Alliance Faction is Good. Not Evil. there's a difference.

[Polybius]

I'm pretty sure the Horde found the artifact first and then the usual 'we have to have it so the other side doesn't use it against us' logic kicked in.

As for the OP, I think we can see seeds of how Blizzard will present the Alliance in future in Thalyssra's dialogue when she joins the Horde. Remember, we are not dealing with Tolstoy levels of plot sophistication here, but Christie Golden is likely the best writer Blizzard has ever employed on WoW. Everything we read or see now might be genuine hints or seeds regarding what is to come.

The Alliance fights to maintain a status quo that is pretty sweet for the members of the Alliance. As a result they are a reactive force crippled by narrow thinking and a lack of innovation. They pretty much don't want things to change whereas the Horde exists to change the status quo to better suit themselves. A rising power facing the old power.

Wasn't it Khadgar and the Diamond King (whatshisface) that found it first?

Seems like there are 4 sides if true, Alliance, Horde, Azerite necklace loaders, and those who do not want to get involved (ala Khadgar).

[Stardrift]

Horde and Alliance are just like the void and the light. Neither are good. They're just opposites.
Now can we fucking stop this ____ is evil shit already?

[Shibito]

Horde and Alliance are just like the void and the light. Neither are good. They're just opposites.
Now can we fucking stop this ____ is evil shit already?

Not gonna happen alliance fanboys need to tell themselves they are the good guys every day to keep playing.

[Obelisk Kai]

Wasn't it Khadgar and the Diamond King (whatshisface) that found it first?

Seems like there are 4 sides if true, Alliance, Horde, Azerite necklace loaders, and those who do not want to get involved (ala Khadgar).

All this proves is that both sides will manipulate the facts to suit their own rationale in the end.

Which I guess is the point.

This topic is clickbait. The Alliance isn't evil. Neither is the Horde. But neither are they good guys to anyone but their own. Pick the side you favour and see where the story gets you I figure.

[Eapoe]

There's something that has been getting under my skin since the beginning of legion to now. Is that Players or Horde Fans Calling out the Alliance who is fighting back against whatever mess up plans or ideas the horde has done is a Evil Faction.

They say that "oh Forsaken is a misunderstand race only made the plague to kill off the scourge and use it for other things like replaguing lands across Lordaeron or creating Mess up Monsters under the Forsaken war Machine. But when it comes down to the alliance or worgens fighting back against the corrupted plans from Forsaken/Sylvanas they are evil, they are racist, they have no lives should be siting there doing nothing and let us keep destroying life on Azeroth."
Same goes to the New Silithus Drama. "Oh Goblins were sent to get lifeblood crystals of Azeroth for Money and for Horde to use it as Weapons of mass destruction against the alliance and anyone. But the alliance sents in Random SI 7 Agents to stop the Goblins that means they are racist and evil."
"Oh you play the Alliance only for humans? That means your a racist and Alliance Fanboy." Oh you play Draeneis, or Night Elves, or Dwarves? That makes you total racist fanboy!"

Do you see my point folks. You don't see me or anyone within the wow community acting like a social justice fanboy calling out people who plays a difference faction then yours. In this case I have been seeing more negatively on the Horde side than the Alliance. Alliance is Good band of People trying to save whatever lands they have left and Honorable Faction that supports any race. Meanwhile you use to have the Horde be these band of races trying to survive a new world while still bring Honor and Respect to anybody ether Goblin or Tauren, Blood elf or Orc. However due to blizzard's writing and caving in one a fanbase that is so ridiculous toxic I feel like this New Horde this New Sylvanas Horde is not the Horde I used to play during the times of Warcraft 3, Vanilla, and up to Wrath. I mean what does Sylvanas do? Pretty much cause more destruction and pain to anyone in only for her to remain alive as long as possible and only cares about her own people instead of the rest the horde. Its like as if She doesn't even about the position as Warchief and Rest of the Faction at all.
Say what you will about Garrosh. He may had done some terrible things but atleast it was for the good of horde even through during Mop he got lost in this true horde moment. As for Vol'jin atleast he kept everything at peace until legion came and give troll players a cheap death by having him be stabbed by a random demon.

Only reason why Blizzard made Sylvanas Windrunner Warchief is only to pleased the fanbase and She's a terribly underdeveloped character that hasn't done anything for the horde other than the Forsaken and herself. Maybe Blizzard hasn't developed her enough or maybe I'm just some salty blue fanboy. But point is this harassment of calling people racist or idiots just because they play the alliance or support it is really starting to ignore the living crap out of me. Don't see Alliance players calling the horde idiots or racist.

Bottom Line. The Horde are the aggressors because they mine azerite in Silithus without the alliance knowing and even going so far as to kill anyone on sight. Get these facts right and stop making up excuses.

"Alliance supports any race-" yet they have open hostility against the native trolls. You know, the race that NEs evolved from. The same NEs that organized open hostility against the Trolls around their lands after gaining power from the Well. Alli also contains the Humans, the race that turned their back on the HEs and left them to be almost completely wiped out. The Alliance, who never assisted the Tauren while they were being wiped out by the Quillboars, and who now declare them enemies because they formed an alliance with the Orcs. Humans who also can't get past their distrust of the Orcs of the past, knowing full well the Orcs broke their servitude of the Legion and so continue to have open hostility.
As far as the new claims, everyone has to admit what the Alli is doing in Silithus is a douchey thing to do. Horde found a new resource, started mining it, and even though both factions came off of fighting the Legion and are recovering from the war, the Alli to in and openly start killing the Goblins, who are just there mining and not attacking. The Alli didn't even approach the Horde or attempt to negotiate rights peacefully, but instead immediately jump back into actions that would declare open war.
Now, I'm not saying the Horde are good guys either, and I'm not saying they are innocent; but can you honestly sit behind your keyboard and make comments about a "noble, lawful good" faction that that behaves the way the Alli have in the past?
Both factions have done things that can be considered good and evil. That's part of decent to good storytelling. There are 3 areas, and both sides have delved into all of them.

[Deleted]

World of Warcraft's factions are not black and white.

Blizzard merely pushed the white-knight narrative towards the Alliance for so long that it feels wrong that they are being morally questionable after all this time, instead of being the Horde. Deal with it.

Huh? They aren't? The horde was mining anexplosive substance to blow up the Alliance, so of course they were right in stopping the operation. Was the right thing to get blown up again like in Theramore? It was a righteous act, and as always a defensive one.

[SaintDingus]

So far? I've not seen one on the boards. I haven't seen a single person, Horde, Alliance, or Neutral, try to portray Sylvanas as some innocent precious flower.

Mostly I've seen people arguing that she's the absolute most horrible person, ever, who wants to destroy everything because she's evil. Rather than taking the time to look through her motivations and characterizations to understand what kind of evil she is. People like myself then try to explain her actions as a series of logical progressions, emotional examinations, and more. Not trying to "Justify" her actions, but to express why her motivations and past actions don't justify the blanket mustache-twirling "She's gonna kill everyone!" position that some people throw onto her.

And then we get called Horde Fangirls, Biased, Blind, or "White Knights" because we don't hit her with a rubber stamp that just says "Irredeemably EVIL" and walk off without another thought about her.

And that last one, the one you're throwing out? Is -entirely- based on the character being female. Which is, in itself, more than a little insulting.

Also: You did say it was "The only two reasons" in your post.

Vegito is one of the fusion-dance characters, right? Vegeta, obviously, but who is the other character?

I see somehow, months later, I get back on this site and you're doing the exact same thing you did to me. You just attack people on this forum. You've really got to stop lol Idk what you do outside of pointless arguing on a video game forum, but you should possibly explore that more? You've got over 1400 posts and haven't even been on this site 5 months.

Please, if you HAVE to be on the forum, stop being such a bother.

[Cucultlan]

Huh? They aren't? The horde was mining anexplosive substance to blow up the Alliance, so of course they were right in stopping the operation. Was the right thing to get blown up again like in Theramore? It was a righteous act, and as always a defensive one.

good for who?, the alliance?, still evil on the eyes of the horde. there something that alliance fans doesnt understand... an act of war even if is done for the safety of your country still an act of war; and the alliance is taking the iniciative (preentive strike).

the horde is gathering a new resource and its dangerous?, yeah, but there is no harm made yet with it and no alliance on the zone were killed and kicked out for the horde to be able to gather (the killing of spies is after the operation in on going and the horde get there first)

[Deleted]

good for who?, the alliance?, still evil on the eyes of the horde. there something that alliance fans doesnt understand... an act of war even if is done for the safety of your country still an act of war; and the alliance is taking the iniciative (preentive strike).

the horde is gathering a new resource and its dangerous?, yeah, but there is no harm made yet with it and no alliance on the zone were killed and kicked out for the horde to be able to gather (the killing of spies is after the operation in on going and the horde get there first)

Dude, building weapons of mass destruction is an act of war.

Right now, if North korea started mining plutonium in some island in the pacific, that is an act of agression. You don't build bombs to make friends.
The missile tests they have fired in the sea of Japan can be seen as acts of war. The international community just doesn't want things to escalate, but it did lead to things like Japan deciding to build an army.

In the hordes case, they already have a history of using them too.


Like, if your neighbor starts building a huge cannon aimed at your house, you don't think that's an act of agression? You wouldn't call the police? Would the police be the agressors for tearing down his canon? Doesn't make sense.
Acts of agression aren't just direct killings.

[Cucultlan]

Dude, building weapons of mass destruction is an act of war.

Right now, if North korea started mining plutonium in some island in the pacific, that is an act of agression. You don't build bombs to make friends.
The missile tests they have fired in the sea of Japan can be seen as acts of war. The international community just doesn't want things to escalate, but it did lead to things like Japan deciding to build an army.

In the hordes case, they already have a history of using them too.

there is not weapon builded yet, there is no proyect on how to use it yet at this point of the history on wow since the mineral is new (making tasting for it, maybe). the only thing sure right now lore wise is that is a very powerful mineral, and thats it.

on the North Korea topic, its an act of war because you know that they are trying to make war to South Korea, Japan and US and you know that is plutonium used for mostly and they are trying to start a war and making loud calls for it. And on WoW right now there was a pact of no agression until the legion was deal with it (that sylvanas can legitly make a call to the alliance at the moment of the graymane ambush on stormheim) and the mineral have no real use yet.

but killing unarmed miners (civilians) and sabotaging a mine with a pact of no agression on going (doesnt remember if at some point is called that is broken out by that time frame) is an real act of war.

and yet there has been on real life wars started by assuming something by your "not friend" (not enemy yet), and is not right (even if the assumption were right at the end)

[azshanna]

1) alliance is evil for sure even more than hordes whether you like it or not...sylvanase risked her life to help varian at first cinematic but on the end of brokenshore it was greymane who left varian to death and tell me whos the evil who abandon people ? and you can see greymane chasing vengeance 24/7 ! and there are many more to mention about alliance deeds.

2)when arthas turned citizen of lordean to undeads where were u fancy stormwind humans ? it was banshee queen who set herself free and gathered citizens of lordean together and build a new home for them while you were always crying for lands instead of undeads who were once your own kind! and who's the evil one who abandon people again?

3)sylvanase is one of eldest characters in game right now and she did many things for horde and as long as you have an underdeveloped kid like anduin as your HIGH KING you cant speak about warchiefe of horde !

4)being a step ahead of alliance and extracting azerith doesn't make hordes evil ! we are at war and we need resources to win the war ! alliance would do the same if they had a mature leader !

[Steampunkette]

1) alliance is evil for sure even more than hordes whether you like it or not...sylvanase risked her life to help varian at first cinematic but on the end of brokenshore it was greymane who left varian to death and tell me whos the evil who abandon people ? and you can see greymane chasing vengeance 24/7 ! and there are many more to mention about alliance deeds.

2)when arthas turned citizen of lordean to undeads where were u fancy stormwind humans ? it was banshee queen who set herself free and gathered citizens of lordean together and build a new home for them while you were always crying for lands instead of undeads who were once your own kind! and who's the evil one who abandon people again?

3)sylvanase is one of eldest characters in game right now and she did many things for horde and as long as you have an underdeveloped kid like anduin as your HIGH KING you cant speak about warchiefe of horde !

4)being a step ahead of alliance and extracting azerith doesn't make hordes evil ! we are at war and we need resources to win the war ! alliance would do the same if they had a mature leader !

I get what you're saying but you're -seriously- stretching your case...

Sylvanas didn't risk her life for Varian, she risked her life for Azeroth, same as everyone who was present. When it became obvious the cause was hopeless, and the whole Horde army would be wiped out by the Legion, and the Alliance with it from the high ground, she sounded a retreat to let the Alliance know the position was untenable, that the battle itself was lost. The Alliance couldn't see it from their position, so assumed they were being abandoned... and then kept fighting while being overrun before issuing the inevitable order to retreat once it became obvious to -them- that the position was untenable.

Sylvanas was just acting on greater information than Varian and Greymane, but she risked her life to save the world, just like -everyone- on the broken shore did.

When Lordaeron fell, Stormwind was fighting it's -own- battles against the Scourge and the Orcish Slave Revolt. When Sylvanas was breaking free of Arthas and the Nathrezim, Stormwind was still entrenched in fighting against the Scourge. It was after the war that Stormwind shit on the Forsaken by refusing to allow them to join the Alliance on the basis of their undead state. They refused to accept that the Forsaken had been directly mind-controlled during the battling and cut them off from their families and friends who survived, and later decided to "Take Back" Lordaeron... which is pretty terrible.

Sylvanas may have done great things, but she's also done horrible ones. Where Anduin has done basically nothing but aspires to so much, and all of it pretty great. Sylvanas's actions do not paint her in a heroic light. Anti-hero, arguably.

And yeah: The Alliance declaring "Well I know what you're going to use it for!" and attacking the Horde as they mine Azerite doesn't work with a substance that no one knows fuck-all about and does not cover their ass on Casus Belli. The Horde would be perfectly reasonable to go to war off the killing of miner-civilians, the theft of a resource they mined, and the destruction of Goblin property.

[FelPlague]

All this proves is that both sides will manipulate the facts to suit their own rationale in the end.

Which I guess is the point.

This topic is clickbait. The Alliance isn't evil. Neither is the Horde. But neither are they good guys to anyone but their own. Pick the side you favour and see where the story gets you I figure.

to be fair the alliance are told to "Go to silithus and take care of any horde agressors"
well the horde are told to "Go to silithus and kill ANY ALLIANCE you see"

[ManiaCCC]

to be fair the alliance are told to "Go to silithus and take care of any horde agressors"
well the horde are told to "Go to silithus and kill ANY ALLIANCE you see"

Can you prove this? Can you post quest lines from both sides? Because that is not what I have been told in my quest chain at least not yet.

[Deleted]

The Horde is peacefully mining a resource like any other (remember the Allaince also mine it in BFA) then the Allaince send agents to kill these miners. Perspective.

Both factions exist in a grey zone. The Horde currently are darker I'll agree.

[Kathranis]

to be fair the alliance are told to "Go to silithus and take care of any horde agressors"
well the horde are told to "Go to silithus and kill ANY ALLIANCE you see"

That's not at all how the quests are worded.

Alliance is sent in to kill goblin miners, Horde is sent in to kill the SI:7 agents that are stealthed around the camps spying on them.

[Steampunkette]

to be fair the alliance are told to "Go to silithus and take care of any horde agressors"
well the horde are told to "Go to silithus and kill ANY ALLIANCE you see"

To be fair, there are no "Horde Aggressors" in Silithus. There's Horde Miners, there, doing a job digging a mineral out of the ground.

So the Alliance should go to Silithus and do noth-oh they're murdering goblins and blowing up equipment... Woopsie-doodle!

[Deleted]

To be fair, there are no "Horde Aggressors" in Silithus. There's Horde Miners, there, doing a job digging a mineral out of the ground.

So the Alliance should go to Silithus and do noth-oh they're murdering goblins and blowing up equipment... Woopsie-doodle!

There are Horde miners forcefully extracting the blood of their own planet. The blood that is the most powerful thing so far. I wonder if they will use it to create clean energy, or super mana bombs. What do you think?

[FelPlague]

To be fair, there are no "Horde Aggressors" in Silithus. There's Horde Miners, there, doing a job digging a mineral out of the ground.

So the Alliance should go to Silithus and do noth-oh they're murdering goblins and blowing up equipment... Woopsie-doodle!

they are miners harvesting the blood from our planet, basically a power even stronger then a nuclear weapon.
they are killing goblins and blowing up equipment that is harvesting a weapon of mass destruction that is literally the planets blood.
noble made a good video explaining this...

[Steampunkette]

There are Horde miners forcefully extracting the blood of their own planet. The blood that is the most powerful thing so far. I wonder if they will use it to create clean energy, or super mana bombs. What do you think?

Their Warchief is on a quest for Immortality at any price and digging up a "Powerful" magical resource. She's so obsessed with living forever that some of her own people who basically worship her as a Messianic Figure are going "Gee, Sylvanas, my Dark Lady and Banshee Queen, Savior of the People, I'm not 100% sure we should do this whole Immortality at Any Cost thing..."

So... Manabombs to antagonize her enemies into destroying her seems like a less likely option?