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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by elfporn View Post
    Yep. What do you think an execute is? I mean, you could continue pressing x for a more boring experience if you want. Or you could petition to get hemo back. They could, of course, be more creative, but they have the ability already coded and built, so it’s easy to implement.

    It also fits nicely into the rotation, it’s an additional button to press, and a proc to watch for. It could be more synergistic with other facets of the spec, but that might be expecting too much from the design team right now.

    Of course, you could just come across all ignorant and just yell “but it’s just 1+1=2”. Yes, it’s a button you press instead of another button at a specific point in an encounter; so fucking what, atleast it’s not so useless that no one ever chooses it as a talent ever.
    To be fair, for me, Dispatch was just an annoyance. Literally the same thing (CP generator) that required another easily spammable keybind (similar to what you'd put Muti on), that was only used for like 2/5th of a fight. I was happy when it was removed. Make it do something different, keep the original procc of it or whatever sure, but a button that replaces another for a small % of the fight is just annoying.

    Same thing when Ambush/Backstab (via Dance), and even Ravage/Shred for Druids was a thing. All my precious macro space eaten up with stance/stealth macros just to merge abilities that should have been in the first place.

  2. #42
    Field Marshal OyesOyess's Avatar
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    Im pretty excited with most of the ass changes although few they seem pretty good. I really hope dispatch is the go to as I think execute phases are always so cool because it feels like its go time when you get there.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by ymirsson View Post
    Isn't that exactly what a rotation or priority implies? pressing a different button for different circumstances? Dispatch is more exciting then HfB.
    but it really isnt like that.

    you just keep spamming one button instead of another after a special cutoff.
    they have the exact same role. it doesnt do anything differently than mutilate, it's just a stronger version of it after the target is 35%

    dispatch is literally button bloat(thought we're trying to avoid that?). if they given us the legendary bracer effect instead it wouldve been much MUCH more elegant solution.

    ofc the fact that it procs from mutilate, gives it some rotational uses, but when the target is under 35% it's just mutilate 2.0

    or make it more interesting, like the warrior execute, I dont know, each dispatch cast reduces to cost of your next mutilate by 10 or something and it stacks to 50 so every 5 dispatch you get a free mutilate

    bam interesting rotation AND execute.
    Last edited by shaunika123; 2018-01-27 at 05:02 PM.

  4. #44
    Field Marshal OyesOyess's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shaunika123 View Post
    but it really isnt like that.


    or make it more interesting, like the warrior execute, I dont know, each dispatch cast reduces to cost of your next mutilate by 10 or something and it stacks to 50 so every 5 dispatch you get a free mutilate

    bam interesting rotation AND execute.
    That actually sounds pretty cool, maybe like every 2-3 dispatch puts a stack increasing mutilates damage by a set percent and reducing the energy required for it by an x amount as well. Would consistently give Sin an extra button that isn't just a CD.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by shaunika123 View Post
    but it really isnt like that.

    you just keep spamming one button instead of another after a special cutoff.
    they have the exact same role. it doesnt do anything differently than mutilate, it's just a stronger version of it after the target is 35%

    dispatch is literally button bloat(thought we're trying to avoid that?). if they given us the legendary bracer effect instead it wouldve been much MUCH more elegant solution.

    ofc the fact that it procs from mutilate, gives it some rotational uses, but when the target is under 35% it's just mutilate 2.0

    or make it more interesting, like the warrior execute, I dont know, each dispatch cast reduces to cost of your next mutilate by 10 or something and it stacks to 50 so every 5 dispatch you get a free mutilate

    bam interesting rotation AND execute.
    The thing missing from the rotations for all the specs is compelling synergy between abilities like the execute example above.

    I like the idea of dispatch as an execute(and yes i had forgotten that the hfc set bonus made it amazing). I like having an execute as an assassination rogue - and dispatch imo, should be reintegrated baseline, and given synergy to tie it deeper into the rotation.

    We're also missing possible extra context for all this stuff - we still havn't seen azerite armor at all and have no idea the effects those will grant

  6. #46
    It blows my mind that Blizz still thinks RnG Poison Bomb is a good idea...

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Varolyn View Post
    Assassination essentially gets the original Venom Rush baseline and not only that an improved version of it. Venomous Wounds refunds 12 energy per bleed baseline in BFA. Not only that, mut will also cost 5 less energy. Combine that with Sin mastery affecting bleeds now, and the changes for the spec look really promising.
    Yeah but the BFA version of Venom Rush is too good to pass up still. I think Blizz misses a big point how putting anything that offers or refunds energy versus anything else isn't a compelling choice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by elfporn View Post
    The thing missing from the rotations for all the specs is compelling synergy between abilities like the execute example above.

    I like the idea of dispatch as an execute(and yes i had forgotten that the hfc set bonus made it amazing). I like having an execute as an assassination rogue - and dispatch imo, should be reintegrated baseline, and given synergy to tie it deeper into the rotation.

    We're also missing possible extra context for all this stuff - we still havn't seen azerite armor at all and have no idea the effects those will grant
    I am fine with Dispatch as an execute, because lets face it a proc that is used right like Dispatch will always beat out procs that are not thought out that well (eg Blunderbuss).

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Mafic View Post
    Yeah but the BFA version of Venom Rush is too good to pass up still. I think Blizz misses a big point how putting anything that offers or refunds energy versus anything else isn't a compelling choice.

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    I am fine with Dispatch as an execute, because lets face it a proc that is used right like Dispatch will always beat out procs that are not thought out that well (eg Blunderbuss).
    You may be right to be concerned about the new venom rush being too strong, especially if they make it work with dispatch. But we will see, it's still early and no one has even played alpha yet. There are issues with the assassination tree right now, for example Master poisoner is pretty much a dead talent with the mastery change.

    IDK why so many people are talking crap on dispatch. Is it the most innovative thing ever? Not really, but it was really useful in MoP especially on Garrosh. I know some people will say button bloat, but to me assassination had an execute since cata (when it used backstab) and dispatch was far more "iconic" than shoe-horning garrote into the main rotation which made little since especially considering what garroting someone is suppose to be.

  9. #49
    Deleted
    I was afraid that while talking about "class fantasy" (or whatever "key selling term" they devised for the upcoming expansion) they are going to water away class defining ability of the rouge class. Stuff that was alright for 10 years needs to be taken away.

    And you guys spend time talking whether dispatch is better than toxic blade or some other nonsense. As if it matters, feint on 15 sec CD and nerfed 20%, why not play Warrior at this point, at least you know you'll have top 3 spot across all tiers of BofA.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by trajandreps View Post
    I was afraid that while talking about "class fantasy" (or whatever "key selling term" they devised for the upcoming expansion) they are going to water away class defining ability of the rouge class. Stuff that was alright for 10 years needs to be taken away.

    And you guys spend time talking whether dispatch is better than toxic blade or some other nonsense. As if it matters, feint on 15 sec CD and nerfed 20%, why not play Warrior at this point, at least you know you'll have top 3 spot across all tiers of BofA.
    feint is only nerfed by 10%

    and tbh it's a fine nerf
    when do you ever feint more than once every 15 seconds really?
    ofc i think they should remove the energy cost or reduce it now that they nerfed it.

    the cloak nerf is much MUCH worse than the feint nerf.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by trajandreps View Post
    I was afraid that while talking about "class fantasy" (or whatever "key selling term" they devised for the upcoming expansion) they are going to water away class defining ability of the rouge class. Stuff that was alright for 10 years needs to be taken away.

    And you guys spend time talking whether dispatch is better than toxic blade or some other nonsense. As if it matters, feint on 15 sec CD and nerfed 20%, why not play Warrior at this point, at least you know you'll have top 3 spot across all tiers of BofA.
    The problem is the current Blizz devs don't understand why Rogues should have top tier DPS and the ability to soak.

    I agree the opportunity cost for the new proposed Feint is too high. If they are going to force a CD AND energy cost then it needs to be substantially stronger or lower the energy cost and leave the CD.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shaunika123 View Post
    feint is only nerfed by 10%

    and tbh it's a fine nerf
    when do you ever feint more than once every 15 seconds really?
    ofc i think they should remove the energy cost or reduce it now that they nerfed it.

    the cloak nerf is much MUCH worse than the feint nerf.
    Agreed on Feint needing the energy cost lowered.

    The nerf to Cloak is not warranted when they have nerfed the duration many times, so that doesn't make sense. If I remember correctly the last time CloS was a 2 min CD cloak had a longer duration.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Varolyn View Post
    You may be right to be concerned about the new venom rush being too strong, especially if they make it work with dispatch. But we will see, it's still early and no one has even played alpha yet. There are issues with the assassination tree right now, for example Master poisoner is pretty much a dead talent with the mastery change.

    IDK why so many people are talking crap on dispatch. Is it the most innovative thing ever? Not really, but it was really useful in MoP especially on Garrosh. I know some people will say button bloat, but to me assassination had an execute since cata (when it used backstab) and dispatch was far more "iconic" than shoe-horning garrote into the main rotation which made little since especially considering what garroting someone is suppose to be.
    Dispatch is a play style preference which is why along with Poison Bomb they are talent choices. I will say one thing in favor of the Assassination BFA talent tree and that is the talent tree is slowly improving to be on par with Subtlety. I can't say the same for Outlaw talent tree though. Outlaw talent tree still has harsh opportunities costs. And example of harsh opportunities costs is having to give up MFD to choose SND or Loaded Dice. And I do not see how RTB builds will function without Loaded Dice.

    Also, Alacrity competing against CBB and Kspree is still something that baffles me but at least makes more sense than the level 100 talent tier. It makes more sense because you have a passive that is activated by finishers versus active use CDs. But the fact that Kspree, CBB or Alacrity are not baseline yet seems puzzling to me.

    Plus, factor in the Blade Flurry change with a charge system and Outlaw is looking very clunky right now. The reduction in energy cost to Saber Slash is probably the only positive I can say about Outlaw in BFA right now on paper. The change to Grappling Hook baseline is also a big help to those that like Acrobatic Strikes. Acrobatic Strikes is actually a fun talent so being able to have access to Grappling Hook while still having Acrobatic Strike is a mini victory in that respect. However, it still doesn't make Hit and Run a strong talent choices. Maybe the 1 sec per CB cool down reduction may change my view on Hit and Run. But right now Hit and Run is the weakest link still as a talent in the Outlaw tree.

    Generally speaking, they are going to have to re-examine Anticipation as it needs help to be a competitive talent choice for all Rogue specs.
    Last edited by Mafic; 2018-01-28 at 12:27 AM.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Djanco View Post
    i honestly expected we'd lose cloak to being on the talent row with cheat and elusiveness. it could have been worse.
    Please dont throw those kind of ideas into the wind. Blizz would totally do that.

  13. #53
    for sub, did anything really change besides some talent changes?

    can we expect sweeping changes, or just a miserable alpha/beta experience like the previous 2 betas?

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by zaino View Post
    for sub, did anything really change besides some talent changes?

    can we expect sweeping changes, or just a miserable alpha/beta experience like the previous 2 betas?
    we've got a stronger cooldown, and we're getting find weakness back, is that not enough?
    does anything major really need to change? the current state of sub is pretty good.

  15. #55
    It doesn't really have any impact on how the spec plays, but as a sub rogue I'm really gonna miss Catlike Reflexes from the artifact. You can't just allow me to not take fall damage an entire expansion and send me into the next one still thinking I'm invincible.

  16. #56
    The Insane Feali's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shaunika123 View Post
    we've got a stronger cooldown, and we're getting find weakness back, is that not enough?
    does anything major really need to change? the current state of sub is pretty good.
    Obligatory "Backstab doing full dmg from in front" mention.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Feali View Post
    Obligatory "Backstab doing full dmg from in front" mention.
    honestly at this point i'd rather them just make gloomblade baseline

    would be so much better

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by shaunika123 View Post
    honestly at this point i'd rather them just make gloomblade baseline

    would be so much better
    Yes please. Also fits the new shadowey theme more.

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    By the way: is Hemo just gone with BfA? Would be weird to not have one of the most iconic abilities.

  19. #59
    Gloomblade should definitely be baseline at this point... Especially if it is on the same row as Find Weakness which will be the go to talent 99.8% of the time.

    I swear, if blizz refuses to do this and says that the positional requirement for backstab is too "iconic" I will throw my mouse right threw my monitor.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by shaunika123 View Post
    honestly at this point i'd rather them just make gloomblade baseline

    would be so much better
    I love gloomblade. Why this hasn't happened yet baffles me.

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