US Federal Government Shutdown

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Trump won't get blamed by his hardcore supporters. Which is a minority. Polling indicates that the GOP will be blamed for this shutdown, and since Trump is the head of the GOP, he will get blamed.

Also, Trump himself blames Trump for the shutdown. By his own words.

Exactly right. He admits to it time and time again. But is just trying to score political points by pointing fingers. #Trumpshutdown

[Hammerfest]

Trump won't get blamed by his hardcore supporters.

Trump will bypass the mainstream media, probably via Twitter, and set the record straight for all who bother to look, on who caused the Schumer Shutdown. It's what he does, in case you haven't noticed.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Trump will bypass the mainstream media, probably via Twitter, and set the record straight for all who bother to look, on who caused the Schumer Shutdown. It's what he does, in case you haven't noticed.

Trump says it does not make it truth. That is pretty proven. In fact, if he says it I feel it is proof enough of admitting this is the #Trumpshutdown.

[Hammerfest]

You clearly do not know what you are talking about, as I have shown through numerous links.

Your links are garbage, as I mentioned previously. Look at the footage of the press conference I posted.

[Templar 331]

Nothing gets proven on message boards. Look at what was said in the press conference video I posted above.

Mind giving a time stamp? I don't feel like sitting through 9 minutes of two weasels dancing around the facts.

[GennGreymane]

Mind giving a time stamp? I don't feel like sitting through 9 minutes of two weasels dancing around the facts.

You ask too much of them.

[Lenonis]

Trump will bypass the mainstream media, probably via Twitter, and set the record straight for all who bother to look, on who caused the Schumer Shutdown. It's what he does, in case you haven't noticed.

That, in no way shape or form, refutes what I stated.

[wunksta]

You have no clue what you're talking about because you rely on leftist propaganda and sources compromised by politics. The military always gets paid during these so-called "shutdowns."

https://www.military.com/daily-news/...-benefits.html

This is leftist propaganda?

[Regalia]

You mean around the 7:22 mark. where he’s says “The Military will continue to go to work. They will not get paid”. Yeah, I watched that, lol.

He's probably one of those People that calls Unedited interviews from CNN fake news.

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Trump will bypass the mainstream media, probably via Twitter, and set the record straight for all who bother to look, on who caused the Schumer Shutdown. It's what he does, in case you haven't noticed.

Set the record straight, Oh you mean Trump Lying Gotcha.

[LaserSharkDFB]

I like how Hammerfest completely ignored my previous post, the one where I pointed this paragraph out:

Sure, a couple different things. And again, OMB is responsible for, sort of, managing the lapse, managing the shutdown. The military will still go to work. They will not get paid. The border will still be patrolled. They will not get paid. Folks will still be fighting the fires out West. They will not get paid. The parks will be open. People won’t get paid. You can see the whole list.

It's worth requoting this on every single page until he stops fucking lying.

[Dontrike]

I like how Hammerfest completely ignored my previous post, the one where I pointed this paragraph out:



It's worth requoting this on every single page until he stops fucking lying.

Hammerfest doesn't listen to reason, this is a woman who actually believes the earth is flat, so you won't get anywhere with her.

[Regalia]

Hammerfest doesn't listen to reason, this is a woman who actually believes the earth is flat, so you won't get anywhere with her.

flat earthers...... lol

[Garnier Fructis]

It's worth requoting this on every single page until he stops fucking lying.

'he (Hammerfest)' and 'stops fucking lying' is an oxymoron.

[Skroe]

Skroe is definitely a bit of an anomaly around these parts. There are definitely things he's quite knowledgeable about and he does a pretty decent job masquerading as a mature adult most of the time, but then every once in a while his inner edgelord comes out and he'll spew the same kind of doctrinaire right-wing garbage you'd hear from any crazy conservative commentator.

Shitty and overpriced healthcare is definitely not some kind of core American value. Americans don't vote for it because we've never really had the choice to vote for it, since the corporate interests that back both parties are decidedly against it and the closest we've come is some cobbled together half-measure that started off as a Republican handout to the insurance sector and ended up as a referendum on whether black people should be allowed to be president.

This is uncharitable, and entirely not my point also. My point is that Americans fundamentally are getting what they want, and if they want something different, then they would send different people to do that.

I've written extensively here about what I think we should do with Healthcare in this country. It is pretty much "Emulate Japan" in many respect.

I also do not define "shitty overpriced healthcare" as an American value. I'm saying there is no American consensus that
(1) Healthcare is the most important thing, above other things
(2) We should have an American NHS

In about half the country, if they were their own country, we'd have an American NHS in about a week. In another half, running against "socialized Medicine" is a campaign winner. There is not a national consensus, even if there are regional or state ones (one way or another).

I liken this to gun control. Pretend you and me had a time machine and went back to 2002 and held a debate. "What would get Americans to finally take action on gun control". I would come up with some kind of extreme scenario about what it would take to get Americans out of their stupor on the subject: "You know, maybe if some maniac with a high powered rifle mowed down a bunch of kindergartners or something".

And then that happened at Sandy Hook And Americans were outraged for about two weeks and forgot about it. Even that extreme scenario didn't bring about change.

My feeling on Gun Control is America is that while half the country would want substantial reform, the other half has pretty much settled on the idea that, so long as it doesn't personally effect them, a double-digit body count massacre every few years is the opportunity cost of the 2nd Amendment. Sad, but "the price to be paid". Because seriously, if Sandy Hook won't bring about change... what will? Or hell, Las Vegas this year. Nothing, yet again. And even many gun owners were against that stock thing that enabled automatic fire.

Basically I'm not infantilizing the American people by saying that these calamities - bad healthcare and poor gun control - is something that HAPPENS to them, like it's an act of god or something. They are the end result of decisions, starting in the polling booth, that Americans make. If those issues became important enough to Americans, if they rose up high enough the priority queue in a sustainable fashion, then we would see rapid change on them. That has happened on other issues before. In the UK for example, touching the NHS is a political death wish. It is that high on British voter's priority list.

Democracy is not a spectator sport. The buck ultimately stops with the American people. Do socialized medicine, or don't. If the majority wins the argument and respects minority dissent, then that is fair. But the fact we don't have it in America right now speaks to Americans not having a national consensus on the subject, as much as many people talk a lot... a real lot... about the problems of healthcare here.

If there were a national consensus on what to do, and Americans actually sent politicians en masse to act on it to Washington, and not just liberal Senators and Representatives from blue states, then I'd be singing a different tune. Maybe we'll get there. But we aren't there yet. And meanwhile in ABSENCE Of that, other things that may not be as important in such a world have risen up the priority queue.

[Lenonis]

Hammerfest doesn't listen to reason, this is a woman who actually believes the earth is flat, so you won't get anywhere with her.

Hammerfest is a woman? Huh. You learn something new every day! (Unless you're a flat earther I suppose)

[wunksta]

If they 'always' get paid why did they have to pass a bill to cover pay in 2014?
https://www.congress.gov/bill/113th-...ouse-bill/3210
https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-...3hr3210enr.pdf

[Felya]

Trump will bypass the mainstream media, probably via Twitter, and set the record straight for all who bother to look, on who caused the Schumer Shutdown. It's what he does, in case you haven't noticed.

Trump posting on Twitter, is just shit that Trump chooses to say. The above is just saying you only trust Trump...

I am guessing you missed Trump’s twitter said a shut down is the president’s fault or when he said a shut down was needed?

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Your links are garbage, as I mentioned previously. Look at the footage of the press conference I posted.

Check the time stamp on this reply. Winter did watch your linked footage:

Oh, and from your video link - “The Military will continue to go to work. They will not get paid.”

If this is not the GOP fault, why are you lying in defending them? Liars and crooks...

[GennGreymane]

If they 'always' get paid why did they have to pass a bill to cover pay in 2014?
https://www.congress.gov/bill/113th-...ouse-bill/3210
https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-...3hr3210enr.pdf

you're asking too much of particular posters who exist to troll and nothing more. Or hide behind "trolling" if their opinions are challenged.

[NineSpine]

I don't see anything there that addresses the costs of defensive medicine and compliance at all, it addresses only the direct costs of suits.

I said I was talking about litigiousness. Either you dont know what that word means or you are being intentionally dishonest.

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This is uncharitable, and entirely not my point also. My point is that Americans fundamentally are getting what they want, and if they want something different, then they would send different people to do that.

I've written extensively here about what I think we should do with Healthcare in this country. It is pretty much "Emulate Japan" in many respect.

I also do not define "shitty overpriced healthcare" as an American value. I'm saying there is no American consensus that
(1) Healthcare is the most important thing, above other things
(2) We should have an American NHS

In about half the country, if they were their own country, we'd have an American NHS in about a week. In another half, running against "socialized Medicine" is a campaign winner. There is not a national consensus, even if there are regional or state ones (one way or another).

I liken this to gun control. Pretend you and me had a time machine and went back to 2002 and held a debate. "What would get Americans to finally take action on gun control". I would come up with some kind of extreme scenario about what it would take to get Americans out of their stupor on the subject: "You know, maybe if some maniac with a high powered rifle mowed down a bunch of kindergartners or something".

And then that happened at Sandy Hook And Americans were outraged for about two weeks and forgot about it. Even that extreme scenario didn't bring about change.

My feeling on Gun Control is America is that while half the country would want substantial reform, the other half has pretty much settled on the idea that, so long as it doesn't personally effect them, a double-digit body count massacre every few years is the opportunity cost of the 2nd Amendment. Sad, but "the price to be paid". Because seriously, if Sandy Hook won't bring about change... what will? Or hell, Las Vegas this year. Nothing, yet again. And even many gun owners were against that stock thing that enabled automatic fire.

Basically I'm not infantilizing the American people by saying that these calamities - bad healthcare and poor gun control - is something that HAPPENS to them, like it's an act of god or something. They are the end result of decisions, starting in the polling booth, that Americans make. If those issues became important enough to Americans, if they rose up high enough the priority queue in a sustainable fashion, then we would see rapid change on them. That has happened on other issues before. In the UK for example, touching the NHS is a political death wish. It is that high on British voter's priority list.

Democracy is not a spectator sport. The buck ultimately stops with the American people. Do socialized medicine, or don't. If the majority wins the argument and respects minority dissent, then that is fair. But the fact we don't have it in America right now speaks to Americans not having a national consensus on the subject, as much as many people talk a lot... a real lot... about the problems of healthcare here.

If there were a national consensus on what to do, and Americans actually sent politicians en masse to act on it to Washington, and not just liberal Senators and Representatives from blue states, then I'd be singing a different tune. Maybe we'll get there. But we aren't there yet. And meanwhile in ABSENCE Of that, other things that may not be as important in such a world have risen up the priority queue.

Any plans to address the fact that the UK spends less on Healthcare than the US government does?

[Grokresh]

I said I was talking about litigiousness. Either you dont know what that word means or you are being intentionally dishonest.

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Any plans to address the fact that the UK spends less on Healthcare than the US government does?

Nope he's ignoring that for some reason while citing cost as a reason America doesn't want an NHS as they need that money for other things.