Secondary stat loss -- is there a limit?

[HollyCarp]

My Death Knight is Unholy and NO I will not switch to Frost :P

Icy Veins says about Unholy stat distribution:

>>Note that Strength is extremely valuable, and choosing a higher item level piece in spite of its poor stat distribution should not be unusual for you.<<

And it also says:

>>Mastery, through Mastery: Dreadblade, increases your Shadow damage. Shadow damage makes up a great part of your total damage.<<

And I have found that I cannot get a single, solitary piece of gear upgrade that fails to have ***ABSOLUTELY*** nothing but Crit/Vers Crit/Vers Crit/Vers Crit/Vers Crit/Vers Crit/Vers Crit/Vers Crit/Vers Crit/Vers Crit/Vers Crit/Vers Crit/Vers Crit/Vers Crit/Vers Crit/Vers Crit/Vers Crit/Vers Crit/Vers Crit/Vers Crit/Vers Crit/Vers Crit/Vers Crit/Vers Crit/Vers Crit/Vers Crit/Vers Crit/Vers Crit/Vers Crit/Vers Crit/Vers Crit/Vers Crit/Vers Crit/Vers Crit/Vers Crit/Vers Crit/Vers Crit/Vers Crit/Vers Crit/Vers Crit/Vers Crit/Vers Crit/Vers Crit/Vers Crit/Vers Crit/Vers Crit/Vers Crit/Vers Crit/Vers Crit/Vers Crit/Vers Crit/Vers Crit/Vers Crit/Vers Crit/Vers Crit/Vers Crit/Vers Crit/Vers Crit/Vers Crit/Vers Crit/Vers Crit/Vers Crit/Vers Crit/Vers , the bane of gear upgrades.

So my question, how much Mastery can I afford to give up for Strength, never ever ever ***EVER*** failing to lose Mastery and getting nothing but Crit/Vers Crit/Vers Crit/Vers in return? Can I afford to end up with Mastery near ZERO and about 862 GAZILLION percent Crit/Vers ?

This is partially applicable to nearly all my toons but due to the specifics listed for Unholy DK, I'm using her as an example.

How much of the most important Secondary Stats can I afford to lose in return for ONLY the least important, even if Strength (the primary) is the overall king?

Is there a line I have to draw somewhere?

[Rylad]

Sim yourself to see what your individual stat weights are. They will change according to each potential upgrade. Use Raidbots and the SimulationCraft addon to run the TopGear sim.

[Pua]

Sim yourself to see what your individual stat weights are. They will change according to each potential upgrade. Use Raidbots and the SimulationCraft addon to run the TopGear sim.

Yeah, you could do that.

Or you could just equip your highest item level gear, enchant it (if necessary), and play the game without so much stress.

[Bareno]

Yeah, you could do that.

Or you could just equip your highest item level gear, enchant it (if necessary), and play the game without so much stress.

Simming your gear is 'stressful' now? Seriously? Using raidbots and putting in weights in pawn is so stupidly easy

[Rylad]

Simming your gear is 'stressful' now? Seriously? Using raidbots and putting in weights in pawn is so stupidly easy

You don't even need to put the weights in, the sim can tell you the best gear from what's in your bags even.

[kingj56]

Eh strength being important is kind of a lie. My warrior is kind of undergeared im only a like a 885 ilvl which is really low. I have no good legs for my class they are all situational except for the ring from the quest to kill argus. I still have 850 haste mastery pieces just cause verse/crit 900 is bad and drops my dps. I burst 1.5mil and sustain 1mil dps. WAAAAAAAAY better than others i have seen with higher ilvl. Keep ur dps rotation tight and ur dps should be fine without the upgraded pieces. Also since blood and unholy use the same stats overall just tank for yourself until u get an upgrade. Makes grinding for gear alot easier when you can fill an important role when u want.

[porubezhnik]

Also since blood and unholy use the same stats overall

Wut? (Ten wut)

[hellhamster]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...#gid=426078608

[Pua]

Simming your gear is 'stressful' now? Seriously? Using raidbots and putting in weights in pawn is so stupidly easy

I'm betting that equipping your highest item level is easier.

And it's the best thing to do for everything other than competitive raiding... Which next to nobody does.

[Noxina]

I'm just assuming from the fact that you are using an icy veins guide, that you're not into Mythic raiding. So does it really matter at this point? A couple percentages more dps from your gear won't do that much in all fairness, just equipping the highest ilvl will most likely do it for you.

If not, there is only one real answer - sim your self to see what pieces give you the most dps output. Test out all the different options of item set ups and pick the one that performs the best (raidbots got a nice tool for this, but it is limited to how many pieces you can test).

Though if that is too much work, just equip what ever is highest, and it will most likely not be that much of a big difference.

[Baddok21]

If it helps your Dark Arbiter haste break points are

25.2% haste for 13 casts
33.7% haste for 14 casts
43.5% haste for 15 casts

weights will change based on how close you come to each breakpoint

[HollyCarp]

I'm just assuming from the fact that you are using an icy veins guide, that you're not into Mythic raiding.

No I'm not, but if Icy Veins alone is that much of a dead giveaway-- what is Icy Veins for? Just out of idle curiosity, if Icy Veins is known by everyone (except me obviously) to NOT be reliable for mythic raiding, what is it for?

[Soisoisoi]

I'm betting that equipping your highest item level is easier.

And it's the best thing to do for everything other than competitive raiding... Which next to nobody does.

You can continue using awful gear if you want, but don't tell others to be awful just because you are, there's already enough people who have zero clue what they are doing because you somehow think spending seconds on a website is stressful (god help you when you have to do something IRL). Other people actually want to improve their characters and not be carried, hence the whole point of this type of thread.

No I'm not, but if Icy Veins alone is that much of a dead giveaway-- what is Icy Veins for? Just out of idle curiosity, if Icy Veins is known by everyone (except me obviously) to NOT be reliable for mythic raiding, what is it for?

Icy-veins is fine for getting yourself started with alts and such, but you'll want to join your class discords for the most up-to-date resources/guides etc.

[Icoblablubb]

atleast he wasn't using Noxxic or else even LFR would be to hard of a content

[Piz813]

Yeah, you could do that.

Or you could just equip your highest item level gear, enchant it (if necessary), and play the game without so much stress.

I second this. It's fine dude! Lol just enjoy the game! I loved high crit UH

[Noxina]

No I'm not, but if Icy Veins alone is that much of a dead giveaway-- what is Icy Veins for? Just out of idle curiosity, if Icy Veins is known by everyone (except me obviously) to NOT be reliable for mythic raiding, what is it for?

It's basic guides that hardly covers all you need to know to perform at your best. Though I do believe some of the guides are better updated than others.

[Deleted]

If it helps your Dark Arbiter haste break points are

25.2% haste for 13 casts
33.7% haste for 14 casts
43.5% haste for 15 casts

weights will change based on how close you come to each breakpoint

I'm messing around at the moment and wondered why 8.5% for 13 to 14 casts, but 9.8% for 14-15 casts?

[keedorin]

Simming your gear is 'stressful' now? Seriously? Using raidbots and putting in weights in pawn is so stupidly easy

I think he's right. It would be more stressful for me to spend hours or days fighting a target dummy over and over until I reach 10,001 attempts than to spend 10 seconds simming myself.

[elaina]

I'm messing around at the moment and wondered why 8.5% for 13 to 14 casts, but 9.8% for 14-15 casts?

Probably either a soft cap or diminishing returns

[Deleted]

No I'm not, but if Icy Veins alone is that much of a dead giveaway-- what is Icy Veins for? Just out of idle curiosity, if Icy Veins is known by everyone (except me obviously) to NOT be reliable for mythic raiding, what is it for?

To be fair Icy-veins isn't a bad website, most of the guides give you a solid foundation for what to expect from your class/spec with some tips and tricks thrown in here and there.
The main issue with most of the icy-veins guides is that they're outdated.
if you want the most up to date info you'll usually have to check the discords (99% of the time you'll find what you need in the pins of x specs channel) and by simming your char to optimized output

Here's a link to the discords: http://www.wowhead.com/discord-servers
you don't need to download the client you can just use the browser version, enjoy!

Edit: As others have mentioned as well the website https://www.raidbots.com/simbot along with the addon https://wow.curseforge.com/projects/simulationcraft makes simming easy and convenient(unless you're a shadow priest)!