The Butchery of Survival in BFA

[shaunika123]

well, they changed survival a lot in both legion's alpha and beta, they just didn't change it to what some people asked for.

yeah, same happened to sub rogues

it took them literally till 7.2 to listen to advice.

granted the new version is probably the best version of the spec like, ever maybe. (excepting some fringe cases where the combination of setbonuses, etc made it super amazing like HFC, and dragon soul) but it did take them like 1,5 years.

I'm just saying that whenever someone complains of a spec's state in alpha/beta people immediately tell him to "it's only alpha relax" and then it gets implemented. like the reason we whine is cos we dont want that version of the spec :P

[infinitemeridian]

Jesus christ, they are not making survival a ranged spec - is UH DK a ranged spec now?

[Puupi]

I can't understand how some people consider the current live iteration of survival rotation to be a hallmark of class design.

You have all traps ready and not on cooldown, you don't have dots on target, none of your abilities are on cooldown, your focus is capped at 100.

Yet what you do is spam mongoose bite for 15 seconds straight.

So Blizzard is taking a big step in the right direction by removing the current mongoose bite mechanic. It's an utter design failure - especially with the artifact weapon ability.

However, thematically etc. survival is fine - just the core rotation is completely messed up.

[Bepples]

Survival is not popular not because it's a melee

Wrong.

http://warcraft.blizzplanet.com/blog...-3-interview/2

We knew with Survival Hunter that we were making a niche spec. It is a melee spec for a class that has traditionally being range. I think that a lot of existing hunters, they are all hunters because they want to be a range class, and so we don’t necessarily expect them or want them to feel like they should be changing

[Mavick]

Wrong.

http://warcraft.blizzplanet.com/blog...-3-interview/2

This isn't really an all one way or all the other kind of thing. It being melee DEFINITELY contributes to its lack of popularity and certainly pretty heavily, but that is also not the only thing that has held it back either.

[threads]

BfA SV has loads of ranged abilities now, all they need to add now is a talent that swaps the few melee abilities with ranged versions and let's you use a bow.

you will suddenly see SV hunters everywhere.

[Devilyaki]

Maybe they will make it a healing spec this expansion

[Dadwen]

Maybe they will make it a healing spec this expansion

the current class designers are just dumb enough to do it.

[reynesthan1]

I am hoping they make it a bounce spec, through talents can be melee or ranged, or a hybrid, the cd adds ranged onto the raptor strike, and i am hoping it also lets us auto from ranged, like throw spear style. the 100 talent has promise for this play style, leap out for haste harpoon in for crit.

[Nythiz]

This isn't really an all one way or all the other kind of thing. It being melee DEFINITELY contributes to its lack of popularity and certainly pretty heavily, but that is also not the only thing that has held it back either.

True. But the statement he quoted said that the spec being melee wasn't the reason it is unpopular, when really it is a major aspect.

Maybe they will make it a healing spec this expansion

Besides the fact I would personally not mind that at all (thing I like most after hunter dps is healing, so that would solve things for me); it would actually make more sense than a full melee spec.

SV being melee added nothing to this game. You're hardly turning ranged hunters into melee hunters, you're not really convincing other melee to swap either. At least a healing spec would get something done for hunters. Even if it is something as simple as faster queues

I am hoping they make it a bounce spec, through talents can be melee or ranged, or a hybrid, the cd adds ranged onto the raptor strike, and i am hoping it also lets us auto from ranged, like throw spear style. the 100 talent has promise for this play style, leap out for haste harpoon in for crit.

Would be fun; reminds me a bit of those MOBA hybrids that have a similar playstyle.
I wonder if they could ever make that work well though.

From the look of it so far the 100 talent seems to hint they are playing with that thought, but there is little else that really shows that option.
So far the ranged options mostly seem short duration for when you need to get out of melee to avoid mechanics or something.

[Lazuli]

They should just admit defeat and reroll the spec to SoO-gameplay.

And outlaw too pls pls pls pls pls

[Deleted]

Jesus christ, they are not making survival a ranged spec - is UH DK a ranged spec now?

Surv will have 1 melee attack. Unholy have... festering, scourge, death, necrotic, soul reaper. 5 vs 1. Good comparison there :'3

- - - Updated - - -

The answer is survival is a hybrid spec and it will continue to be so just more ranged dot focus with quite a few optional RANGE talents (throw axe, volatile mixture procc, a murder of crows, arctic bola and chakrams) during BfA.

- - - Updated - - -

Not to mention your 1 melee ability becomes ranged during burst phase (20+) seconds

I look forward to try it out.

[Jaja]

They butchered Survival when they took it away from being a ranged spec.

[rustyboy]

Yep, making survival melee just to satisfy a small minority. Art impersonating life? Survival not only has to compete with Hunters who prefer a ranged dps playstyle, but it also has to compete with other melee classes who are clearly better and in most cases more enjoyable to play. Maybe blizzard will decide one of the melee classes need a ranged spec, because they find creating 3 different play styles for a dps only class outside of Fire, Frost, Arcane too difficult.

I just hope they don't make survival a dominant spec to satisfy some Blizzard employee's fantasy for weekend role play.

[Kikazz]

Considering it's a complete and total step backwards from what we have. I'd say the Alpha is not doing it's job.

omg all the whining,

Dude its the first build of alpha, they usually go through several, they never, i mean NEVER release a classes full spec till like 3-4 builds in so they can test how shit works, why add 50 things in to find a bug and then have to try and single out one of the 50 things that may have caused the bugs, when u can add in 3-4 things at a time and see if they bug before adding more.

[tru]

I don’t think you know what the job of the Alpha is.

Because legions alpha/beta did so much to fix the hunter and ww issues ( and im sure plenty of other specs ) well before it went live right?

[DeathOfRa]

While I personally enjoy the current iteration of Survival (I prefer melee to ranged), I'm beyond aghast they still haven't realized either roll the spec into another class that's missing a spec (*cough*DemonHunters*cough*), or make it a fourth spec for Hunters.
Also I feel like how they're taking Survival now will please just about no one.

[zlygork]

I am really hopeful for the primal instincts gameplay, I like the idea of having "two rotations" similarly to demo back in the day.

[TankJr]

"Survival Hunter is one of the specs that is getting significant reworks in Battle for Azeroth. It is an example of where spec fantasy was put before class fantasy. Suddenly you hit Level 110 and forgot how to use a bow" from Battle for Azeroth Developer Q&A today... thats encouraging.

[Bepples]

"Survival Hunter is one of the specs that is getting significant reworks in Battle for Azeroth. It is an example of where spec fantasy was put before class fantasy. Suddenly you hit Level 110 and forgot how to use a bow" from Battle for Azeroth Developer Q&A today... thats encouraging.

Pretty much confirms my initial thoughts of the BFA Survival changes: Blizzard recognises that Survival's biggest issue is its weak connection to the core Hunter identity. I still think the compromise is weak and won't work.

I feel like we will reach a 1.7 situation again where you have a failed hybrid spec and Blizzard will have to decide whether Survival doubles down on the melee aspect or embraces the ranged aspect completely. History repeating itself.