.

Thoughts?

No. They should heavily buff both power and XP bonus (something like 100% power and 200% XP) to make heirlooms good again. Players spent tons of gold on them just to have then nerfed to the ground? WTF Blizzard?

[ManiaCCC]

Rockbiter was a weapon enchant. You don't know what you're talking about.
Earth shock was an interrupt, you have a way better interrupt now.
Resistance totems (hell, all totems) died with 1 hit. Pets had macros to instantly destroy all totems.

But yeah, you clearly don't know what you're talking about and thanks for confirming what I suspected.

Well, rockbiter was enchant, which generated threat, so was earth shock. Maybe you don't remember, but I do. It was insanely good combo in right situations. Especially, when shamans were able to kit monster for days.

Resistance totems had quite a range, and you could hide them quite easily in BGs at least for a while. But I used them mostly in PvE situations.

I am sorry you never mastered your class.

[Marrilaife]

but i also would be happy when i could get some drop, shift click, better, yeah. more fun. and nearly no loose on time. i see no reason why ppl do not want that. and why EVERY speed leveler „dont care“. complete nonsense.

Because this 1 moment of "happiness" and "excitement" is overshadowed by 10 moments of "my weapon / chest / pants are 20 levels behind, fml, there's nothing in the AH for an affordable price, quick search wowhead where can I get an item for this slot, oh great, I either have to do half of x zone with my old crap before I get an upgrade or go to a dungeon and pray that 10% dropchance item actually drops". No thanks. I'd take heirlooms anyday.

When I was new to the game I really wanted to get that leather 2-set from Zul'Farrak on my druid and the chest never dropped in 12 runs. Then I outlevelled the dungeon. Now we have scaling, but still after 12 runs that dungeon gets old and boring.

Why would I wish to struggle to find upgrades during levelling? That's what endgame is already about. Levelling is to see a new class, how it gains abilities and how they play together, see storylines, explore world, and not have to cherry pick quests and zones again based on what is rewarded where. I was pigeon holed into specific zones / questlines just because they rewarded better gear than alternatives (for example when Dustwallow Marsh revamp landed somewhere in wotlk it plain out gave better items than other zones in that lvl range).

Yes, there are players who enjoy chasing BIS gear at some low level. Those players usually create twinks. Back in the day indeed if you went to Warsong Gulch or Arathi Basin at low level you'd see players in gear 3 times better than you. But for them it was an art in itself, they didn't care to level, they just cared to min max a character in specific bracket. Unfortunate side effect was whichever faction had more twinks in that bg would usually win because the rest couldn't contribute much. But that's another story.

[valax]

The scaling is a welcome change for me as it feels more like a game. One problem though is that WoW is all about gear as part of it's progression system. I think they should make the heirlooms only have the XP bonus and not be pieces of gear, but something else. They could potentially make it a permanent "enchant" to a gear slot similar to how glyphs work. You could then change items in and out and they would get the boost.

I think it's a missing piece of feeling like you are getting more powerful when you get a new piece of gear. Right now getting gear only matters for the appearance unlock.

Thoughts?

OH HELL NO , not after i spent so much money on those crappy pieces of gear , I'm gonna wear them until cap and they better be worth it

[WolfRider]

Heirloom models are fine, they fit Vanilla top items' designs.
If you don't like them just transmog them.
Heirloom's item lvl is 5pts ahead of blue items you can loot (at least for lvl1-60)

Blizz could had Heirlooms for Bracers / Gloves / Belt / Boots but it's not necessary.

[arrez]

Well, rockbiter was enchant, which generated threat, so was earth shock. Maybe you don't remember, but I do. It was insanely good combo in right situations. Especially, when shamans were able to kit monster for days.

Resistance totems had quite a range, and you could hide them quite easily in BGs at least for a while. But I used them mostly in PvE situations.

I am sorry you never mastered your class.

You were gonna kite a melee mob, with a melee threat enchant? Lemme guess, you were one of those "shaman tanks" too, right?

[ManiaCCC]

You were gonna kite a melee mob, with a melee threat enchant? Lemme guess, you were one of those "shaman tanks" too, right?

To be fair, I was tasked to grab aggro from healer in raids, if things will go sideways. And tanked dungeon twice, when our warrior was just incompetent.

And maybe you don't remember, but earth shock was ranged. You know. Attack mob in melee when he is focusing someone else and than kit him with earth shock and slows. I know, this may be next level play for you, so please, stick with some easy classes. It may overwhelm you.

[Ealyssa]

What is wrong about discussing some other options?

Other options ? Nothing
But asking one nobody force you to use to be removed ? That's pretty much 10/10 retardation.

Stop watching what other people do and start enjoying the game how you like it.

[arrez]

To be fair, I was tasked to grab aggro from healer in raids, if things will go sideways. And tanked dungeon twice, when our warrior was just incompetent.

And maybe you don't remember, but earth shock was ranged. You know. Attack mob in melee when he is focusing someone else and than kit him with earth shock and slows. I know, this may be next level play for you, so please, stick with some easy classes. It may overwhelm you.

Frost shock slowed, not earth shock.
Earth shock didn't have a threat modifier, frost shock did. If you said you took aggro with frost shock/kited, I would've believed that you had a tiny idea of what you were talking about.

BUT GUESS WHAT! You can kite with frost shock and be able to interrupt now! you know, since earth shock is no longer the interrupt, and shocks don't share cooldowns.

Just stop, you're embarrassing yourself.

[Kul Tiras]

This suggestion is as big a waste of dev time as fucking pre-BC servers. Can we please move forward, not backwards?

[ManiaCCC]

Frost shock slowed, not earth shock.
Earth shock didn't have a threat modifier, frost shock did. If you said you took aggro with frost shock/kited, I would've believed that you had a tiny idea of what you were talking about.

BUT GUESS WHAT! You can kite with frost shock and be able to interrupt now! you know, since earth shock is no longer the interrupt, and shocks don't share cooldowns.

Just stop, you're embarrassing yourself.

Buddy you are retarded. Seriously.

http://db.vanillagaming.org/?spells=7.7

Just study for yourself and return, where your IQ will at least double.

Also, when I tell you I also tanked few dungeons in Vanilla and TBC as Rogue, will you lost your mind?

- - - Updated - - -

Other options ? Nothing
But asking one nobody force you to use to be removed ? That's pretty much 10/10 retardation.

Stop watching what other people do and start enjoying the game how you like it.

Noone is removing anything. Stop taking things personally. He believe what he proposed is better solution, so do I, but noone is making any decision here. Disagree if you want, that's fine.

[arrez]

Buddy you are retarded. Seriously.

http://db.vanillagaming.org/?spells=7.7

Just study for yourself and return, where your IQ will at least double.

Also, when I tell you I also tanked few dungeons in Vanilla and TBC as Rogue, will you lost your mind?

- - - Updated - - -



Noone is removing anything. Stop taking things personally. He believe what he proposed is better solution, so do I, but noone is making any decision here. Disagree if you want, that's fine.

You do know that frost shock and earth shock changed which one had the threat component in vanilla, ya?
Was your "vanilla experience" on nostalrius or some other pirate server?

[ManiaCCC]

You do know that frost shock and earth shock changed which one had the threat component in vanilla, ya?
Was your "vanilla experience" on nostalrius or some other pirate server?

ES threat generation was added in patch 1.1.0 (http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Patch_1.1.0), Frost shock never had it as far as I know. I am also from EU. I played Vanilla since it was released in EU , few months later after US release (which were after 1.1.0 release).

You were just wrong, just accept it. Don't attack me and we can talk as grown men. I have no problem to make my point in friendly way. To be fair, I prefer it.

[Ielenia]

Thoughts?

Transmogrification exists.

/thread