Why do people hate economic refugees ?

[downnola]

Yes, it is. Do you not know how "like" is used in this context? He's not like other boys. She's not like other girls. US welfare systems is not like Swedens.

USA didn't have any welfare state like Sweden does and does not have so today either.

Is that too complex to understand for you?

You don't know when to quit.

It's absolutely absurd to pretend that the money we spend on welfare and entitlement programs a) isn't a substantial portion of our total spending and b) isn't a major point of contention in the U.S. immigration debate.

[Player Twelve]

You don't know when to quit.

It's absolutely absurd to pretend that the money we spend on welfare and entitlement programs a) isn't a substantial portion of our total spending and b) isn't a major point of contention in the U.S. immigration debate.

You don't know how to read. Your welfare systems are nothing like Swedens are now, especially not when you had your major migration waves because you know... You didn't even have any worth mentioning at that point and it basically consisted of charities, if it could even be called that. So, people had to make money to survive, unlike in Sweden where you can just sit in your home and roll your thumbs while getting the same money as a factory worker gets in pay if you're a refugee.

[downnola]

You don't know how to read. Your welfare systems are nothing like Swedens are now, especially not when you had your major migration waves because you know... You didn't even have any worth mentioning at that point and it basically consisted of charities, if it could even be called that. So, people had to make money to survive, unlike in Sweden where you can just sit in your home and roll your thumbs while getting the same money as a factory worker gets in pay if you're a refugee.

I've already copy/pasted your post back to you and bolded the part where you made a claim about the present. I'm not doing it again.

The problem is your inability to make coherent arguments, not my reading comprehension.

[Player Twelve]

I've already copy/pasted your post back to you and bolded the part where you made a claim about the present. I'm not doing it again.

The problem is your inability to make coherent arguments, not my reading comprehension.

I already addressed it. You do have reading comprehension problems.

[downnola]

I already addressed it. You do have reading comprehension problems.

I understood your response just fine. It was a load of bullshit and I dismissed it.

[Deleted]

You don't know when to quit.

It's absolutely absurd to pretend that the money we spend on welfare and entitlement programs a) isn't a substantial portion of our total spending and b) isn't a major point of contention in the U.S. immigration debate.

Country Tax as % of GDP[1]
Timor-Leste 61.5[20]
Norway 54.8 [14]
Finland 54.2 [9]
Denmark 50.8[7]
Sweden 50.5 %[18]
Belgium 47.9[3]
France 47.9[10]
Cuba 44.8
Germany 44.5
- cutting out ranks -
United States 26.0%

Yes, very comparable - Very.

[downnola]

Yes, very comparable - Very.

We're talking about public expenditure, not tax rates. You do realize that we've spent more than we've taken in for the past 2 decades, right?

[Player Twelve]

We're talking about public expenditure, not tax rates. You do realize that we've spent more than we've taken in for the past 2 decades, right?

That doesn't make it anything like ours. We have universal health care. People in Sweden don't have to put aside money for paying for treatments, unlike in USA. At most I pay $150 per year for health care and maximum of $277 for medicine regardless of what the treatment is with the exception of some extreme cases with crazy expensive treatment.

Here people get their living expenses covered for if they end up in a shitty situation economically, in USA you end up homeless. The people who end up homeless here are mostly drug addicts or alcoholics because the board requires them to undergo rehabilitation against their addiction to be eligible for economic assistance and they say no because they like their drugs or alcohol more. Going to university doesn't cost any tuition fees.

It's nothing like Sweden.



And you think you're like Sweden? No.

[downnola]

That doesn't make it anything like ours. We have universal health care. People in Sweden don't have to put aside money for paying for treatments, unlike in USA. At most I pay $150 per year for health care and maximum of $277 for medicine regardless of what the treatment is with the exception of some extreme cases with crazy expensive treatment.

Here people get their living expenses covered for if they end up in a shitty situation economically, in USA you end up homeless. The people who end up homeless here are mostly drug addicts or alcoholics because the board requires them to undergo rehabilitation against their addiction to be eligible for economic assistance and they say no because they like their drugs or alcohol more. Going to university doesn't cost any tuition fees.

It's nothing like Sweden.



And you think you're like Sweden? No.

I didn't say we're like Sweden. We're not like Sweden at all (thank fuck for that). I'm saying your argument that we have to spend as much as Sweden for immigration to cause problems is a load of nonsense. Immigration to the U.S. has expanded 10 fold since WW2, and so has public expenditure. We may not spend as much as Sweden as a percentage of GDP, but we're close when it comes to public spending per capita. What makes it worse is that our welfare system is layered at the federal and state level. It's an inefficient, convoluted system with a shit ton of waste. So the fuck what if we don't spend as much as Sweden? That doesn't stop immigration from being a major debate in our country, and a major source of polarization in our last election.

You should thank your lucky stars that your country has a population the size of NYC. A country that size is much easier to manage.

[Player Twelve]

I'm saying your argument that we have to spend as much as Sweden for it to cause problems with welfare spending is a load of nonsense.

That's not what I said at all. I said immigrants are not working in enough numbers in Sweden because of our welfare state providing them a comfortable life without having to lift a finger, while in USA you actually have to work to live a comfortable life and even more so when you had your major migration waves. Reading comprehension problems, as I said.

Sweden has a pull factor that you don't because of our welfare state. You can't just go to USA and just roll your thumbs at home while cashing in enough money from the welfare board to live a comfortable life. If you don't work in USA you live a very uncomfortable life.

[downnola]

That's not what I said at all. I said immigrants are not working in enough numbers in Sweden because of our welfare state providing them a comfortable life without having to lift a finger, while in USA you actually have to work to live a comfortable life and even more so when you had your major migration waves. Reading comprehension problems, as I said.

Sweden has a pull factor that you don't because of our welfare state. You can't just go to USA and just roll your thumbs at home while cashing in enough money from the welfare board to live a comfortable life. If you don't work in USA you live a very uncomfortable life.

There are plenty of conservatives in my country, including the President, that make the same argument about our immigrants. You don't know what you're talking about, plain and simple.

[Player Twelve]

There are plenty of conservatives in my country, including the President, that make the same argument about our immigrants. You don't know what you're talking about, plain and simple.

You can't live a comfortable life on the small amount of support you offer to people. So that's a moot point. You don't give them like $2850(Basically what a factory worker earns working 40 hours per week in a 2 shift factory job) taxfree per month if they have 3 kids, for doing nothing. Even without kids they'd be getting like $1900 for a single person.

[Deleted]

Rather than making our economy better, we should flee and seek countries that do well.

That's stupid, enough reasons.

[I Push Buttons]

You can't live a comfortable life on the small amount of support you offer to people. So that's a moot point. You don't give them like $2850 taxfree per month if they have 3 kids, for doing nothing.

Actually we do. In some areas it is quite generous.

Section 8 housing vouchers (depending on location and size of home/family): Anywhere from $1000-$4000/month.
SNAP (food stamps): ~$150/month per person
Medicaid (health insurance): The cheapest legal health insurance plans are like $200-$300/month if you are young, medicaid is better than those in that there is very little out of pocket cost.
Welfare (just plain money): ~$600/month.

There is also utility assistance, transportation assistance, and most ISPs even offer discounted rates for cable TV and internet to people on public assistance.

Most of these things are paid for at the state level. Total federal and state spending for this year, for example, is $7.2 trillion; about 36% of GDP.

[Player Twelve]

Actually we do. In some areas it is quite generous.

Section 8 housing vouchers (depending on location and size of home/family): Anywhere from $1000-$4000/month.
SNAP (food stamps): ~$150/month per person
Medicaid (health insurance): The cheapest legal health insurance plans are like $200-$300/month if you are young, medicaid is better than those in that there is very little out of pocket cost.
Welfare (just plain money): ~$600/month.

There is also utility assistance, transportation assistance, and most ISPs even offer discounted rates for cable TV and internet to people on public assistance.

Most of these things are paid for at the state level. Total federal and state spending for this year, for example, is $7.2 trillion; about 36% of GDP.

If that's the case, why do so many people have to work 2 jobs just to make ends meet?

http://nordic.businessinsider.com/mo...17-8?r=US&IR=T

[I Push Buttons]

If that's the case, why do so many people have to work 2 jobs just to make ends meet?

Because all of those things have a stigma attached to them.

[downnola]

You can't live a comfortable life on the small amount of support you offer to people. So that's a moot point. You don't give them like $2850(Basically what a factory worker earns working 40 hours per week in a 2 shift factory job) taxfree per month if they have 3 kids, for doing nothing. Even without kids they'd be getting like $1900 for a single person.

How is this an argument against immigration, rather than an argument against your cradle to grave welfare system? Unless you're specifically saying that these particular immigrants are just lazy. By your own argument, they wouldn't be so lazy if they "had to work" like they do in America.

[Player Twelve]

How is this an argument against immigration, rather than an argument against your cradle to grave welfare system? Unless you're specifically saying that these particular immigrants are just lazy.

They are just lazy. Protestant work ethics permeates Swedish culture and the system works just fine for us but when you introduce people who don't share the same work ethics then it causes problems. The system is meant for people who struggle, not people who just want to roll their thumbs.

Because all of those things have a stigma attached to them.

Riiiight. I'm gonna need a source.

[downnola]

They are just lazy. Protestant work ethics permeates Swedish culture and the system works just fine for us but when you introduce people who don't share the same work ethics then it causes problems. The system is meant for people who struggle, not people who just want to roll their thumbs.

LOL. I rest my case.

[I Push Buttons]

Riiiight. I'm gonna need a source.

A source of what?

There has been a stigma towards welfare for decades... It is simply a known fact.

Will this do? What exactly are you after here?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16542766