Why will Mage tower and Mythic Plus appearances be Unobtainable post Legion?

[Deleted]

Good how? Nobody has yet been able to provide a reasonable answer for this besides "it makes people log in now". But more importantly: How does making the appearances available again HURT the game? I challenge you to answer that.

Those of use who are promoting continued access to these challenges, AS challenges, are seeking a better long-term solution than just preserving an artificial sense of prestige created by nonsensical time-restrictions.

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But the point is that even now, today, players can go back to previous expansion's raids and clear them on their Mythic setting for the Xmogs. Why, then, are people trying to hold up Challenge Mode sets as being special when Mythic raids during the same expansions were far harder to obtain?

The argument that CM sets shouldn't be available because the challenge couldn't be correctly translated is, quite frankly, ridiculous and inconsistent.

The argument that CM sets should have their "prestige" maintained when other, more difficult content(Mythics) are not being maintained is likewise inconsistent. Furthermore, Blizzard themselves invalidate the "prestige" of these appearances by selling them for GOLD in the BMAH.



Keep in mind here that I'm mostly agreeing with you. I think all the old challenges should be brought up to date and released with each expansion. Or better: Redesigned in such a way so that the challenge remains consistent regardless of what expansion it's in(using the vehicle system, scaling, or some other method).

Really, when I get down to asking myself if my point of view is really unreasonable or not, it always comes back to this. Which is better:

• Telling new/returning players "Too bad so sad! You'll never get cool things like this!" So that snowflakes can get an ego boost. On top of having all the dev time spent on creating those challenges simply going to waste as they don't get used after they're shut down.

OR:

• Giving players more activities that they can challenge themselves against, and rewarding both new and old players for playing the game well instead of just logging in during a window of time. As well as re-using valuable dev time in an environment where players are CONSTANTLY asking for more things to do.

Over and over again, I always ask: What is GAINED by leaving the challenge modes and appearances turned off? And I just can't come up with anything besides an ambiguous attempt to preserve or promote making players feel special at the expense of continued gameplay and quality. It just doesn't seem like a good trade.

How do you suggest they keep the consistent difficulty that it had back then when classes are getting changed basicly all expansions, sometimes more than once?

[Deleted]

• Telling new/returning players "Too bad so sad! You'll never get cool things like this!" So that snowflakes can get an ego boost. On top of having all the dev time spent on creating those challenges simply going to waste as they don't get used after they're shut down.

Since you are talking about "dev time spent", have you realized that if Blizzard wanted to maintain this Challenges in future expansion...they would have to rebalance the entire challenge every...single...expansion?

MoP CM sets would need to be balanced in WoD, then balanced again in Legion.
Same thing with Mage Tower, balance the entire system in Battle for Azeroth...

Basically you are asking Blizzard to "go back" and rebalance entire systems every single expansion.

Blizzard has enough work on their hands creating new expansions, and you are asking for them to "waste dev time" balancing this challenges every expansion just because some grown ass man is sad because he cant get one transmog in a videogame.

[Darktbs]

Since you are talking about "dev time spent", have you realized that if Blizzard wanted to maintain this Challenges in future expansion...they would have to rebalance the entire challenge every...single...expansion?

MoP CM sets would need to be balanced in WoD, then balanced again in Legion.
Same thing with Mage Tower, balance the entire system in Battle for Azeroth...

Basically you are asking Blizzard to "go back" and rebalance entire systems every single expansion.

Blizzard has enough work on their hands creating new expansions, and you are asking for them to "waste dev time" balancing this challenges every expansion just because some grown ass man is sad because he cant get one transmog in a videogame.

Didn't a bunch of no lifers asked blizzard to remake the game how it was 14 years ago?

How is that any different?

[Deleted]

Didn't a bunch of no lifers asked blizzard to remake the game how it was 14 years ago?

How is that any different?

LoL. touché xD

But seriously, everytime Blizzard would release a new expansion.
"Oh snaps, wait a minute, we have to rework entire systems from the stone ages because some people are mad about limited edition rewards"

FFS try to grasp the reason for "limited edition rewards". They exist because they are cool.

[Deleted]

LoL. touché xD

But seriously, everytime Blizzard would release a new expansion.
"Oh snaps, wait a minute, we have to rework entire systems from the stone ages because some people are mad about limited edition rewards"

FFS try to grasp the reason for "limited edition rewards". They exist because they are cool.

Occam's razor.

Stop making limited edition content then... lol.

[xcitng]

These were made for current expansion, much rather the effort to keep them relevant (scaling/testing on bfa ect) be put onto the expansion, not the old content, they are pretty much effortless to get at this point also....

If people want the transmog, you've got 9 months, have at it

[SirCowdog]

Since you are talking about "dev time spent", have you realized that if Blizzard wanted to maintain this Challenges in future expansion...they would have to rebalance the entire challenge every...single...expansion?

MoP CM sets would need to be balanced in WoD, then balanced again in Legion.
Same thing with Mage Tower, balance the entire system in Battle for Azeroth...

Basically you are asking Blizzard to "go back" and rebalance entire systems every single expansion.

Blizzard has enough work on their hands creating new expansions, and you are asking for them to "waste dev time" balancing this challenges every expansion just because some grown ass man is sad because he cant get one transmog in a videogame.

With all due respect, Blizzard is CONSTANTLY rebalancing classes and dungeon/raid encounters. They also continue to do things like releasing time-walking versions of older dungeons and raids. Then they do something on the scale of rebalancing the ENTIRE leveling process to work with scaling.

I don't know why you'd think it would be such a big deal for them to do this once per expansion for Challenges as well. With all the rebalancing and updating of older systems to work with scaling that they've been doing lately, at this point I'd say it would be more consistent for them to also do so with Challenges.

[therealbowser]

Yes, but I won't be upset or feel cheated if they aren't. It's not because I want to get them easiler -- they really aren't that hard to get right now, even -- I just don't like the idea of retiring cosmetic content. The challenges aren't that challenging, with a few exceptions, anyways.

I do think those whom have completed the content should be recognized for their effort -- like "of the Black Harvest" for green fire warlocks who did it before MoP ended -- but I don't think the appearances need to be removed from the game.

Hell, Blizzard could even scale down your character for them if they really wanted to. It just seems petty to have great looking aesthetic weapons and remove them from the game because "I did this content when it was 'hard'." There are ways to express that without cutting off content.

[kamuimac]

How do you suggest they keep the consistent difficulty that it had back then when classes are getting changed basicly all expansions, sometimes more than once?

nobody give a damn about difficulty - the reason for this is 1 and only 1 - so people keep being subbed during lack of content due to end of expansion

without this they know their numbers would plummet down to 100-200k subs

[Jngizu]

How do you suggest they keep the consistent difficulty that it had back then when classes are getting changed basicly all expansions, sometimes more than once?

Make it similar to the Proving Grounds. I haven't done them in legion, but scale it that way. Sure, depending on the patch or the xpac, it will be harder for some classes, but it was already the case during MoP and WoD. SP or ele Sham had to switch to heal to find groups, while locks made everything easy (at least in MoP, dunno for WoD).

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Yes, but I won't be upset or feel cheated if they aren't. It's not because I want to get them easiler -- they really aren't that hard to get right now, even -- I just don't like the idea of retiring cosmetic content. The challenges aren't that challenging, with a few exceptions, anyways.

I do think those whom have completed the content should be recognized for their effort -- like "of the Black Harvest" for green fire warlocks who did it before MoP ended -- but I don't think the appearances need to be removed from the game.

Hell, Blizzard could even scale down your character for them if they really wanted to. It just seems petty to have great looking aesthetic weapons and remove them from the game because "I did this content when it was 'hard'." There are ways to express that without cutting off content.

Another thing is allied races. I'm waiting for Zandalari Trolls to level up a warrior on my new account. That means I will never have the Mage Tower sets unless I decide to create one now, for only that purpose.

[therealbowser]

nobody give a damn about difficulty - the reason for this is 1 and only 1 - so people keep being subbed during lack of content due to end of expansion

without this they know their numbers would plummet down to 100-200k subs

I highly doubt thousands of players are subbing just to do challenge mode appearances.

Anyone who really, really wanted them has them by now, with some odd exceptions. (extremely hard challenges [badly tuned ones, in other words], leveling new characters, etc.)

[cparle87]

An what if your main becomes a Nightborne or any of the other Allied races, then what?

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An if your a new player?

Didn't they say that, like mogs, the artifact skins would be account wide? You could earn them on your, say human warrior right now, and they'd be unlocked on any warrior once they levelled up to Legion level?

For new players, the incentive is if you're on the wall about whether you'll start playing now or later, you hear about something time sensitive that might tip the scales into wanting to start playing now to get it. For current players, it makes you want to not unsub so you don't miss something.

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Ok, let's assume you have a point with this one, even if excluding the million reasons why someone would have stopped it. But for new players?

Guy who doesn't play: "Hey bro, playing that game you wanted to me to play, WoW? Not sure I'm into it. Whacha doin' right now"?
Guy who plays: "Ah, playing on my druid."
Guy who doesn't play: "Oh wow, you look awesome, that glowy cat. What is that?"
Guy who plays: "This is an alternate form I unlocked. When the xpac comes out next year it won't be possible to get anymore."
Guy who doesn't play: "Man, I want that. Better go make an account before I miss it."

[Eazy]

Good how? Nobody has yet been able to provide a reasonable answer for this besides "it makes people log in now". But more importantly: How does making the appearances available again HURT the game? I challenge you to answer that.

Just do the content when it's actual. As I said - back then we had different talents/gear/ilvl etc. It would be stupid to do the same thing again with the game we have right now. It would be just like TW - faceroll.

It's like saying "I want to experience how it was in the medieval times" - times change, panta rhei. That's the natural way of things.

[Geckoo]

I disagree with the removal of any kind of content and the reasons given to do so.

I don't need them to remove content from the game to make me feel special.
I don't need them to remove content to reward me for playing the game, because in the end they are also punishing me since i won't be able to earn those rewards with a character i did not have back then despite having played the whole expansion.

I don't care if someone get's an old set soloing the hardest raid difficulty that took me months to clear 5 years ago, so why would i care if someone gets the mage tower skin in a few seconds two years from now, or if they are able to beat my best times in MoP challenge modes alone?

In the end any kind of prestige those rewards had has already expired and removing the ability to obtain them is not going to bring it back. The only thing they achieve in a long-term situation is to have a cool piece of artwork lost and forgotten in a massive library of skins that people use only based on looks and with prestige constantly moving on to the newest of them all.

[Deleted]

Yes, but I won't be upset or feel cheated if they aren't. It's not because I want to get them easiler -- they really aren't that hard to get right now, even -- I just don't like the idea of retiring cosmetic content. The challenges aren't that challenging, with a few exceptions, anyways.

I do think those whom have completed the content should be recognized for their effort -- like "of the Black Harvest" for green fire warlocks who did it before MoP ended -- but I don't think the appearances need to be removed from the game.

Hell, Blizzard could even scale down your character for them if they really wanted to. It just seems petty to have great looking aesthetic weapons and remove them from the game because "I did this content when it was 'hard'." There are ways to express that without cutting off content.

They already have plenty of tools for scaling, like the Chromie encounter. It would make obtaining the challenge appearances (either MoP sets or WoD / Legion weapons) even more of a challenge later than it is now, where you can brute force some challenges with overgearing.

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I disagree with the removal of any kind of content and the reasons given to do so.

I don't need them to remove content from the game to make me feel special.
I don't need them to remove content to reward me for playing the game, because in the end they are also punishing me since i won't be able to earn those rewards with a character i did not have back then despite having played the whole expansion.

I don't care if someone get's an old set soloing the hardest raid difficulty that took me months to clear 5 years ago, so why would i care if someone gets the mage tower skin in a few seconds two years from now, or if they are able to beat my best times in MoP challenge modes alone?

In the end any kind of prestige those rewards had has already expired and removing the ability to obtain them is not going to bring it back. The only thing they achieve in a long-term situation is to have a cool piece of artwork lost and forgotten in a massive library of skins that people use only based on looks and with prestige constantly moving on to the newest of them all.

Also this. I care that I get the things I like. I don't care how many other players are able to do so. I am not a big fan of Shania Twain but - the prestige of some people does not impress me much.

[Easo]

Guy who doesn't play: "Hey bro, playing that game you wanted to me to play, WoW? Not sure I'm into it. Whacha doin' right now"?
Guy who plays: "Ah, playing on my druid."
Guy who doesn't play: "Oh wow, you look awesome, that glowy cat. What is that?"
Guy who plays: "This is an alternate form I unlocked. When the xpac comes out next year it won't be possible to get anymore."
Guy who doesn't play: "Man, I want that. Better go make an account before I miss it."

Hey, I saw this WoW commercial/wanted to try some new game to play. Im gonna try this druid thingy.
Hey, look another druid thingy, except he is green and awesome!
"Random green person, pray tell, how can I become green and awesome too?"
"You cant anymore because you didnt play year before"
"Oh... "

[Musta]

I got all the ones I like with no problem. Ill not regret anything, there a lot of ugly skins

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I disagree with the removal of any kind of content and the reasons given to do so.

I don't need them to remove content from the game to make me feel special.
I don't need them to remove content to reward me for playing the game, because in the end they are also punishing me since i won't be able to earn those rewards with a character i did not have back then despite having played the whole expansion.

I don't care if someone get's an old set soloing the hardest raid difficulty that took me months to clear 5 years ago, so why would i care if someone gets the mage tower skin in a few seconds two years from now, or if they are able to beat my best times in MoP challenge modes alone?

In the end any kind of prestige those rewards had has already expired and removing the ability to obtain them is not going to bring it back. The only thing they achieve in a long-term situation is to have a cool piece of artwork lost and forgotten in a massive library of skins that people use only based on looks and with prestige constantly moving on to the newest of them all.

TBH, im ok with this too.

[SirCowdog]

Just do the content when it's actual. As I said - back then we had different talents/gear/ilvl etc. It would be stupid to do the same thing again with the game we have right now. It would be just like TW - faceroll.

It's like saying "I want to experience how it was in the medieval times" - times change, panta rhei. That's the natural way of things.

Except that videogames are not real life. There's no real reason to remove content once it's released.

I counter your point of view by pointing out all the old raids which are still available for people to go back and farm. Many of them have even been updated by Blizzard to allow solo players to clear them, despite the original mechanics requiring multiple players.

You said "It be stupid... It would be...faceroll". I ask you to explain why that's a problem. It can't be because the original challenges are trying to be preserved, because the original challenges weren't that hard in the first place. They were not as difficult as raids, and yet those raids are still available. Walk me through the logic.

You said "Back then we had different talents/gear/ilvl" which seems to be implying that the challenges wouldn't be the same difficulty as they were when the first released. But again I point to all the other old content which is still available to run and get gear from. Why are challenges singled out as an exception? Can you explain?

Because I don't think you can. I think it's just defending exclusive stuff simple for it to be exclusive. Where's the benefit of that? How does making them available again hurt the game?

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I highly doubt thousands of players are subbing just to do challenge mode appearances.

Anyone who really, really wanted them has them by now, with some odd exceptions. (extremely hard challenges [badly tuned ones, in other words], leveling new characters, etc.)

And yet there are people who are claiming that they logging in and got the appearances for Artifacts on almost all classes/specs. There are people who STILL do mount/xmog farming runs right now, even though it's almost exclusively in outdated content from previous expansions. Why not include CMs and Mage Tower runs in that list?

I'm still waiting for ANYONE to explain how making those things available indefinitely would hurt the game. Even if all Blizzard did was just turn them on without any scaling or balancing, it would still be one more activity for people to do when they aren't raiding, or during the periods of time between major content releases.

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For new players, the incentive is if you're on the wall about whether you'll start playing now or later, you hear about something time sensitive that might tip the scales into wanting to start playing now to get it. For current players, it makes you want to not unsub so you don't miss something.

That helps Blizzard's profits. But how does that help the PLAYERS?

Guy who doesn't play: "Hey bro, playing that game you wanted to me to play, WoW? Not sure I'm into it. Whacha doin' right now"?
Guy who plays: "Ah, playing on my druid."
Guy who doesn't play: "Oh wow, you look awesome, that glowy cat. What is that?"
Guy who plays: "This is an alternate form I unlocked. When the xpac comes out next year it won't be possible to get anymore."
Guy who doesn't play: "Man, I want that. Better go make an account before I miss it."

Alternatively:

Guy who doesn't play: "Oh wow, you look awesome, that glowy cat. What is that?"
Guy who plays: "This is an alternate form I unlocked in an older xpack. You can't get it anymore."
Guy who doesn't play: "Aw Man, I want that. Guess I'll pass if I can't get it anymore. "

[Eazy]

Except that videogames are not real life.

Okay.

There's no real reason to remove content once it's released.

Yes, there is - exclusiveness.

I counter your point of view by pointing out all the old raids which are still available for people to go back and farm. Many of them have even been updated by Blizzard to allow solo players to clear them, despite the original mechanics requiring multiple players.

Blizzard even add pets for them, so you could play more. Simple as that.
They're also reducing chance for the last mythic/heroic boss mounts for a reason.

You said "It be stupid... It would be...faceroll". I ask you to explain why that's a problem. It can't be because the original challenges are trying to be preserved, because the original challenges weren't that hard in the first place. They were not as difficult as raids, and yet those raids are still available. Walk me through the logic.

Because that won't be the same thing. I don't want anyone to have it easier to earn the same reward than I did and I think that would be fair.
Anyway, there's a difference between raids and challenges. One is giving you gear for progression, one is giving you exclusive T-mog.

You said "Back then we had different talents/gear/ilvl" which seems to be implying that the challenges wouldn't be the same difficulty as they were when the first released. But again I point to all the other old content which is still available to run and get gear from. Why are challenges singled out as an exception? Can you explain?

As I wrote above - challenges are pure T-mog thing. They're made to be exclusive. You cannot really compare raids to challenges, they're totally different things. They're named challenges for a reason.

Because I don't think you can. I think it's just defending exclusive stuff simple for it to be exclusive. Where's the benefit of that? How does making them available again hurt the game?

That would hurt players who earned them in a fair way.
...and as I wrote before - you cannot do them in a fair way again(differenct scaling/ilvl/abilities/talents etc. etc.) - so keep them exclusive.

[Carnedge]

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I'd bet this guy sells carries for gold.

Ad hominem...

They're supposed to be a reward for playing the game while that content was relevant. Regardless if it's easy or hard, it's a unique prize to show others that you played then. Blizzard does this in order to make more people want to keep playing longer. If they didn't do this, most people would simply sub for 1 month, farm all of last expansion content faceroll style, then unsub until the next expansion comes out so the can faceroll the "old" content once they hit max level again.

I wish I was good enough back in the day to get all of the MoP cmode sets... oh well. I just learned to try harder. I'm not going to try to bully a company with shaming or guilting (I know it's not a word) in order to get something I could have got then.