Unending waves of quest mobs taking longer to die isn't fun

[chrisnumbers]

You people might like Minecraft where you can spawn your gear and xp for free. Maybe WOW is just too hard for you now.

[SirCowdog]

"My character is fucking 2-3 shotting mobs.."

Your character isn't his. Maybe your character isn't his class, maybe your character isn't his spec and in a new player's case, isn't even geared as well as yours.

It is not always about how you have it. People have different experiences as they play under different circumstances.

Exactly this.

On the prot warrior I'm leveling, single mobs take upwards of 10 GCDs. But I can round up anywhere from 3-10 mobs and AoE them in almost the same time.

Different classes and specs will play differently.

[Magnagarde]

Absolutely valid point! But that doesn't change the fact that his post is an exaggerated mess. 'i have 2 hit things 1000x!!'

Doing what, autoattacking with a white ilvl 1 dagger?

He is obviously exaggerating, but as someone who is actively leveling a guardian druid on live I can definitely understand his frustration. It is pointlessly slow. Having to hit something 10 times doesn't make it more interesting or valuable.

Most of these quests are designed through the classic WoW design that entails killing a lot of specific mobs or collecting a lot of specific stuff from said mobs. The quests haven't been designed with scaling in mind and with this experience requirement in mind, which is why it is a problem.

Legion's scaling works because quests involve killing one NPC, killing three courriers while stealthing around, solving a barrel puzzle or doing a profession, not just killing X mobs and collecting X things from them.

Exactly this.

On the prot warrior I'm leveling, single mobs take upwards of 10 GCDs. But I can round up anywhere from 3-10 mobs and AoE them in almost the same time.

Different classes and specs will play differently.

And the worst problem is that almost all the quests are about killing things. Kill ten of these, kill twelve of these, collect ten of those things after killing these and all in a circle from zone to zone.

[blankfaced]

He is obviously exaggerating, but as someone who is actively leveling a guardian druid on live I can definitely understand his frustration. It is pointlessly slow. Having to hit something 10 times doesn't make it more interesting or valuable.

Most of these quests are designed through the classic WoW design that entails killing a lot of specific mobs or collecting a lot of specific stuff. The quests haven't been designed with scaling in mind and with this experience requirement in mind, which is why it is a problem.

Legion's scaling works because quests involve killing one NPC, killing three courriers while stealthing around, solving a barrel puzzle or doing a profession, not just killing X mobs and collecting X things from them.

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And the worst problem is that almost all the quests are about killing things. Kill ten of these, kill twelve of these, collecting ten of these after killing these and all in a circle from zone to zone.

OH good gravy. As a guardian druid you're more than capable of rounding up multiple mobs at once and taking them down over time though. In comparison to say a Fire mage who probably can't, but might take less time taking on individual opponents. The point is learning what your class and spec is capable of before you reach max level. Although I agree the damage mobs deal should also be increased, but it's possible it'll only affect a certain number of specs, while not even phasing a majority of them (those with some form of self heal or way to avoid the majority of damage ie pets.)

[Magnagarde]

OH good gravy. As a guardian druid you're more than capable of rounding up multiple mobs at once and taking them down over time though. In comparison to say a Fire mage who probably can't, but might take less time taking on individual opponents. The point is learning what your class and spec is capable of before you reach max level. Although I agree the damage mobs deal should also be increased, but it's possible it'll only affect a certain number of specs, while not even phasing a majority of them (those with some form of self heal or way to avoid the majority of damage ie pets.)

Learn what exactly? Hit two buttons on cooldown to reduce damage taken, tap a self-healing button and then continue mashing two other buttons on cooldown to do miniscule damage.

I never talked about whether I'm capable of killing several mobs. I am talking about the fact that they take pointlessly long to kill and that their HP pool is a simple timewaste.

I completely disagree with the damage statement you've made. The last thing cloth-wearing classes need is to have to use bandages or eat food after each pull. Those times are over, unless Blizzard wants to smithe their subcount and number of players.

[Mister Cheese]

I don't see how the game is so much harder now. My Shadow Priest was level 14. I killed Knucklerot and Luzran in the span of 2 minutes of eachother by myself so... sounds like a you problem. Get good.

[Magnagarde]

How many more will post about how they kill things with ease and without dying, when the whole point of the original post is to point out how surviving is no issue, but the fact that it takes too long to kill an average mob which you are looting rotten apples from to give to your questgiver.

[SirCowdog]

And the worst problem is that almost all the quests are about killing things. Kill ten of these, kill twelve of these, collect ten of those things after killing these and all in a circle from zone to zone.

OH good gravy. As a guardian druid you're more than capable of rounding up multiple mobs at once and taking them down over time though. In comparison to say a Fire mage who probably can't, but might take less time taking on individual opponents. The point is learning what your class and spec is capable of before you reach max level. Although I agree the damage mobs deal should also be increased, but it's possible it'll only affect a certain number of specs, while not even phasing a majority of them (those with some form of self heal or way to avoid the majority of damage ie pets.)

I can see both sides of the argument. On the one hand going through the different expansions with their different types of content will strongly encourage players to try different specs and styles of play. Being able to switch at any in or city makes this easy, since hear automatically switches with spec too.

But on the other hand, none of that would be necessary if the quest flow and balance weren't so out of whack. TBC and WotLK quest and encounter design is horrible for current class balance. You can kill 10 target mobs and only get 1-2 quest items to drop. This highly favors AoE style of play, which some specs just aren't good at.

Really, as far as I can tell, the only real problem is with TBC and WotLK content. You honestly should be able to skip them and flow straight through the 1-60zones into the actual cata zones(vashj'ir, hyjal, Deepholme, etc). Put TBC and WotLK in time walking or something. The newer zone design since cata works better.

[Dergiab]

Blizzard makes leveling hard, then make it really easy, then they go back to making it hard. I don't understand the obsession with difficulty. Its not a question of difficulty really. Leveling needs to be more SOCIAL.

Lol, you call current state hard?

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How many more will post about how they kill things with ease and without dying, when the whole point of the original post is to point out how surviving is no issue, but the fact that it takes too long to kill an average mob which you are looting rotten apples from to give to your questgiver.

7 seconds too long? That is how fast it goes on my Holy Priest, a fucking healing spec.

[Foj]

My character is fucking 2-3 shotting mobs still. If anything, mobs still need a HP and damage buff IMHO.

Not everyone has the new mythic heirlooms.

[HuxNeva]

You could have experienced that anytime by not using heirlooms

Doing something harder when you know there is an easy option shouldn't be the choice you have to make.

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Blizzard Entertainment Inc., putting the F U in fun since 2004

And yet, here you are. XD

[Foj]

Blizzard Entertainment Inc., putting the F U in fun since 2004

My buddy! Francis Urquhart!

[shoc]

Here is some random footage of questing in Hellfire Peninsula as a Level 60 fighting Level 60 mobs.



Killing a mob is still waaaay faster than it was during TBC. Mobs dealt similar amounts of damage then as they do now. Yet, if we were to poll a thousand players who experienced TBC when it was released, I'd bet that a strong majority of them would reminisce about how it was a very positive experience. I don't think 7.3.5 did anything but to bring WoW leveling back to the experience that a generation of MMO players fell in love with.

[Nerovar]

I don't get all the people describing the changes in 7.2.5 as Blizzard making leveling harder. Seriously? Is that your definition of harder? A bigger HP pool? Good God...

Here is some random footage of questing in Hellfire Peninsula as a Level 60 fighting Level 60 mobs.

Killing a mob is still waaaay faster than it was during TBC. Mobs dealt similar amounts of damage then as they do now. Yet, if we were to poll a thousand players who experienced TBC when it was released, I'd bet that a strong majority of them would reminisce about how it was a very positive experience. I don't think 7.3.5 did anything but to bring WoW leveling back to the experience that a generation of MMO players fell in love with.

The difference is quite obvious if you take a look at the action bars. At level 60 you basically had 90% of your abilities during TBC. Compare that to level 60 in Legion. Leveling is fun if it challenges you by requiring you to approach NPCs with your full set of skills (classic Swtor managed to this also quite well). If you just spam two buttons because you get all the other spells at max level then where's the fun in that? The criticisms are not about difficulty. It's just a silly band-aid solution for a much bigger problem (class design) and all it does is extend the time it takes for you to get to the actual content of the game (since leveling has become obsolete for a long time) which incidentally promotes their stupid 60€ micro-transaction level boost (I'm pretty sure more people will consider buying that shit now).

Also I don't know a single person who has asked for this change.

[Tntdruid]

Mobs die in like 3 hits, i dont use any loom.

[Deleted]

I came here to say this. But maybe I will be a little ruder:

Cut the crap already. This is bullshit hyperbole. Thanks.

My character is fucking 2-3 shotting mobs still. If anything, mobs still need a HP and damage buff IMHO.

I agree, I want the mobs damage to increase more but the amount of babies on the official forums is unreal about how long it's taking to kill a mob etc, even though this is nothing compared to vanilla/TBC still, I just saw a blue post with Lore saying this because people moaned on the forums "That said, we’re certainly taking the feedback about the rate of leveling alts into account as we move forward with the game’s development. We’ve been happy with the changes so far, but if leveling is too slow, we’d rather address that in the game itself than have Refer-A-Friend be some kind of bizarre workaround to an outstanding issue."

Leveling too slow?! If they up the rate of leveling again I am literally going to just stop playing the game end of, I waited for something like this to enter the game, if they take it away I just really cba and wait for Vanilla.

[Foj]

Here is some random footage of questing in Hellfire Peninsula as a Level 60 fighting Level 60 mobs.



Killing a mob is still waaaay faster than it was during TBC. Mobs dealt similar amounts of damage then as they do now. Yet, if we were to poll a thousand players who experienced TBC when it was released, I'd bet that a strong majority of them would reminisce about how it was a very positive experience. I don't think 7.3.5 did anything but to bring WoW leveling back to the experience that a generation of MMO players fell in love with.

people love grinding when they're done with it and they imagine other players having to do it too because fuck you i'm king of the hill come get me but kill some boars in the forest first fucker

people are resentful about grinding when they spent weeks of their lives grinding and wrath comes along and noobs are like wtf did you do that for and now the noobs are next to them on the devalued top of the hill

people love grinding when noobs have to grind again thanks to blizzard twisting the wayback machine knobs, except the noobs don't grind because they have the L100 button, and the people who remember grinding have to grind again because they don't want to buy L100 buttons because that would be like not grinding again, and grinding is the foundation of their self-esteem

so at this point nobody is enjoying grinding again

[Otimus]

Yeah, but people always take the path of least resistance. If a quest is elite or difficult they'll either group up, or more likely skip it considering it not worth the trouble. If a quest isn't difficult they'll solo it and move on. Nothing Blizzard can do to make people more social when they don't want to be.

Sure they could. What if with each party member you added (up to 5, of course), you get bonus XP, instead of less XP (which is insanely fucked up that that's even a thing, it's what makes low level players not want to play with one another to begin with) and you also got bonus XP to turning in quests. Not like a ton, enough to where you wouldn't be at a big disadvantage solo-ing, but enough for it to encourage strangers to play together. This is how it always should have worked, instead of punishing people for playing together, IMHO.

[Foj]

Sure they could. What if with each party member you added (up to 5, of course), you get bonus XP, instead of less XP (which is insanely fucked up that that's even a thing, it's what makes low level players not want to play with one another to begin with) and you also got bonus XP to turning in quests. Not like a ton, enough to where you wouldn't be at a big disadvantage solo-ing, but enough for it to encourage strangers to play together. This is how it always should have worked, instead of punishing people for playing together, IMHO.

maybe i'm a hopeless romantic, but a quick hookup with strangers doesn't really constitute social gameplay for me

although blizzard could introduce a swipe right swipe left matchmaking service

[Aleksej89]

As i said before, mobs in vanilla were DANGEROUS - they dealt a ton of damage and were difficult to damage (parry, miss, resist, glancing...).
That is what made it a fun experience... it was almost like a light version of dark souls, where even a single mob could be fatal to you (depending on your class).

If right now mobs just have a ton of health without also providing any kind of danger then that is just boring.
Mobs need to be a real danger and threat for players to actually get a challenge and some fun fighting them and surviving the odds.

Simply put it is WRONG and BORING if i can go from lvl 1 to lvl 109 without being close to dying even once despite constantly engaging 5+ mobs at once that are my level or higher...