Punisher vs Batman

[Hammerfest]

I’d guess his claws are harder then normal bone as he’s seen cutting stuff with them all the time and I don’t think he’s ever had them coated like x23 or Logan.

Don't ya love that when they tell us something and then show us something (based on what they told us) that couldn't possibly be? It reminds of the statement that Batman has no powers, but then they depict him dodging bullets and effortlessly jumping off of buildings and recovering from injuries that would have ended a normal man's vigilante/crimefighting career.

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He's an ex-cop whose family was murdered by the mob...

Punisher is an ex-cop now?

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Don't ya love that when they tell us something and then show us something (based on what they told us) that couldn't possibly be? It reminds of the statement that Batman has no powers, but then they depict him dodging bullets and effortlessly jumping off of buildings and recovering from injuries that would have ended a normal man's vigilante/crimefighting career.

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Punisher is an ex-cop now?

The only thing I can think is worse is when they tell and show us something then change it with no mention like they did with the new juggernaut.

[Hammerfest]

The only thing I can think is worse is when they tell and show us something then change it with no mention like they did with the new juggernaut.

Aw, what'd those beta males and milkshake girls at Marvel do to ol' Juggy?

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Aw, what'd those beta males and milkshake girls at Marvel do to ol' Juggy?

There was a rather well done story where big red the juggernaut demon wanted a new juggernaut so he put out a call to abunch of people who had the power before or who were good at smashing crap. This included Colossus and cane the orginal juggernaut geting them both Invloved as they both didn’t want some villain to get the power. Long story short they make a deal with big red that if he gives them more power then evil they’ll kill him as he wants to die because he can’t deal with his feelings. Cane gets the power instead of Colossus and wants to kill cyclopse before he goes though with the deal to kill big red. It’s then shown and told that all the old weakness's he had as the old juggernaut were gone making him litteraly unstoppable. He then gets dropped into the ocean which alone is bloody stupid but then he doesn’t show up until a X-Men blue comic where all of his new power seems to just be gone with no explanation.

[Hammerfest]

There was a rather well done story where...

I remember when Marvel editors actually did their jobs and enforced continuity. It made the Marvel Universe feel like an actual place you were reading about rather than "creator of the month's fan fic."

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I remember when Marvel editors actually did their jobs and enforced continuity. It made the Marvel Universe feel like an actual place you were reading about rather than "creator of the month's fan fic."

I wouldn’t say they don’t keep a continuity but it Varys way to much from character to character. Something like the all new wolverine has been doing an amazing job bringing back plot lines from all the way back when x23 first became a thing but then there are story’s like this that don’t even seem to try.

[Ivanstone]

Punisher is an ex-cop now?

Some versions of the Punisher have updated origins since the first version is tied to the Vietnam War.

Ultimate Punisher, 2099 Punisher and all 3 movie versions are ex-cops. Netflix Punisher is an Afghan vet.

[ro9ue]

Who would win in a fight? Punisher or Batman?

Considering Punisher isn't afraid to use guns and kill people... I feel like he'd be willing to do what it takes to win. Batman generally in his many incarnations lives by a code of honor. That would only be a weakness vs The Punisher.

Reminds me of this moment in GoT:

[Ivanstone]

Batman generally in his many incarnations lives by a code of honor. That would only be a weakness vs The Punisher.

Punisher clearly has no code of honour. Nope. None.

[Hammerfest]

Some versions of the Punisher have updated origins since the first version is tied to the Vietnam War.

Right but the Marvel Comics Punisher, the one we're talking about in this thread, isn't an ex-cop.

[Jetstream]

That's Wolverine. He's got adamantium claws ("plot claws") that can cut through stuff like Punisher's kevlar outfit. Not exactly the best example one could have picked.

Let's be real here: Anyone with a knife can cut through a kevlar outfit.

Kevlar ain't universal body armor.

There's no such thing as body armor that can handle everything.

[Hammerfest]

There's no such thing as body armor that can handle everything.

Yeah, there's no such thing as adamantium claws either. Pointing out in a thread like this that things aren't real would be like handing out speeding tickets at the Indy 500. Thanks for your input.

[Jetstream]

Yeah, there's no such thing as adamantium claws either. Pointing out in a thread like this that things aren't real would be like handing out speeding tickets at the Indy 500. Thanks for your input.

Super. Except he specifically said Kevlar. Not fancy bullshit comic armor. Kevlar. The statement was valid in this context. Put the condescension back in your pocket and wait for a better time. You went off too early. It happens.

[Hammerfest]

Super. Except he specifically said Kevlar. Not fancy bullshit comic armor. Kevlar.

And comic book Kevlar clearly, just from visual analysis (i.e. "how it's drawn"), has different properties than real-world kevlar. Real world Kevlar isn't skin-tight like the Punisher's outfit, for example. Keep handing out those speeding tickets.

[Skorpionss]

Punisher. He’s more trained than Batman and has a kill or be killed mentality. Batman isn’t like that. He holds back and hesitates because he doesn’t want to kill his assailant. Punisher is going in there with everything he has (max strength). He’s not thinking “don’t hit there, don’t use this weapon, not so hard”.

I'm sorry but what? I don't think there is a being in the DC or Marvel universe that is more trained than fucking Batman, the guy can fucking do anything that is humanly possible and a few things that aren't... He was trained by the league of shadows and dedicated his whole life to training in order to stop bad guys...

Besides that, even if it were true, Batman has the one thing Punisher doesn't, unlimited resources... it'd be hard for Punisher to fucking get near Batman, he'd just hop in his batwing and blast him from the air, if he were the version of Batman that doesn't mind killing...

I mean I don't think Batman is infallible but against any regular human he would win 100% of the time, simple because of who he is and what he can do... Maybe Tony Stark would be a threat because those Iron suits can be OP, but even then I think it'd be a tie at most...

[Deleted]

Punisher is awesome, especially in the Max Comics.

But yeah, he couldn't beat Batman on his best day.

[Endus]

Read Endus’s comment on this, which I agree with:

While I still back that, on looking back at it, I think a simple summation to me would be that Batman is, fundamentally, Emo Iron Man. They both have tons of money. They're both brilliant. They both plan and gear up for any future incident they can think of. The biggest difference is that DC gives Batman way more plot armor than Marvel gives Stark, and I don't think that's a reasonable counter. It also helps that Batman's Rogue's Gallery is basically all crazy people, and crazy people with weird tics are A> really predictable if you understand them, and B> not going to be able to outsmart their own craziness.

You can't take them as they're portrayed in-house, either, really. The big issue is that DC treats its heroes like men who've become Gods; they're archetypal and (largely) perfect avatars. They're almost all like this; Superman doesn't get frustrated and punch a hole in the wall and then drink a keg of beer on bad days. DC tends to avoid the flaws of its heroes, and focus on the villains somewhat. Marvel goes the other way; you can have entire runs which are all about the hero, no villains even needed. The best example right off the top of my head is Matt Fraction's 2012 Hawkeye run. It's basically "Hawkeye between missions". He's fixing up his apartment, dealing with neighbours, trying to find meaning in his life, etc. The "bad guys" are just local gangster mooks. The flaws and humanity of those heroes is front and center, and it basically REQUIRES them to be flawed.

So of course Batman would win, in a DC setting where Batman is perfect and Frank is one of his crazy villains. In a less-favorable setting, though? If Frank ever figures out Batman is Bruce Wayne, then if there's ever a moment where Wayne appears at a public event he's known to attend and isn't behind bulletproof glass, Frank wins, if he's decided Batman needs to go. And hell; Batman can't just proactively beat Frank into a coma; that's not how Batman works.

Yes, Batman holds his own against the likes of Superman. Frank also holds his own in a world equally filled with folks with godlike powers. And can do so without custom-built super-expensive toys.

[Ivanstone]

Yes, Batman holds his own against the likes of Superman. Frank also holds his own in a world equally filled with folks with godlike powers. And can do so without custom-built super-expensive toys.

Batman regularly punches above his weight. Punisher regularly does not.

Batman is much more absurd than the Punisher. He's still a frighteningly well trained physical combatant with genius level intellect backed by immense resources. The Punisher is only one of those 3 things and he's arguably less good at that one thing.

The Punisher's capacity for ruthlessness (ie he kills people) is only a big advantage if you're unconcerned with collateral damage.

The more valid comparison is not Batman vs Punisher, its Batman vs Nick Fury. Now that's actually an interesting question.

PS Fuck all of you for making defend Batman, a character I despise. Especially all of you NRA jackoffs who think a man who's good with a gun is automatically the best.

[Endus]

Batman regularly punches above his weight. Punisher regularly does not.

Come off it. Look at Batman's Rogue's gallery. You've got plenty of classic under-weights in there;
Joker
Riddler
Harley Quinn
Two-face
The Penguin
Catwoman
The Black Mask
The Mad Hatter
Ventriloquist/Scarface
The Red Hood
Mister Zsasz
Deadshot

All of the above have no powers at all, beyond relatively minor tech. And I'm excluding the big tech-related guys like Dr. Freeze and Scarecrow.

And Punisher punches "up" on the regular, too.

[Jonnusthegreat]

If Castle knows Batman is Bruce Wayne? Bruce would be dead at his next public outing.

In a fully prepared arena style match? Castle wouldn't stand a chance against Batman's gadgets.