better itemization would be better than class balancing?

[Xecks]

i mean actually having the gear to do hybrid roles would go a long way twords balancing than skill balancing i think.
it would be more acceptable to me to have items added than talent and skill tweaks.

[Thatfire]

I agree. Class balancing might not be needed if they visit itemization. Itemization could actually kill 2 birds with one stone. Not only would it help with fixing some classes setbacks but get rid of all of those useless items that is just vendor'ed or DE fodder. I know that the "purists " are coming with torches soon that will say "leave it alone because we liked getting those useless items that benefited no class or spec in the game" or "the useless stats on items like 2 handed swords with Int was part of the game and we cant touch it".

I know that some loot tables are already bloated so how would they do this? You would probably have to go to class set tokens. Like the ole boss drops a token for a Paladin should set piece. Then you would take that token and go to a vendor that would let you choose between a shoulder piece tailored to each spec for a paladin. They could receive a special bonus on lets say a Paladin or Druid chest piece that would would let one of your abilities double as a taunt or reduce the chance you would receive a crushing blow to that of a warriors. These are just examples of what they could do if they addressed itemization and used it to fix class deficiencies at the same time.

I don't think this would even affect PvP very much at all. Classes or specs would have to choose between armor sets and would maybe have to give something up to get something in exchange. Like PvP gear had a lot more Stamina or had perks that helped in PvP compared to the PvE class helping with mostly PvE things.

[Xecks]

I agree. Class balancing might not be needed if they visit itemization. Itemization could actually kill 2 birds with one stone. Not only would it help with fixing some classes setbacks but get rid of all of those useless items that is just vendor'ed or DE fodder. I know that the "purists " are coming with torches soon that will say "leave it alone because we liked getting those useless items that benefited no class or spec in the game" or "the useless stats on items like 2 handed swords with Int was part of the game and we cant touch it".

I know that some loot tables are already bloated so how would they do this? You would probably have to go to class set tokens. Like the ole boss drops a token for a Paladin should set piece. Then you would take that token and go to a vendor that would let you choose between a shoulder piece tailored to each spec for a paladin. They could receive a special bonus on lets say a Paladin or Druid chest piece that would would let one of your abilities double as a taunt or reduce the chance you would receive a crushing blow to that of a warriors. These are just examples of what they could do if they addressed itemization and used it to fix class deficiencies at the same time.

I don't think this would even affect PvP very much at all. Classes or specs would have to choose between armor sets and would maybe have to give something up to get something in exchange. Like PvP gear had a lot more Stamina or had perks that helped in PvP compared to the PvE class helping with mostly PvE things.

i am a purist but i would rather have items added than class balancing. thats if i have to choose. i would say however no class tokens. just if you have a set ammount in a tree you get these bonuses or something.
the classes that you had trouble with in pvp you would have trouble with them items or not.

[Zulatomten]

"Vanilla is Vanilla"

better itemization isn't Vanilla. it's Vanilla+
If you still have to ask for Vanilla+, ask for that after you have played Vanilla instead of before.

[Xecks]

"Vanilla is Vanilla"

better itemization isn't Vanilla. it's Vanilla+
If you still have to ask for Vanilla+, ask for that after you have played Vanilla instead of before.

i know that. im just saying if you had to choose like HAD to choose , which would you choose?

[Zulatomten]

i know that. im just saying if you had to choose like HAD to choose , which would you choose?

I whould choose No items with better itemization and no class changes, apart of any changes made between 1.1.0 and 1.12.2

[Thatfire]

Why are you against a "token"? Whats the difference with it dropping a Holy Paladin shoulder than a Paladin Shoulder Token. Same thing other than the fact that you can actually get a set piece for you spec and it doesn't bloat the loot table but actually leaves it just the same as it was before.

[Temis]

i am a purist but i would rather have items added than class balancing. thats if i have to choose. i would say however no class tokens. just if you have a set ammount in a tree you get these bonuses or something.
the classes that you had trouble with in pvp you would have trouble with them items or not.

If you just have the added items as just drops you would be adding a significant amount to the loot tables. If Blizzard would to do this I would think you would see tier added for dps warriors, shadow priests, balance druids, possible 2 items for feral druids for tank and dps, ret and prot paladins, elemental and enhancement shamans.

This would mean that you would have 6 or 7 more items on every loot table. Adding this many items to loot tables will significantly slow down a guilds ability to gear players. Imagine how mad you are going to be to see prot paladin tier drop knowing that even if you do have a prot paladin in raid that they are useless on a very high percentage of fights because they are unable to taunt.

This gear will have some effect on PvP, some of the classes that people believe are "not viable" are actually quite strong in PvP. Not to mention some people might find that they would rather raid to get gear then PvP which could significantly drop the number of people PvPing. In vanilla if you wanted to play a feral druid you have to PvP. Not only is the PvP set good for feral druids but the items that you get from the PvP rep is also very good. A lot of people that want to play a feral might not PvP because the gear from raids might be better or significantly less time consuming to get.

What will this gear look like?

- - - Updated - - -

A down side to a token is that you cant equip your tier item after it is looted to you.

[Xecks]

If you just have the added items as just drops you would be adding a significant amount to the loot tables. If Blizzard would to do this I would think you would see tier added for dps warriors, shadow priests, balance druids, possible 2 items for feral druids for tank and dps, ret and prot paladins, elemental and enhancement shamans.

This would mean that you would have 6 or 7 more items on every loot table. Adding this many items to loot tables will significantly slow down a guilds ability to gear players. Imagine how mad you are going to be to see prot paladin tier drop knowing that even if you do have a prot paladin in raid that they are useless on a very high percentage of fights because they are unable to taunt.

This gear will have some effect on PvP, some of the classes that people believe are "not viable" are actually quite strong in PvP. Not to mention some people might find that they would rather raid to get gear then PvP which could significantly drop the number of people PvPing. In vanilla if you wanted to play a feral druid you have to PvP. Not only is the PvP set good for feral druids but the items that you get from the PvP rep is also very good. A lot of people that want to play a feral might not PvP because the gear from raids might be better or significantly less time consuming to get.

What will this gear look like?

i said have the current set gear give bonuses based on how many points you have in say ret or prot or whatever. no adding to the loot table for those. of course adding in like a staff for feral tanks or something would add a bit of bloat but those would be few in number.

[Vineri]

i mean actually having the gear to do hybrid roles would go a long way twords balancing than skill balancing i think.
it would be more acceptable to me to have items added than talent and skill tweaks.

Which is all just another way to rebalance the game, taking away the true Vanilla experience, and replacing it with something I'm not very interested in.

Doing this would just make a mess, requiring further changes, and then more changes to some other parts to fix what got broken, then a rebalance of this and that ... And then we get item normalization. For those who want every damn thing they find to be a cookie cutter item with similar stats to everything else, just with a different name. Kind of like that retail rubbish design, eh?

Then everything becomes worthless, btw. Your stuff will be flooded all over the AH, and it just becomes vendor garbage anyways.

[AceofH]

Why are you against a "token"? Whats the difference with it dropping a Holy Paladin shoulder than a Paladin Shoulder Token. Same thing other than the fact that you can actually get a set piece for you spec and it doesn't bloat the loot table but actually leaves it just the same as it was before.

Because you fundamentally change the game from vanilla. And in order for prot to actually tank bosses they eould need more then just prot paladin gear. They would need a mana regen mechanic for one

[Nathasil]

Adding Hybrid gear to the game would be a MASSIVE change. Not even going to say yes or no here, just stating the obvious: You are requesting a GIANT change. Arguably a bigger one than LFD would be.

Your idea of using the most points spent in a tree to determine set bonuses would actually be a system that was never used in WoW at all before.

I think you should just campaign for Burning Crusade at this point. It sounds a lot more like what you want to play.

[Xecks]

Adding Hybrid gear to the game would be a MASSIVE change. Not even going to say yes or no here, just stating the obvious: You are requesting a GIANT change. Arguably a bigger one than LFD would be.

Your idea of using the most points spent in a tree to determine set bonuses would actually be a system that was never used in WoW at all before.

I think you should just campaign for Burning Crusade at this point. It sounds a lot more like what you want to play.

naw to be honest i was a purist. was just curious is all.

[Thatfire]

A down side to a token is that you cant equip your tier item after it is looted to you.

I guess you can say that is a negative but in reality you aren't guaranteed a drop when running a raid so you should be 100% prepared to get nothing and be able to go all the way through the raid without getting a drop.

[hulkgor]

Not a day goes by without the usual Vanilla+ suggestion.

Vanilla is vanilla. Not vanilla WITH X, Y or Z added or changed.

Further expansions with further QOL improvements came out, that's the path of innovation. Play Legion, play BFA when it comes out!

Just let Classic be the original flavour so we can enjoy it. Please stop trying to fuck it up with shitty suggestions.

[Scottyjscizzle]

I want none of any of this, let banilla be as unbalanced and crappily optimized as it was back then. Anyone who complains is perma-banned from the servers.

[Soon-TM]

I want none of any of this, let banilla be as unbalanced and crappily optimized as it was back then. Anyone who complains is perma-banned from the servers.

Indeed. Endless streamlining and "optimization" got us the bland, homogeneized glue called Diab... err, Legion. If I want optimization and "balance" (only in raids, because PvP is a massive !@#$fest) I will play Legion. If I want differentiated classes each with strong and weak points, I will play Classic... provided that the "balance" squad allows.

[Zoldor]

If there was one thing I'd change it would be itemization. Instead of adding items just fix the ones that are totally worthless, or skewed badly. Change a few of the duplicate items (excess items of the same slot with similiar or overlapping slots in a raid or tier of gear) and add a few if you have too. I'd rather this than anything, but I'm fine with unchanged as well.

[JerseyGhoul]

"Vanilla is Vanilla"

better itemization isn't Vanilla. it's Vanilla+
If you still have to ask for Vanilla+, ask for that after you have played Vanilla instead of before.

I went from Nelf hunter who didn’t know what talents were at 18 to dwarf priest raiding naxx at 60. Do I have enough of your approval to have an opinion or do I also need to brag about the undead character I leveled during the beta before you approve of me having an opinion?

[Schattenlied]

Not it wouldn't.

T0/0.5 (dungeon sets) didn't require a specific class for set bonuses and the ones for the "pure" classes were well itemized, so let's use them.

Shadowcraft/darkmantle is perfectly functional on a Rogue, but despite the set bonus also working for Cat druids and Cats wanting those exact same stats, and bonuses, they don't make Cat Druids viable.

DPS warriors wore mostly nonset gear for DPS, they were sort of viable, Ret Paladins wanted those same stats, but that gear didn't make them anywhere near even on par with Warriors.

Shadow Priests and Balance Druids wanted the exact same stats as Warlocks and Mages, their sets didn't make Spriest/Balance viable.

Prot Paladins wanted the same stats as Prot Warriors, their sets didn't make Prot Paladin viable.

The cause is inherent in the class design, not the stats on gear... So, if this is determined to be a problem that needs to be fixed, it needs to be fixed through the classes themselves, the gear cannot fix it.