Kentucky High School shooting...seriously? Another shooting?

[Ghostpanther]

Your nieve to think your opinion matters much more just because you live there, one tiny little vote is like sand in a desert, public opinion as a whole controls the country not a tiny grain of sand your influence over your country is almost none existent as is ours not being there. Public opinion can(doesn't always mean it will) be influenced by wider society i/e the rest of the world.

I am not sure you even understand how we amend a Constitutional amendment here in the US. If you did, you would know what I mean. It was designed on purpose to not be amended by popular opinion or vote. A amendment must be approved by 3/4 of the states and then 2/3 of Congress to ratify. You can have 70% of the public as a whole in favor of such and still fail based on a lack of enough of the smaller populated states to be in favor of it.


An amendment may be proposed and sent to the states for ratification by either:

The United States Congress, whenever a two-thirds majority in both the Senate and the House of Representatives deem it necessary;

OR

A national convention, called by Congress for this purpose, on the application of the legislatures of two-thirds (currently 34) of the states.

To become part of the Constitution, an amendment must be ratified by either (as determined by Congress):

The legislatures of three-fourths (currently 38) of the states, within the stipulated time period—if any;

OR

State ratifying conventions in three-fourths (currently 38) of the states, within the stipulated time period—if any.

Upon being properly ratified, an amendment becomes an operative addition to the Constitution.

[Isoge]

I don't believe banning guns is the answer really. Not anymore. That train has passed a long time ago.

Guns protecting people against criminals? A 2012 study (https://www.motherjones.com/politics...ass-shootings/) shows that from the 62 preceding mass-shootings, none of them were stopped by a civilian with a gun. Instead, you had cases where people trying to stop the ended up getting shot themselves or putting others at risk.

As if that isn't enough, what would the police do if there is an active shooter and they see an idiot with a gun pretending to be a hero?
Studies show that most citizens aren't effective beyond a distance of 25 yards. With increasing distance, the person with a gun only becomes a bigger threat to the innocent bystanders and not the perp. And in the Las Vegas shooting, had there been people aiming with a gun trying to find the shooter, the odds of them getting shot by police would have been higher than them gunning down the gunman in the hotel.
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_a..._gun_line.html


Enough with the mass shootings, what about domestic violence? At the very least, there are over 2000 domestic violence related homicides. 69% of the victims (both genders: http://www.vpc.org/press/more-than-1...w-study-finds/) are killed by guns (where 53% of those are female: https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/fvv.pdf)
What about the police officers? There is a study (http://www.nleomf.org/assets/pdfs/of...nal-8-2-16.pdf) that shows that out of the 20 deaths of officers that responded to domestic disturbance calls, 19 of those were killed by a firearm. So 95% of the officers killed responding to a domestic disturbance call are killed by guns.

No wonder you have police scared shitless, shooting civilians if they do so much as scratch an itch or even obey the police's command (http://edition.cnn.com/2017/12/11/op...ano/index.html).

This year so far, http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/, there have been 3200+ cases involving guns, 911 dead. In the last 72 hours, 272 reports of gun violence.

Does the NRA promote these facts when they try to sell you a gun? No. Instead all you hear about is that uber driver that shot a perpetrator opening fire on a crowd (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...419-story.html) ending his rampage.
Or the case of a bar patron that shot a guy that killed two people in a bar (http://wnep.com/2013/10/15/guilty-pl...hooting-death/).
There are a few cases like these, and these are heavily promoted and the real statistics kept really lowkey for a reason. Huge corporations don't want you to know. 'Protect your 2nd Amendment' is beyond absurd when statistics only shows one clear result: More guns equal more gun deaths. Roughly 0.9% increase in deaths per 1% increase in gun ownerships. So yes, banning guns wouldn't solve the problem. Far from. But it certainly would help.

Defend your hobby. Sure. But don't claim that it's for your own of your family's protection. The ratio of justifiable kills for every murder, suicide or accidental deaths was 1 in every 32 in 2012 (or 1 in every 38 for the five year period ending in 2012): https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s...ndhomicidemain. That is a really heavy price to pay.

[zenkai]

Is Japan as big as the US?As your ex-girlfriend told you "Size does not matter" as they have an even higher population density. Yes Japan does have a better education, healthcare and legal system
Is Japan on the boarder on Mexico? Canada Borders the US and we do not have the same gun issues you do? And to use your argument Canada is BIGGER
Does Japan have the same culture as US? Maybe it is time to adjust your culture......The Gun toting one is obviously not functioning properly.....Is it?

Thank you for proving you have no idea WTF you are talking about, do some research. Do you think most guns and drugs come from Canada or Mexico?

Also nice childish reply, if you can't talk like an adult please leave the conversations to the adults.

[Cruor]

Who is the "you know who" you are talking about?

I ask, because my city is 50% black, and has a crime rate that is less than half the national average. It's about 40% white, and white people have caused literally all the murders in my city in the past 11 years.

What city is that? I'm treading on very thin ice here with the infraction police, if you can't agree that certain races in the USA commit way more crime than others as a % of the population, there is no need to have a further discussion. It's a problem we need to focus on and tackle but can't because it would be "racist" to do so. This site promotes and enforces the "you can't say that" policy, so how can we ever fix an issue if we can't talk about it?

[Machismo]

What city is that? I'm treading on very thin ice here with the infraction police, if you can't agree that certain races in the USA commit way more crime than others as a % of the population, there is no need to have a further discussion. It's a problem we need to focus on and tackle but can't because it would be "racist" to do so. This site promotes and enforces the "you can't say that" policy, so how can we ever fix an issue if we can't talk about it?

I'm not going to give you the city I live in, it's less than 100,000 people, and I'm not a big fan of narrowing down my identity that close.

Certain racial demographics do commit more crime. However, it appears that that is an issue of correlation, not causation. In reality, crime rates are significantly more impacted by economic health than racial tendencies. My city is a perfect example of that. Simply put, poor people commit more crimes. If you go less than an hour away, you will see the crime rates increase dramatically, even though the racial demographics are very similar. You also have small cities in poor southern states (Anniston, Alabama comes to mind) where the crime rate is out of hand. Interestingly enough, Anniston, Alabama has almost the exact same racial demographic as my city does. The nearest city from where I grew up is 80% white, and has a very high crime rate, including murders.

In the end, it's not so much about race, as it is about economic issues.

[Deleted]

You have a right to your opinion. It just so happens when it comes to the US, it has no effect at all. In other words, a lot of us over here do not care what others outside our country think. The Second Amendment is not going to be amended is my opinion and since I would be a part of any amendment process, that carries more weight.

And that is why so many people don't like you and your country.

Disapproval of the United States of America just gets more and more common every day.

[Chaelexi]

Thank you for proving you have no idea WTF you are talking about, do some research. Do you think most guns and drugs come from Canada or Mexico?

Also nice childish reply, if you can't talk like an adult please leave the conversations to the adults.

Most of your guns come from within the US...... If you think that your gun problem comes from the Mexico give your head a shake...... Stop trying to project the lack of control in the US to another nation.

[GennGreymane]

Thank you for proving you have no idea WTF you are talking about, do some research. Do you think most guns and drugs come from Canada or Mexico?

Also nice childish reply, if you can't talk like an adult please leave the conversations to the adults.

lead by exmple
The amount of flaming here is a bit much.

[stomination]

Yeh, maybe, but if you compare Glasgow to a US city of similar population size you’ll find that Glasgow isn’t very dangerous. Both Glasgow and Milwaukee have a population of around 600k, in 2015-2016 Glasgow had 14 murders while Milwaukee had 154 murders in 2015. The US could only dream of such a low murder rate in their most dangerous city.

You know I usually dont do this and actually hate using it because I believe its just a few bad eggs for all sorts of people......but.......

There is a glaring difference in the demographic of Glasgow and Milwaukee.....

[Chaelexi]

Which most of it is tundra and ice. The US has a higher population in some single states then there. Japan has their own unique issues. And it is up to the Japanese people to solve them. Same as it is up to us here in the states to solve our issues. Gun toting is functioning well for the vast majority here. There are more dying from other preventable causes here than gun violence. Far more.

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I never said it was not possible. But what they did in Australia and other countries is basically impossible here. I am for more reasonable gun control laws if you have been reading this thread more, you would know. Such as universal back ground checks and making Bumpstocks illegal.

Really you have the highest gun death rate in all of the developed nations by many times over........Is that considered working? Cops shoot first because of concealed carry laws in the US because you can not be certain that the guy you are arresting is not going to pull a gun back. But yes it is working for the Vast Majority up there...... Please explain how this is working......I would not be surprised the wild west had less gun deaths per capita than currently.

I used Canada because he was using the statement that the US is bigger than Japan of course there are more gun deaths...... does Japan have issues, yes... but they are doing things about them. The US has a gun death issue and they are turning a blind eye to it because the 2nd amendment that was written over 200 years ago.

I used Japan because they have higher population density than the guy. He flipped it to be based off of size so I used Canada. The guy had no response other than trying to dismiss it.

Please tell me there is not a gun death issue in the states.......

[cuafpr]

Really you have the highest gun death rate in all of the developed nations by many times over........Is that considered working? Cops shoot first because of concealed carry laws in the US because you can not be certain that the guy you are arresting is not going to pull a gun back. But yes it is working for the Vast Majority up there...... Please explain how this is working......I would not be surprised the wild west had less gun deaths per capita than currently.

I used Canada because he was using the statement that the US is bigger than Japan of course there are more gun deaths...... does Japan have issues, yes... but they are doing things about them. The US has a gun death issue and they are turning a blind eye to it because the 2nd amendment that was written over 200 years ago.

I used Japan because they have higher population density than the guy. He flipped it to be based off of size so I used Canada. The guy had no response other than trying to dismiss it.

Please tell me there is not a gun death issue in the states.......

so if the wild west had a lower gun death rate, when more people had guns and less regulation how exactly would that prove the US needs more?? Heck i know my parents grew up in a time when people left guns in the gun racks in their pick ups at school so they could go strait to hunting after school, or just because that is where the gun stayed. Something changed over the decades and not just the amount of guns.

[Protean]

And everybody that quotes that makes me realize how too many people forget the Joker is a deliberately written villain for a reason and not some misunderstood genius with a "true" perspective of reality. Gang violence is reported quite often and, just like a public shooting, makes headlines when innocent people get killed.

School shootings tend to have innocent people getting killed. Gang-on-gang violence, not so much - hence, not the bigger headlines. More people "lose their minds" when that violence creeps in closer to innocent home than contained in some backwater urban hellhole of awful people killing equally awful people.

That something is said by a fictional character does not invalidate what was said. The character didn't just spontaneously appear, but was written by a human being who made his/her own observations.

You also seemed to miss the point. People just care less when gang-bangers die, because they're expected to. It's not part of the plan/norm/whatever that school kids get shot up. Actual size of headlines isn't the point, it's the feelings that happen in people when these events occur.

[kail]

Which is still not a realistic solution. Thankfully the Constitution negates what even the majority wants. Even the nuclear option is not going to happen, unless you are thinking a Civil war and the Constitution being completely rewritten. :P

If the majority did want to go AU style, it would. The Constitution is not written in stone, it is an evolving document that adjusts with the times. Sometimes it adjusts earlier than society, often times much later.

As of right now, the majority do not want to go the route here in the U.S., nothing will change until society changes.

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Terror attacks and school shootings are part and parcel of living in a big city. In London they cant ban trucks, like they cant ban guns in Usa. Trucks and guns are required tools for daily life.

Guns are not required unless it's part of your occupation. Where the hell did you spring that idea from?

[Ghostpanther]

And that is why so many people don't like you and your country.

Disapproval of the United States of America just gets more and more common every day.

I have no concerns if people do not like me because of my personal stances. Or what other countries think of the US. If you are a US citizen, then I will tell you to get out and vote for what you want and use legal means to get it done. If not?....pfft.

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Really you have the highest gun death rate in all of the developed nations by many times over........Is that considered working? Cops shoot first because of concealed carry laws in the US because you can not be certain that the guy you are arresting is not going to pull a gun back. But yes it is working for the Vast Majority up there...... Please explain how this is working......I would not be surprised the wild west had less gun deaths per capita than currently.

I used Canada because he was using the statement that the US is bigger than Japan of course there are more gun deaths...... does Japan have issues, yes... but they are doing things about them. The US has a gun death issue and they are turning a blind eye to it because the 2nd amendment that was written over 200 years ago.

I used Japan because they have higher population density than the guy. He flipped it to be based off of size so I used Canada. The guy had no response other than trying to dismiss it.

Please tell me there is not a gun death issue in the states.......

So was the other freedoms such as speech, religion. Some values have no expiration dates.

Ok, I will tell you. We have no gun death issue here which is bad enough to take away the rights of the lawful citizens.

[urasim]

And that is why so many people don't like you and your country.

Disapproval of the United States of America just gets more and more common every day.

That's why sooooo many people are trying to get into the country, right? Because everyone hates it.

Cut the shit. You speak for yourself and ONLY yourself.

[Ghostpanther]

If the majority did want to go AU style, it would. The Constitution is not written in stone, it is an evolving document that adjusts with the times. Sometimes it adjusts earlier than society, often times much later.

As of right now, the majority do not want to go the route here in the U.S., nothing will change until society changes.

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Guns are not required unless it's part of your occupation. Where the hell did you spring that idea from?

AU style? And yes, it can be amended. I never said it can't be. I even pointed out in one post how that is done. But of over 11,000 attempts, it has only been done 28 times. But there are some basic rights in it which there is no need to adjust with the times. Some things are timeless. Such as the right to defend yourself successfully.

[Karnige]

I dont know what's worse. the school shootings or the people somehow defending guns still.... america has issues my god. take japan, canada, and europe and it still doesn't equal to the amount of school shootings as the states gets every year.... not even remotely close.

[Ghostpanther]

I dont know what's worse. the school shootings or the people somehow defending guns still.... america has issues my god. take japan, canada, and europe and it still doesn't equal to the amount of school shootings as the states gets every year.... not even remotely close.

And those countries have every right to establish their own laws and to what extent the rights they allow for their citizens. We have issues of course. No such thing as a perfect nation. But I have no desire to live anyplace else and even if I did, I would still believe in the principle of a old motto........

" God may have made mankind, but Samuel Colt made them equal."

And since you mentioned Japan, one of their issues is a suicide rate higher than what it is in the US.

[RuneDK]

Well well well, this thread is gonna go places. the usual shitshow between gunlovers and sane ppl ! oh no xD

So all gun owners aren't sane people? Notice how all these shootings happen in gun free zones? How will getting rid of guns effect the gun related crimes in cities like Detroit, Chicago, or Baltimore?

I'm not even a gun owner and think this statement is just plain stupid.

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The most ironic part of the "criminals will get guns regardless of regulations" argument is that it completely ignores the fact that the vast majority of shooters in these mass shootings and school shootings acquired the guns in a completely legal manner. Most often the kids get the guns because their parents didn't properly secure them.

I think in addition to requiring mental health evaluations and background checks, we also need to start prosecuting parents of kids who take their guns and kill people. The parent is responsible for the kid getting the gun. Have a gun safe, have trigger locks, keep the ammunition locked in a separate location and keep the keys to all of it on your body at all times. People have got to start being responsible for the guns they bring into their homes.

To the bolded......Kids obtaining the gun from their parents is not a completely legal manner. They are stealing a firearm that isn't theirs. Did you even read that sentence after you typed it? They shot up a school with an illegal firearm to them. Just because their parents got it legally does not mean they(the kid) obtained it's possession legally.

To the bottom non-bolded part...I do agree...Parents of school shooters should be held accountable for their kids actions and should be prosecuted in that manner if they leave their guns unsecured.

[Ghostpanther]

So all gun owners aren't sane people? Notice how all these shootings happen in gun free zones? How will getting rid of guns effect the gun related crimes in cities like Detroit, Chicago, or Baltimore?

I'm not even a gun owner and think this statement is just plain stupid.

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To the bolded......Kids obtaining the gun from their parents is not a completely legal manner. They are stealing a firearm that isn't theirs. Did you even read that sentence after you typed it? They shot up a school with an illegal firearm to them. Just because their parents got it legally does not mean they(the kid) obtained it's possession legally.

To the bottom non-bolded part...I do agree...Parents of school shooters should be held accountable for their kids actions and should be prosecuted in that manner if they leave their guns unsecured.

That is how some think. If you do not agree with their ideology or political point of view, it is a matter of you not being a sane person. This is the propaganda the fascists like to push. Lump all types of undesirables right into the same group of the mentally ill. Nazism 101.

His point about the vast majority of mass shootings being done with legal gun owners is blatantly false. Does he think that a mass shooting is only those which occur in schools, churches and concerts?

I agree the parents who carelessly leave a firearm out for easy access by minors in their homes, do bare some of the blame and thus should suffer some prosecution.