8.0 Warlock changes from Beta

[Maleific]

Sigh. No, it should be reduced to a bit more of a sane level, but gutted it just stupid and counter productive. Warlocks have always been about being tanky and draining and a much more survivable class. It what drew me to warlocks in vanilla and has kept me raiding for nearly 14 years. I don't want to be as mobile as a mage. I want to be slow, but hard to kill.

And you think warlocks aren't tanky without over the top DS healing? Soul Leech and demon skin/ Dark pact are options. With those alone you're tankier than basically every dps spec, minus immunity cheesing.

[Deleted]

With respect to the loss of self heal by using shadow bolt over drain soul. Remember that right now drain soul damage is not that important to your overall dps with it being around 10-15% of your damage, I expect the same to be true for shadowbolt in bfa, maybe upped a bit to 15-20%. Unlike destruction and demonology, affliction's filler (shadowbolt) doesn't generate any resources so compared to those specs channeling drain life over shadowbolt isn't going to be nearly as large a dps loss.

I suspect it's likely that you could completely replace shadowbolt with drain life and still do 90% of optimum dps. Obviously you wouldn't do this for a whole fight but choosing to channel drain life for some short bursts of incoming damage to avoid having to move or simply to help out your healers might be an optimal choice which could be quite interesting.

[Cainium]

Aff selfheal is too strong, there's no doubt about that.

Wrong.

Shadowbolt being Aff's filler again is a good thing, having no direkt hit spell sucks, period. (especially with tremor totem coming back)

Oh yeah, casting 2.5 seconds to kill a totem which has its job already done by that time will be super good, espacially with meele train you.... not.

Nightfall was good damn fun to play, you'll see when you have more than one target to dot and while on the move (since we will no longe tap)

What the hell is good about a totally random instant proc? It adds no gameplay, has no micro managment like MG, nor is it a noticable DPS increase. It's just plain crap making a player hit his SB button slightly faster.

[Count Zero]

From what I can tell, the main proponents of Shadow Bolt are people who like to spam their filler key. If there's something else I'm earnestly not seeing it.

[Walrock]

Wrong.

Nice argument.

Oh yeah, casting 2.5 seconds to kill a totem which has its job already done by that time will be super good, espacially with meele train you.... not.

It's more about firing your Nightfall proc into it if your pet is not in range, of which you are used to be spammed with if you got your Corr rolling on 3 targets in arena.

What the hell is good about a totally random instant proc? It adds no gameplay, has no micro managment like MG, nor is it a noticable DPS increase. It's just plain crap making a player hit his SB button slightly faster.

What the hell is good about a channeled filler? It adds no gameplay, has no micro managment like Haunt, nor is it a noticable DPS increase. It's just plain crap making a player hit his drain button once every 4s and then falling asleep.

Overall, very good arguments and stuff, I'll give you 1 out of angry.

[Mashnakh]

I like to hard cast, so I am happy with that change. Still I think warlock is not tanky enough, in the beginning of Legion I played Unholy Death Knight and it was hard to kill a Warlock regardless the Spec. Soul link should be baseline for all warlocks, because warlocks fight with pets or sac them. Then dark pact baseline that was the moment warlock felt tanky.

Warlocks should be really hard to kill except destruction! This spec should have less selfheal. But more dmg then affliction and demo. Like soul fire should be weaker than CB and bring back backlash for SF instant. CB CD 15 sec but Ton of dmg.

This is only PvP!

[Cainium]

Nice argument.

What let us stand in shit are our shields, not the self healing. The only thing our selfheal does is not punishing our healers for our laziness and life tap. At ticking damage our shields build up fast enough to mitigate the damage taken, and the only edge are fights with very high ticking damage like medivh or xavius on tyrannical 18+ onwards.

In all other szenarios it's just a little bonus for us allowing us to be super lazy. The real usful stuff comes from the shields, and doesnt even allow us to soak oneshots like mage, rogue and hunters can do.

As a "raid utility" its worthless.

It's more about firing your Nightfall proc into it if your pet is not in range, of which you are used to be spammed with if you got your Corr rolling on 3 targets in arena.

Use haunt for that. Holding of the proc is a damage loss, espcially if Corr runs on 3 targets. I don't know how people come to the conclusion that holding the nightfall proc for anything is any good or useful in any situation. IT'S A RANDOM PROC, the chances that one doesn't have it in any situation described here (movement, totems) is a lot higher than having it.

Something like fel flame, which is a RELIABLE direct damage instant cast, would be a really good decision to bring back. Not this piece of random crap.

What the hell is good about a channeled filler? It adds no gameplay, has no micro managment like Haunt, nor is it a noticable DPS increase. It's just plain crap making a player hit his drain button once every 4s and then falling asleep.

That is pretty dumb. You know what MG is, right? It adds gameplay (drain cycles), requires micro management (shadow bolt/haunt do not, they are just maintenance buffs, drain cycles require correct setup of dot times, mana, soul shards, souls and boss mechanics), and due to the acceleration mechanic it is one of our main sources of damage.

If you just hit drain soul and "fall asleep" for 4s you most of the time do something wrong, 'cause in reality thats the time where you monitor your dot timers and boss count downs to plan your next drain cycles ahead.

If i just think about playing bosses like Varimathras (or the first boss on mythics, fel hounds on mythic, or ANY mythic boss) with SB, where almost any movement mechanic is plain random, it is just a nightmare.

For the DPS: Play a ST boss, spec MG, and don't drain a single time. If you think that DPS loss is not "noticable" than you don't know what you are talking about.

[Deleted]

Current affliction model is very unhealthy for the class and game as a whole, for several reasons:

1.) Spec excels at virtually every type of boss fights. Occasional cleave (priority adds)? Check. Tons of adds? Check. High mobility fights? Check. Pure single target fights? The only type of fight where affli is somewhat mediocre - but still quite playable? Fights that strain healers a lot and where people have to use Prydaz as mandatory - affli warlocks don't even need to be healed.

2.) Procs and some RNG in class design are fun. Affli has none of that. Unless you are on a council fight you can play with one hand and still get great numbers.

3.) Current spec mechanics are gimmicky - the fact they left Soulflame, Wrath of Consumption and even Reap Souls while removing periodic souls that used to spawn from your weapon that you could kill to activate those abilities, just goes to show how little tough they put in to affliction design. This results in affliction one shooting almost all small adds with passive damage and excelling at everything with adds, while at the same time suffering on boss fights with no adds (which are rare in Legion)

4.) Removal of the (horrendous) Soul Effigy left a power vacuum in the spec. As much as we'd hate to admit it, Soul Effigy made (current) affliction very balanced. Spec was useful in both single target and council/aoe types of fights. With the Effigy gone, Blizzard could have done 2 things (without completely changing they way affliction functions in the middle of the expansion). First, they could have just remove it and leave affliction un-buffed. This would have made the spec virtually useless on any fight that isn't pure add fight (Eonar) or 3-council fight (non-existent in Legion) - and in turn make affliction the only pure DPS class that wouldn't have a single spec in top 5 DPS specs. The other thing they could have done (and did) is to buff affliction to be playable on single target fights. In process of doing that, the spec is extremely OP on every boss fight that isn't pure single target, non movement, non-add fight (which is again - very rare in Legion).

TLDR - The current design of the spec makes it incredibly hard to balance. It can either be extremely OP or extremely useless. This is unhealthy for the spec, class and raid environment as whole. Incoming BfA changes -as they currently are - will make spec much easier to balance and much more fun to play.

Wow... do you even play afflock?

Priority adds: I would definitely not call it "excel" what we are doing there. Bats at Hazabel, Adds at Kingaroth, Adds at Varimatras mythic, heck, even the priority adds in the Eonar crapfest, afflocks share the bottom together with Marksman hunters.

Tons of adds: Well, we see high numbers there, but they are 90% cheese because soul flame creates massive amounts of overkill

High mobility: Yes we can compete on this, but are comparable with other ranged classes

Single Target: With the current spec, single target is OK for the afflock. Won't top the meters, but that's OK

No Procs or especially RNG? Are you kidding me? This is what leads me to believe that you haven't played your lock probably at all during Legion (at least not as affliction)

The only point i agree with you is that they dropped the ball on this whole souls thing in the beginning of Legion and then never really got around to fixing it. But that you probably have just picked up in the massive amount of rants on some forum, and not experienced yourself.

To make this constructive:
Yes, self-heal is too much, but be prepared to face the typical Blizzard reaction: Nerf unreasonably while forgetting that we actually NEED more heal because we are a) less mobile and b) sacrifice life for e.g., Life tap and Rush.

[JustaWarlock]

Show me a single RNG proc (not counting shards) for affliction.

Show me a single RNG proc for affliction, except don't mention the biggest RNG proc affliction has because it makes my argument look bad?

I don't even....

[Mashnakh]

Class design and class fantasy works together. When you keep it like you said it. Best example Warlock and tankiness, except demo I don't see tanky warlocks. Affliction has good selfheal no more.

[Walrock]

What let us stand in shit are our shields, not the self healing. The only thing our selfheal does is not punishing our healers for our laziness and life tap. At ticking damage our shields build up fast enough to mitigate the damage taken, and the only edge are fights with very high ticking damage like medivh or xavius on tyrannical 18+ onwards.

In all other szenarios it's just a little bonus for us allowing us to be super lazy. The real usful stuff comes from the shields, and doesnt even allow us to soak oneshots like mage, rogue and hunters can do.

As a "raid utility" its worthless.

There are many encounters, not only in M+,where there are large aoe hits on the whole grp/raid. The fact that Aff can heal pretty much from 5-100% in 3-4s with his filler is just to strong.
And since Blizz is "trying" to balance open world pvp, because there are going to be some important horde vs ally areas, it needs to be tuned down.
Being fully healed in seconds while doing DPS is just insanely strong, too strong.
I really like the selfheal myself but I don't let it cloud my judegment.

Use haunt for that. Holding of the proc is a damage loss, espcially if Corr runs on 3 targets. I don't know how people come to the conclusion that holding the nightfall proc for anything is any good or useful in any situation. IT'S A RANDOM PROC, the chances that one doesn't have it in any situation described here (movement, totems) is a lot higher than having it.

Something like fel flame, which is a RELIABLE direct damage instant cast, would be a really good decision to bring back. Not this piece of random crap.

That makes no sense. Nobody is going to skill Haunt to use it as a totem killer, it would always be on cd since you would want to use it as a nuke.
And you are not holding back the Nightfall proc, since you get them so often with Corr on 3 targets, you just fire them away and very very likely get one when the tremor totem is up.
I agree that Fel Flame is a much better solution to this problem, but thats not in the cards we are dealt with.

That is pretty dumb. You know what MG is, right? It adds gameplay (drain cycles), requires micro management (shadow bolt/haunt do not, they are just maintenance buffs, drain cycles require correct setup of dot times, mana, soul shards, souls and boss mechanics), and due to the acceleration mechanic it is one of our main sources of damage.

If you just hit drain soul and "fall asleep" for 4s you most of the time do something wrong, 'cause in reality thats the time where you monitor your dot timers and boss count downs to plan your next drain cycles ahead.

If i just think about playing bosses like Varimathras (or the first boss on mythics, fel hounds on mythic, or ANY mythic boss) with SB, where almost any movement mechanic is plain random, it is just a nightmare.

For the DPS: Play a ST boss, spec MG, and don't drain a single time. If you think that DPS loss is not "noticable" than you don't know what you are talking about.

The Haunt window is pretty much the same as the drain cycle, it requires managment of resourcess and dots in a certain time window.
You are making it sound wayyy more complicated than it actually is.
You apply your dots, cast 2x UA, reap and drain away, and then you pretty much get a time window of 10s where you do nothing but draining before you need to refresh you Corr thats about to fall off.

And how is movement going to be worse with SB?
You know you'll get Shadow Embrace which pretty much applies the MG debuff to the target and which doesn't go away when you move?
I would call that a upgrade if movement is your argument.
(Ofc there will be the old downsides like SB travel time and keeping up the three stacks)

I agree that DS is the more comfortable one out of the two, and I personally would like to have the <25% execute DS back, so we do SB from 100-25% and then just drain the target to death.

But overall personal preference plays a role too, there are people who like DS and there are people who like SB.
Drain is overall easier to manage and more comfortable to use, since you are not spamming your filler key.
SB brings more variety to the table and increases your clicks per minute (which is a good or a bad thing, that depends on the viewer)

[Tabrotar]

Nice argument.



It's more about firing your Nightfall proc into it if your pet is not in range, of which you are used to be spammed with if you got your Corr rolling on 3 targets in arena.



What the hell is good about a channeled filler? It adds no gameplay, has no micro managment like Haunt, nor is it a noticable DPS increase. It's just plain crap making a player hit his drain button once every 4s and then falling asleep.

Overall, very good arguments and stuff, I'll give you 1 out of angry.

Hm may but just maybe because i still get ANY damage out of it even if i had ti chancel it before the full duration?

Instead if fucking nothing if i have to chancel fucking usless shadowbolt?

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There are many encounters, not only in M+,where there are large aoe hits on the whole grp/raid. The fact that Aff can heal pretty much from 5-100% in 3-4s with his filler is just to strong.
And since Blizz is "trying" to balance open world pvp, because there are going to be some important horde vs ally areas, it needs to be tuned down.
Being fully healed in seconds while doing DPS is just insanely strong, too strong.
I really like the selfheal myself but I don't let it cloud my judegment.



That makes no sense. Nobody is going to skill Haunt to use it as a totem killer, it would always be on cd since you would want to use it as a nuke.
And you are not holding back the Nightfall proc, since you get them so often with Corr on 3 targets, you just fire them away and very very likely get one when the tremor totem is up.
I agree that Fel Flame is a much better solution to this problem, but thats not in the cards we are dealt with.




The Haunt window is pretty much the same as the drain cycle, it requires managment of resourcess and dots in a certain time window.
You are making it sound wayyy more complicated than it actually is.
You apply your dots, cast 2x UA, reap and drain away, and then you pretty much get a time window of 10s where you do nothing but draining before you need to refresh you Corr thats about to fall off.

And how is movement going to be worse with SB?
You know you'll get Shadow Embrace which pretty much applies the MG debuff to the target and which doesn't go away when you move?
I would call that a upgrade if movement is your argument.
(Ofc there will be the old downsides like SB travel time and keeping up the three stacks)

I agree that DS is the more comfortable one out of the two, and I personally would like to have the <25% execute DS back, so we do SB from 100-25% and then just drain the target to death.

But overall personal preference plays a role too, there are people who like DS and there are people who like SB.
Drain is overall easier to manage and more comfortable to use, since you are not spamming your filler key.
SB brings more variety to the table and increases your clicks per minute (which is a good or a bad thing, that depends on the viewer)

Oh you mean that nice OPTIONAL/I HAVE TO TOGGLE IT ON world PVP hm?

Yeah right it´s totally because of that...

[Deleted]

That's not on the table. If you don't pay attention to other classes, you might have missed how they removed nearly all the executes from the game. Warriors and Shadow Priests still have them, and that's pretty much it. Everyone else lost them.

Ummm, you may want to look at the 90 row on the affliction tree, we kept DE so far and assas rogues are supposed to be getting an execute as well.

Deathbolt seems to be utterly stronk, Either Writhe in Agony or Absolute corruption, Soul Harvest, Torn between GoSac and Nightfall.. However I do think that one is for taste. Last one is Siphon Life.. atleast for that build.

Rotation might be: Agony > Corruption > Siphon Life, 10stacks of Agony: Cast Deathbolt.. SB as a filler meanwhile.

Deathbolt seems pretty much to allow a more build and burst playstyle to take advantage of procs, i.e hover around 4 shards wait for a trinket proc like norgannons refresh your dots to max duration dump all your UA's then deathbolt and as long as it hits before the proc drops you maximise its damage.

Can see that build running WiA but maybe even PS over SH depending on how it interacts due to it being available for every other deathbolt. Nightfall for ST and to stabilise your dps during build phases and DE for add fights or guaranteed long executes, GoSac is too early to say (most likely they will continue to kick us in the dick over this talent i.e sure you can be petless as long as you're ok with being shit) SC or SL will work well with this build, i would lean towards SL but that will depend on the proc lengths i.e if procs are only say 12s you will be pushing it with the amount of globals you need to redot and fully dump your UA's and have enough time left on the proc for deathbolt to land.

There would also probably be a breakpoint where it just becomes more efficient to cast your deathbolt even though you could cast more UA's for instance because of the time taken ticks are happening so dropping the damage of deathbolt, but thats for the math wizards to have a look at and calc the optimal use but i would hazard a guess i your playing PS and SL that would be 3 UA's.

Seems like a fun playstyle IMO, tho there is one issue i see with deathbolt, it kind flys in the face of what they said in the watercooler about each spec being focused more about what they are good at, which for affliction is sustained dot damage, so having a burst talent like deathbolt doesn't really make sense.

Also, probs been mentioned but i just noticed that all the filler spells for destro, immolate, incinerate are now instant along with conflag. More evidence, i'm hoping, that destro really is going to be about long cast massive nukes like it should be but not fucked by movement by the builders being hard cast as well.

Too early for the hype train?

[Xeranath]

Also, probs been mentioned but i just noticed that all the filler spells for destro, immolate, incinerate are now instant along with conflag. More evidence, i'm hoping, that destro really is going to be about long cast massive nukes like it should be but not fucked by movement by the builders being hard cast as well.

Too early for the hype train?

Immolate Burns the enemy, causing [*133.2% [*40% of Spell Power*] Fire damage immediately and an additional [*72.15% [*25% of Spell Power*] Fire damage over until cancelled. Periodic damage generates 1 Soul Shard Fragment and has a 50% chance to generate an additional 1 on critical strikes. Warlock - Destruction Spec. 6% 1.5% of Base Mana. 40 yd range. 1.5 sec cast.
Incinerate Draws fire toward the enemy, dealing [*233.1% [*58.28% of Spell Power*] Fire damage. Generates 2 Soul Shard Fragments and an additional 1 on critical strikes. Warlock - Destruction Spec. 5% 2% of Base Mana. 40 yd range. 2 sec cast.

From first page... Am I missing something? Would strong doubt Destro would have so many instants.

[evertonbelmontt]

I disagree, aff's healing is ludicrous. and not every nerf needs compensation. Soul Leech w/ demon skin and UR make us already very durable. Drain Soul on top of that is over the top imo.

Soul Leech is also getting nerfed, and DR is a joke of a defensive. 40% on a 3 minute CD is only enough now because we're always at max health, that won't happen in 8.0

4% Burning Rush needs to change if they tune down self healing.

[Deleted]

Immolate Burns the enemy, causing [*133.2% [*40% of Spell Power*] Fire damage immediately and an additional [*72.15% [*25% of Spell Power*] Fire damage over until cancelled. Periodic damage generates 1 Soul Shard Fragment and has a 50% chance to generate an additional 1 on critical strikes. Warlock - Destruction Spec. 6% 1.5% of Base Mana. 40 yd range. 1.5 sec cast.
Incinerate Draws fire toward the enemy, dealing [*233.1% [*58.28% of Spell Power*] Fire damage. Generates 2 Soul Shard Fragments and an additional 1 on critical strikes. Warlock - Destruction Spec. 5% 2% of Base Mana. 40 yd range. 2 sec cast.

From first page... Am I missing something? Would strong doubt Destro would have so many instants.

Ahh, well they are showing in the talent calc under the specialisation spells as being instant.

http://beta.wowdb.com/talent-calculator#n

If current destro had those as instants then yeah that would be OP, but my point was if those were instants in Bfa, they would push the co-efficient's right down so they hit like a noodle basically and were the sole purpose of building shards so all the damage can be put into big nukes like a 3s chaos bolt or 4s soulfire. Which in turn would mean on heavy movement encounters the spec would not be totally neutered as you can still build shards you just have to find those windows of non-movement to get your damage out.

The main reason CB has been watered down so much is the power of every other spell, so it must be balanced. Having incinerate on a 2s cast means a higher co-efficient therefore smaller nukes to compensate as well as running into issues over building shards during heavy movement.

Anyways this is all my speculation and its clear it could go either direction due to the conflicting tooltips. I would like to see those spells stay instant for the reasons i give above, which to me also feels more consistent with what they said they want to do with individual classes in the water cooler.

Early days yet, still hopeful tho.

[Cainium]

There are many encounters, not only in M+,where there are large aoe hits on the whole grp/raid. The fact that Aff can heal pretty much from 5-100% in 3-4s with his filler is just to strong.

There is no point in saying "it's too strong" if it doesn't matter for the raid if there is an aff-lock or a mage for the raids success. And this judgement is done based on their DPS, not on their survivability.

And since Blizz is "trying" to balance open world pvp, because there are going to be some important horde vs ally areas, it needs to be tuned down.
Being fully healed in seconds while doing DPS is just insanely strong, too strong.
I really like the selfheal myself but I don't let it cloud my judegment.

Good joke. A rogue kills you within the duration of a single stun in openworld pvp.

And, last but not least: Drain Souls costs a shitload of mana making you unable to DPS without life tap, which plays directly into the cards of your enemy in pvp.

In the current iteration the self heal is fine. In BFa probaly not, but thats not a point for the current version.

That makes no sense. Nobody is going to skill Haunt to use it as a totem killer, it would always be on cd since you would want to use it as a nuke.
And you are not holding back the Nightfall proc, since you get them so often with Corr on 3 targets, you just fire them away and very very likely get one when the tremor totem is up.

Well, thats just guessing around. You can believe that the gods of randomness will be on your side always the shaman puts out a totem. But thats just wild guessing and "believe". If we want to discuess like that... i'll bet that the proc chance will be based on RPPM to avoid aff locks spamming shadow bolt like crazy on short lived AoE fights. "If" it's RPPM, it doesn't matter how many Corrs you have out.

The Haunt window is pretty much the same as the drain cycle, it requires managment of resourcess and dots in a certain time window.
You are making it sound wayyy more complicated than it actually is.
You apply your dots, cast 2x UA, reap and drain away, and then you pretty much get a time window of 10s where you do nothing but draining before you need to refresh you Corr thats about to fall off.

- You can do other things while haunt is running, like moving
- You can't fit a second full drain cycle after refreshing Corr 'cause SL is about to fall of.
- You have the 2PC and fatal echoes procs which will force proper action based on them.
- You have boss mechanics to deal with.

Like I said before, how complicated it is depends on how well you are doing. If you just want to kill the boss playing it to 75% of maximum potential is good enough. Being better is a lot harder. And that's a good thing about it. The new mechanics just drop of that micro managment skill cap.

And how is movement going to be worse with SB?
You know you'll get Shadow Embrace which pretty much applies the MG debuff to the target and which doesn't go away when you move?

You know what a "maintenance buff" is? Same effect, but a lot easier to manage.

Movement will be worse 'cause you have a long cast that you will have to interrupt for ZERO damage and just a huge time waste. And even worse: Considering some boss mechanics you won't be able to even maintain the shadow embrace debuff, while now you can delay the drain cycle and/or use UA just for contagion to not cap shards.

I would call that a upgrade if movement is your argument.
(Ofc there will be the old downsides like SB travel time and keeping up the three stacks)

For me it's a clear downgrade due to the loss of the micro managment MG requires compared to just maintenance buffs like Haunt and shadow embrace.

But overall personal preference plays a role too, there are people who like DS and there are people who like SB.
Drain is overall easier to manage and more comfortable to use, since you are not spamming your filler key.
SB brings more variety to the table and increases your clicks per minute (which is a good or a bad thing, that depends on the viewer)

"Personal preference" is the killer point for every discussion, so I avoid to use it, and explain why DS is mechanically better.
Drain is easier without MG, but harder with it.
If one compares 4sec drain vs 2.5 sec shadow bolt cast, one hits the button one more time in a double DS window (not counting the times one have to interrupt DS to avoid a boss mechanic and start it again), What will increase the click rate drastically is Nightfall, where we don't even know if it will stay, and/or will be a viable option so I wouldn't count to much on that.

Overall i'm still not convinced what SB brings any good outside of "personal preference", but I wouldn't even consider that as a class designer 'cause I know what will happen....

[Deleted]

And here I thought the usual lock crybabies that want "lock back as it was in vanilla" with their rose-tinted nostalgy glasses would be satisfied with the classic servers. But no, those of us who want to play a thought-through and viable class in both raids and m+, seem to continue to be screwed by them...

The biggest argument against shadow bolt is the "all or nothing" aspect of it in case of movement. I'd rather get one or 2 ticks of a drain than having to abort a shadow bolt after 2 seconds of cast because the boss mechanic requires you to move. And, without the self-heal of the drain, you are additionally forced to move more because you can't simply stand in shit while expecting to heal yourself back up.

Play the Kingaroth encounter, especially the add phases and you will know exactly what I mean: Drain = ignore green swirlies and do dps. Shadow bolt = start casting, swirlie comes, move out with 0 dps.

Based on the trend of the boss encounters, this will be the case in the majority of them.

[Bearded Sith]

Demonic Empowerment looks unchanged, so that's not great.

I will caveat this post by saying I haven't made it through the entire post yet, BUT...

I swear I saw something on Wowhead saying Demonic Empowerment was instant. Did anyone else see that? Going back now, I see it still has a cast time, so it was most likely a datamining issue at first.

Honest thoughts, though. Would making it instant "fix" the problems with Demonology? Just curious what others' thoughts on this are. Granted, the ideal solution is to remove it or put a long cooldown on it (say, 2 minutes, lasts 30 seconds, or some sort of thing...think Bestial Wrath from Beastmaster Hunters).

Making it instant would go a long way to improving the play style for me, personally.

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Absolutely no changes to Demo when they said it would be one of the few classes getting a major overhaul? It looks like Aff and Destru got more fucking work done on it than Demo.

Calm down cupcake, it's just the initial data dump from the Alpha. Demonology looks incredibly unfinished, so it WILL change. Give them time, man...give them time...

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RIP Drain Life/Soul. Seems like most in here hated it but I loved it.

Yeah, I don't really understand the hatred toward Drain Soul. I really liked it, but if people hate it, and they're in the majority, then Ok, I'll deal with Shadow Bolt again.


The thing I liked the most about Drain Soul over Shadow Bolt was the ability to short-cast Drain Soul to help improve movement. Shadow bolt, you can't short-cast it...

[Ashkiman]

Demonic Empowerment Empowers your active demons with dark energies, increasing their haste by 50%, health by 20%, and damage by 0% for until cancelled. Warlock - Demonology Spec. 6% 1.5% of Base Mana. 100 yd range. 1.5 sec cast.

Did it always say "untill cancelled" in datamined info? Cuz I'm pretty sure it has a duration