well the undead ones still exist in the region and are maintaining a functioning society... some people are sitting here saying that the people who fled over a decade back have the right to come back and push a group out of their homes because they (the live ones) lived their before it went to shit.
Ah, another clairvoyant Alliance genius.
Given how most people complained about it on grounds of political correctness and not faction affiliation, yup, that's totally what happened.
First of all, you pulled the part about annihilation out of your ass. Hell, even the Alliance is a falsification. The book preview talked about Stormwind specifically. Secondly, given how your kind flailed in the exact same manner for like a decade before the Before the Storm preview, i.e. this behavior has nothing to do with that plot development, yes, you are the fanatical lot.
First of all, repeating something you pulled out of your ass in your previous post doesn't magically make it true. Secondly, Alliance has super weapons as well. Like, I dunno, the Vindicaar.
Aside from the aforementioned fact that you pulled the basement nonsense out of your ass, yes, conquering enemy territory makes you conquerors regardless of what your justification for the conquest was. This isn't rocket science.
This idea is dogshit tier logic. Humans aren't a monolith. Humans from nation X aren't entitled to land of humans from nation Y. Especially when that nation no longer exists. And most of its former citizens are still the local population. Stormwind also has no dynastic rights to Lordaeron for what we know.
And yet from what we know so far, it's once again the Alliance that starts the fight. So taking your earlier arguments into consideration, the idea that you are poor and victimized and not conquerors because the Horde has certain weapons is simply laughable and pathetic in the light of Alliance being the aggressors.
You have yet to actually prove your claim with anything of value rather than your meaningless "those players are totally Horde because I say so", so I wouldn't climb onto the high ground under those circumstances if I were you.
This is why we need upvotes. Also, remember how scientists used Hakkar debuff event to study the human behavior? I'd say this behavior right here is a reason for them to pay attention to Warcraft again. It's bound to be a scientific goldmine.
Lemme guess, the main topic would be Sylvanas. Where all that @Friendlyimmolation does is correcting Sylvanas Victimization Squad on their unending shitbarrage of headcanon. Never mind the fact where he agrees she does evil deeds when the topic is what she has actually done and not what she has done only in the minds of certain Alliance geniuses.
I said it before a few times, but I'll say it again. The above bit is what's most idiotic about this. There's plenty of actual canon material to use against Sylvanas. So where the fuck does this inane need to create fanfiction (even when it runs contrary to lore that has been clarified by goddamn Word of God) in order to make an argument about Sylvanas doing evil things even come from?
Yeah, that's totally supported by your actual posts. Also, "cannot take any different opinion". "Cannot take any headcanon peddling in a forum dedicated to actual lore." Do try to spot the difference.
Except your "educated guesses" from the very start ran contrary to the information about BfA that we have so far. And yet when confronted with said information, including Blizzard quotes on the matter, in all your educated brilliance you double down on your educated guesses rather than reevaluating them.
Obviously it's totally not the eternally victimized crybabies that see HORDE BIAS COVFEFE everywhere (with the primary example somehow being Blizzard fixing in Cata the actually observable and countable Alliance bias of unequal zone distribution from Vanilla), straw-man people into oblivion to fuel their victim complex, feel the inane need to conjure ungodly amount of headcanon because they can't deal with the lore as it is, simply don't register lore that's inconvenient to said headcanon and who scream about TEH CIRCLEJERK boogeyman when there is more than one person pointing out the inaccuracies of their headcanon to them (or, if the topic of disagreement is Sylvanas, hurrdurr about people fapping to her).
Holy shit, an Alliance poster (even self-proclaimed biased fanboy at that) that doesn't magically become unable to comprehend the basics of international politics/laws of how alliances and land rights work? I didn't know unicorns played WoW
This isn't even what Vynestra argued. They argued that humans are entitled to formerly human territory just on the grounds of them being humans. Even though Stormwind humans have zero right to Lordaeron lands. Amani on the other hand actually owned Lordaeron in the past.
But you presenting it in this way is already you changing your story... Also, all the evidence paints exactly the opposite picture.
Yeah, you only tried to make a point out of people criticizing Sylvanas' model change and made unsupported claims about it being her rabid fans doing it. So much better.
Just lol at the part in bold. The thing in bold has been said to you and your ilk time and time again. And when you lot then cover your ears in "lalala I can't hear you" fashion, retreat back to your fanfiction and screech it out for over a decade it becomes kinda irritating.
Here we can see an Alliance genius with eternal victim complex and zero self awareness in its natural habitat of flailing around about their version of TEH CIRCLEJERK, pretending that them constantly regurgitating headcanon and some utter bullshit about Universal Values™ has nothing to do with them being corrected every time they make a post and with their fanfiction not being welcome in a lore forum.
Except Sylvanas was incorporated into the Scourge when Arthas lorded over it as king of Lordaeron that saw Scourge as his subjects that he cared for in his fucked up way, then led a civil war against him, succeeded and was accepted as a leader by the people of Lordaeron she freed from his grasp.
I cared, therefore I debated it. It's how it works.
Part of the Alliance playerbase IS bloodthirsty and it's well known ever since WotLK. Considering I'm Alliance also and I don't have ravaging cravings for "dismantle the Horde" nor "reclaim Lordaeron", it's pretty obvious the difference.
Crying for "WAR" everytime is more creepy and borderline lunatic than talking about Sylvanas's armor, just saying. And you are that keep comparing it.
Which is irrelevant to the point you made.
And Sylvanas not being from Lordaeron doesn't change the fact that the majority of Forsaken are, does it now? Also, only Koltira ended up like Koltira. So yay for more headcanon to fuel your narrative. And Koltira made an unauthorized deal with the invading enemy that cost Forsaken lives when Alliance *cough* broke the deal they made with him *cough*. I.e. he committed treason. Oh noes, Sylvanas imprisoned someone who she had the right to execute given the scope of his betrayal. What an argument you got here.
Projecting Garithos who was never her follower or Koltira who was a traitor and a singular case is a godawful argument. There are plenty of Forsaken disagreeing with Sylvanas. Even newly risen undead that refused to follow her.
This still doesn't change the fact that Forsaken are from Lordaeron and chose Sylvanas as their leader. Try harder, maybe you'll manage to make a valid counterargument against that before the heat death of the universe.
She organized them during the Civil War in the Plaguelands, often freed them personally and they willingly followed her. Here's your acceptance. And they also willingly helped her to capture Undercity by force. And how is Desolate Council evidence of Forsaken feeling any different towards Sylvanas? They ruled the city in her abscence and they disagree with her on one thing. Forsaken were never a monolith, they disagree with Sylvanas on things.
Also, you pulled their numbers being "many" out of your ass. The preview only said that many on the council disagree with her. Given how we don't know how numerous it is and how it's extremely unlikely it's large (because efficiency is a thing), that does not support the claim that many Forsaken disagree with her.
I'm starting to think heat death of the universe is way too optimistic a deadline for you.
Nothing in the book preview supports this whatsoever. There has been no mention of anyone other than the Desolate Council (not all of it even) expressing such sentiment, so there couldn't have been any mention of them gathering support for this sentiment. There was no mention of them publicly doing anything at all in terms of what you talk about. Hell, the preview didn't even say they actually completely disagree, Nathanos clarified that the Council (again, not all of it) holds reservation about it. You're once again engaged in headcanon crafting.
You have a premise of a faction with historically weaker navy performing a successful naval invasion right in front of enemy capital and not only not getting sank before they land, not only not getting slaughtered during the landing, but successfully besieging said enemy capital (when the Horde was prepared for it and other races were already in the region, their superior fleet included becasue they had to get there somehow) and you really need to ask that question?
Yay for more headcanon crafting and projecting Garithos onto everyone. There were plenty other surviving humans that didn't want her as the leader and whom she didn't kill before ascending to throne (and even in the cases of people whom she killed afterwards it's been people that started shit with the Forsaken or the Horde). But they were the minority, so go figure.
Except your proof of tyrannical methods was her removing everyone who doesn't want her, which as per above, is a fucking lie. And you talk about mindbends. Also, in regards to those who she did kill, she was supported in it by her people. Who whether you like it or not, outnumbered any remaining living Lordaeronians. Also, you claiming your cherry-picking lore butchering to be a valid point doesn't make it a valid point. And the idea that Friendly invalidating your bullshit is him recognizing your bullshit to be true is devoid of logic.
Given how this is still incorrect due to your dishonest cherry-picking, yay for another inane comparison from you! What happens if you don't make one every third post? I'm curious.
Also, even if there were no other remaining living Lordaeronians than Garithos' group, the Forsaken still outnumbereded them. The majority supported Sylvanas regardless of whether or not she would have killed Garithos and his men. And they supported killing Garithos and his men too.
He has zero claim since it was a monarchy and he's not of royal blood. Sylvanas led a civil war against Arthas after she was forcible made into his subject and after it was successful forged her own state from the ashes of Menethil's Lordaeron through right of conquest (with popular support backing her legitimacy). So yeah, he has much less of a claim.
How on earth did you get not caring about the outcome of the argument from what @Friendlyimmolation said there? He only said he cares about his posts being of value to other people in PSA manner (which is an outcome), because you lot will stay in your headcanon safe space bubble no matter what.
Except you didn't concede you were wrong and all you said here is a lie to paint yourself in better light. When first (few times, that is) faced with what Blizzard said and showed, you just doubled down on your speculation being true. I mean, given your penchant for fanfiction I realize you may think it's possible to bend reality to fit what would be convenient for you, but it really isn't.
Arathi is the worst zone in the game to make landfall with ships. The only sea landing area is in the pirate cove that's littered with shipwrecks because of the reefs nearby, and the only path to the mainland from there is through a narrow pathl (that IIRC goes through a cave for a while). Other than that it's a cliff bonanza.
Since when were Garithos and his men the residents of the city? Arthas slaughtered the residents of the city when he came back from Northrend. They weren't the residents even afterwards because the moments before they were killed the city was captured from Dreadlords' forces.
Holy fucking shit this is beyond sad. So Friendly says that not everyone on the Council disagrees with her and you think a quote saying that many on the Desolate council disagree with her proves him wrong? Do you even know how words work? And this very quote runs contrary to your "correction" here. Them having deep reservation is not the same as them not wanting it. Also, do notice how it says squat about other Forsaken or the Council gathering political support for this idea.
Yeah, totally what he said
And in what language is "residents" the same as "people who helped liberate it"? Are Blood Elves, High Elves, Night Elves and the Kirin Tor residents of Suramar now?
Yup, done by Sylvanas fer sure. Because after Arthas resurrected Sylvanas, she moved back in time and was used by Arthas to raze Lordaeron, which he did before he went to Quel'thalas.