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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by The Archmage View Post
    More then anything, however, i would like for a change in the AoE department. Arcane Explosion is as old as the game, and the improved visuals do not make up for a single spamming button that works at melee ranged which, as i have been saying since forever not, it is counterintuitive for a ranged caster and also pretty offputting in terms of the general "feel" of the class (not very magey to be alongside ironclad dudes swinging massively overinflated weapons at their enemies anytime we need to AoE). There are so many things we could do instead.
    Get away from arcane explosion! Hissssssss! It's a simple and wonderful spell. If you want clunky AoE you can play literally anything else. And don't tell me you want something that targets the ground like Blizzard or Flame Strike after bashing the admittedly horrid RoP in the very same post.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by D3athsting View Post
    I just hope rop will burn in hell for all mage specs once and for all
    I don't play Arcane because fuck ROP and I suck at manage mana.

  3. #23
    Just make supernova replace arcane explosion when talented, and return the double (maybe triple?) charge system to make it the burst aoe option, with resonance the sustained one. Maybe make it work off arcane charges and bam, fixed. Just SOMETHING to make it usable for damage. It's a crying shame that such an awesomely animated spell is relegated to "only take this when you need a soft interrupt on dungeon trash". I miss the days of WoD's rune+AP+double supernova=instagibbed trash

    While they're at it make arcane orb or nether tempest or something baseline, the 3 button rotation is such a snorefest I find myself taking both occasionally just to have something to do, even if it is a dps loss
    Last edited by robgoblin; 2018-01-31 at 03:24 AM.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by davesignal View Post
    The only spec that has a more obvious failure state than Arcane is Shadow using Surrender to Madness, because it just fuckin' kills you. That's a bit too harsh.
    Dying with StM is not a "fuck up" it's an inevitability. You can't not die with StM even when you don't "fuck up".

    There also legendaries right now that make it less punishable to "fuck up" arcane, like a hat for second evocation charge that you can simply keep to bail you out of this "oh shit i wasn't supposed to spam 4 ABs when i'm out of damage boosts and just used evocation", or ABarr pants

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Lumrocks View Post
    While they're hypothetically at it, maybe rethink Incanter's Flow as well. While you must at least put some thought into RoP, IF requires no effort at all.
    If instead it was a more essential part of our rotation... but not, it's just plastered on top of our rotations, nice to have but too insignificant and jarring to be regarded in our decision-making.
    I don't think that IF is a problem. Right now we have high risk high reward RoP, no risk low reward IF, and whatever the fuck MI right now, they have 40 seconds duration, die to AoE, and most importantly they have no interaction with the player (outside of keeping our buffs and stats (except mastery, which kinda amkes it shitty when we get more stats on our character) when used, but with abundance of buffs that proc randomly it's just pointless). Why would i pick MI over IF if IF sims higher than MI? They fill the same niche (one being passive bonus and other being a fire and forget CD), off course i'll pick something that requires no brain power to use over some brainpower to use for literally the same effect (and yes, i'm aware that MI is supposed to be "but they keep doing decent damage when you are running from shit and can't do damage yourself! Except there is no fight in the game when you are supposed to run around not being able to cast a thing for 40 seconds).

    TL;DR: i disagree that IF is a problem, MI is a problem. It either should be baseline or should be reworked to give more interaction with it, so you have an option between "no interaction" talent, and "you build your whole character around this talent and rely on it"

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by robgoblin View Post
    While they're at it make arcane orb or nether tempest or something baseline, the 3 button rotation is such a snorefest I find myself taking both occasionally just to have something to do, even if it is a dps loss
    Arcane spec isn't about rotation. By keeping spells simple they ensure that mana management is main gameplay. Adding more "free" buttons simply makes it easier to manage your mana, because, you know, you have something to press that costs no mana. With arcane spec you make a decision of "do i spend mana, or conserve mana?" and "conserving mana" is not "i just spam no-cost spells", but "i dump all my damage boost to reduce mana costs"
    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Dictionary
    Russians are a nation inhabiting territory of Russia an ex-USSR countries. Russians enjoy drinking vodka and listening to the bears playing button-accordions. Russians are open- and warm- hearted. They are ready to share their last prianik (russian sweet cookie) with guests, in case lasts encounter that somewhere. Though, it's almost unreal, 'cos russians usually hide their stuff well.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Charge me Doctor View Post
    Dying with StM is not a "fuck up" it's an inevitability. You can't not die with StM even when you don't "fuck up".
    Dying with S2M doesn't necessarily mean you fucked up; fucking up with S2M definitely means you're gonna die.

  6. #26
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by klaps_05 View Post
    Ray of frost needs to be baseline spell is so awesome
    ^
    T H I S
    Such an amazing ability, no other opinion allowed. It's so easy to understand and not very hard to use, but it's just badass.

  7. #27
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by D3athsting View Post
    I just hope rop will burn in hell for all mage specs once and for all
    Yes please! And make MI baseline again. They can fill up the row with some other talents instead.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Indus Siebenschraube View Post
    ^
    T H I S
    Such an amazing ability, no other opinion allowed. It's so easy to understand and not very hard to use, but it's just badass.
    Like, it looks fucking amazing. We are losing ebonbolt and RoF is basically a high risk high reward nuke due to having to stand still.

  9. #29
    I wish RoP would be taken off the gcd and become an instacast. Then I would like it much better.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Coconut View Post
    Get away from arcane explosion! Hissssssss! It's a simple and wonderful spell. If you want clunky AoE you can play literally anything else. And don't tell me you want something that targets the ground like Blizzard or Flame Strike after bashing the admittedly horrid RoP in the very same post.
    Different and more tematic for a ranged caster does not necesseraly mean clunky. Look at an Elemental Shaman, for example: it's great AoE, visually stunning, completely ranged as it should be and easy enough to execute.

    Or they could let us work around the "energy explosion" theme though our mostly unused Supernova, transforming it into a debuff we apply on a target that makes it explode for damage each time we nuke him, or again into a toggable ability that lets our ST target nukes deal a % AoE damage to everyone for increased mana cost... there are many places they could explore.

    Literally everything in 2018 is more justifiable than spamming a single button the WHOLE time, let alone in melee range, which is not where we should be in the first place.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by The Archmage View Post
    Different and more tematic for a ranged caster does not necesseraly mean clunky. Look at an Elemental Shaman, for example: it's great AoE, visually stunning, completely ranged as it should be and easy enough to execute.

    Or they could let us work around the "energy explosion" theme though our mostly unused Supernova, transforming it into a debuff we apply on a target that makes it explode for damage each time we nuke him, or again into a toggable ability that lets our ST target nukes deal a % AoE damage to everyone for increased mana cost... there are many places they could explore.

    Literally everything in 2018 is more justifiable than spamming a single button the WHOLE time, let alone in melee range, which is not where we should be in the first place.
    We don't need all classes to have multiple button rotations for both single target and AoE, tyvm*. I don't want to feel obligated to use a gaming mouse on my pc (which I also work on) in order to accommodate pointless buttons. If your peripherals give you more bind options than you need, choose a class with more buttons and/or focus on PvP. I, however, much prefer having room for mobility and situational abilities, and feel no need to lose some of that precious room for an absolutely pointless and trite "AoE rotation".

    Elemental Shaman, which I'm not very familiar with, since I only log that char for MoP World Boss tagging, is clunky as hell. It requires at least 3 buttons to pull off... two of them are "target the ground" type spells which are always worse than self or target-centric effects, and the other had a cast timer last I checked. Not to mention the general visual clutter of 3 effects pulsing at the same time.

    Arcane explosion has a big enough range that you don't quite "need" to stand in melee to use it, and even if when do due to spatial restrictions, it requires awareness in order to avoid the shit that takes place closer to the mobs. Reactionary awareness is always more exciting than proper execution of a clunky priority rotation.

    On top of that, AE is really really handy for gathering up mobs and nuking stuff in casual and trivial content, such as world quests, rep grinding, old raids, etc. Why would you want to lose that?! Do you really want us to hate our lives for the sake of your fancy idea of class fantasy? Class fantasy, by the way, which has consistently incorporated AE since the beginning.

    *Arcane itself isn't even a single button spam like you suggest. You still need to manage your mana with Barrage and Evo, but that is conveniently something shared by our single target kit, as it should be, instead of having two entirely separate rotations. And you can talent into extra stuff like Orb and NT if your fingers are twitching for some extra buttons.


    Edit: One compromise I see would be allowing you to replace AE with NT via a talent, so you can replace the "energy bursting from yourself" theme with "energy ripping through the enemy". Not sure what the alternatives would be, though... hopefully not something that disrupts a smooth and elegant rotation for the sake of adding more buttons.
    Last edited by Coconut; 2018-01-31 at 04:14 PM.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by The Archmage View Post
    Different and more tematic for a ranged caster does not necesseraly mean clunky. Look at an Elemental Shaman, for example: it's great AoE, visually stunning, completely ranged as it should be and easy enough to execute.

    Or they could let us work around the "energy explosion" theme though our mostly unused Supernova, transforming it into a debuff we apply on a target that makes it explode for damage each time we nuke him, or again into a toggable ability that lets our ST target nukes deal a % AoE damage to everyone for increased mana cost... there are many places they could explore.

    Literally everything in 2018 is more justifiable than spamming a single button the WHOLE time, let alone in melee range, which is not where we should be in the first place.
    Previously I would agree with you, but Blizzard has made clear that they want to go back to specs being good at one thing and not so good at others-- to give specs niches again. It seems extremely likely that Arcane Explosion's weird, counter-intuitive nature is going to be used to justify making Arcane's niche single target damage..

    .. and frankly, I'm okay with that, because that's generally the most useful niche to have.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Coconut View Post
    snip
    You are of course entitled to have your own opinion, although i do not share it. Handyness is not something that i value that much, since its very concept is rather subjective and tied more to fear of changing habits: there's plenty of classes that give a good example of proper and fun AoE rotations that require little to no effort and change just 1 button to accomplish it, perhaps 2.

    And to do that you certainly do not require a gaming mouse, which (again, as an example) i do not use, and i am a mythic raider.

    Class fantasy, however, is something that is healthy for the game and should be enforced whenever possible. Arcane is the only spec in the game that is required to be standing in melee range (this thread is about BfA, therefore the upgraded range we currently enjoy thanks to our artifact will be gone) to properly execute its main AoE toolkit, which mainly consists into using the same ability 4 times in a row and then another to manage mana expenditure, rince and repeat.

    Not only it is far from well designed, it poses problems to other functions of the spec itself, such as talents like Arcane Orb (wether talented or via legendary): whoever states that he never ninja pulled a trash pack during a M+ due to the orb going way beyond his intended targets is straight out lying. And that happens because Arcane Orb has the 40yd range that all ranged abilities have and share, more or less, but we have to stay where the ranged toolkit does not suggest we should be.

    Visually, we barely see our spells due to the proximity to our targets, diminishing their impact and the satisfaction that is awarded to other ranged casters when they hit their big nukes... but this can be subjective of course.

    All in all, i agree that anything can be worked around via positioning or practice and that some people can even enjoy the melee range requirement of Arcane's AoE, but it still remains a system that is not supported by any other interaction with our toolkit and that goes completely against the class fantasy of the typical arcane spellcaster, which the Mage class is supposed to fulfill.

    There was a time when Demo Warlocks were the king of AoE with their Demonic Leap into melee range and Immolation Aura that literally murdered everything, while turning into an unkillable demon that had more armor than tanks: now THAT is a toolkit that fully supports an idea strongly enforced by class fantasy.

    Much less so a fully robed cloth spellcaster (that is supposed to be an Archmage even) that rushes thowards his death completely unprotected because he does not know any other spell that allows him to damage an area of effect. [/QUOTE]

    Quote Originally Posted by davesignal View Post
    Previously I would agree with you, but Blizzard has made clear that they want to go back to specs being good at one thing and not so good at others-- to give specs niches again. It seems extremely likely that Arcane Explosion's weird, counter-intuitive nature is going to be used to justify making Arcane's niche single target damage..

    .. and frankly, I'm okay with that, because that's generally the most useful niche to have.
    What you are saying is correct, but do not mistaken my wish for the AoE toolkit to bo changed as hope of having a more effective one, because i don't. Effectiveness is not something i honestly care and if Arcane ends up having the worst AoE of the game in terms of pure dps prospective while removing that obsolete Arcane Explosion in favour of un upgraded system that allows me to stay where i am supposed to be, and most likely where my raid team wants to be, i would be perfectly happy with it.
    Last edited by The Archmage; 2018-01-31 at 06:49 PM.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by The Archmage View Post
    Class fantasy, however, is something that is healthy for the game and should be enforced whenever possible. Arcane is the only spec in the game that is required to be standing in melee range (this thread is about BfA, therefore the upgraded range we currently enjoy thanks to our artifact will be gone) to properly execute its main AoE toolkit, which mainly consists into using the same ability 4 times in a row and then another to manage mana expenditure, rince and repeat.
    Here's the thing about "enforcing" class fantasy... class fantasy is not perceived the same way by everyone.

    To me, arcane mages are risk takers. They channel incredible, raw powers that threaten to rapidly drain their energies. They use magic that is often unstable, from rotational spells to the exploding sheep we see in quests, and they use themselves as conduits. They are certainly crazy enough to get close to a bunch of enemies if it means dispatching them more efficiently. After all, why waste energy on projecting a spell at a precise location when you can get close and channel all the "juice" into the actual power of the explosion? If push comes to shove, the mage will just blink away, or slow the enemies to keep them at arm's length.

    You see Arcane the way you do because you are a mythic raider and you project your preferred tactical gameplay on the class itself. You imagine the mage attacking his enemies from far away while someone else is tanking them. I imagine the mage alone and surrounded by foes. They are coming from all directions, and they are almost by default in melee range because he is their only target. What could be better to deal with them than an exploding sphere of energy? A mana bomb with the mage himself as the nuclear core?

    I'd say frost has a much more tactical fantasy to it, if that's what floats your boat.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Coconut View Post
    Here's the thing about "enforcing" class fantasy... class fantasy is not perceived the same way by everyone.

    To me, arcane mages are risk takers. They channel incredible, raw powers that threaten to rapidly drain their energies. They use magic that is often unstable, from rotational spells to the exploding sheep we see in quests, and they use themselves as conduits. They are certainly crazy enough to get close to a bunch of enemies if it means dispatching them more efficiently. After all, why waste energy on projecting a spell at a precise location when you can get close and channel all the "juice" into the actual power of the explosion? If push comes to shove, the mage will just blink away, or slow the enemies to keep them at arm's length.

    You see Arcane the way you do because you are a mythic raider and you project your preferred tactical gameplay on the class itself. You imagine the mage attacking his enemies from far away while someone else is tanking them. I imagine the mage alone and surrounded by foes. They are coming from all directions, and they are almost by default in melee range because he is their only target. What could be better to deal with them than an exploding sphere of energy? A mana bomb with the mage himself as the nuclear core?

    I'd say frost has a much more tactical fantasy to it, if that's what floats your boat.
    I am probably failing at explaining myself. Flavour is one thing, class fantasy is another imho. People have wanted a Spellblade (or any other melee wizard) for the longest of time, but it is not happening and most likely never will. Because, despite the fact that melee mages do exist in some lore and to some extent, WoW is an MMO and as such it divides the classes into spellcasters and combatants. Spellcasters stay at range and combatants get up close.

    Having a melee caster makes little sense in a videogame because there are plenty of hybrid classes that already make use of the "combat magic" feature, such as DKs, Paladins, DHs and Enhancement Shamans and giving mages a melee spec would be just a copy of something that already belongs to other classes.

    Therefore, Mages are ranged classes. While many ranged classes have a couple of up close abilities, none of them are as vital as their main AoE nuke. To make a comparison, it is as if Hunters needed to step within 10yds range of their enemies to use Multi Shot, or Warlocks to use their Rain of Fire / Seed of Corruption / whateverdemolockuse.

    Hunter is a good example of why Arcane's toolkit makes little sense: Survival has been converted into a melee spec, and as a result all his main attacks are now usable in melee range, which makes perfect sense. If they gave him the same treatment that Arcane mages currently have, they would have made his main AoE nuke only usable while at more then 20yds from their target. Anyone can pretty much see how that would have made little sense, and yet, Arcane still works this way.
    It's like as if Blizzard forgot to update to modern (and better, gameplay wise) videogame conceptions. Back in the day, Hunters could only attack targets that were more that 10yds away from them, but that system got removed because it messed up things more then it provided a fun playstyle. Much like their arrows, the Soul Shards aswell as many other materials required to cast certain spells. It was all good back then, but then the game naturally evolved... except for this system, that somehow got forgotten along the way, mainly because of all the fuss that PvPers do about the ability (which is even funnier to me since Arcane was considered unplayable in PvP before Legion).

    That said, you like it, and it's fine. But it still does not make sense, gameplay wise, as it wouldn't make sense for a Hunter wielding a bow being forced to move into melee range in order to shoot more than one people at the same time.
    Last edited by The Archmage; 2018-01-31 at 10:50 PM.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by The Archmage View Post
    snip
    I'm not sure how the difference between flavor and class fantasy matters. Yes, flavor is going to include things that don't necessarily translate into gameplay, such as the exploding sheep, but class fantasy is still a matter of flavor. You just want a particular kind of flavor that you are trying to justify through practicality/consistence, but it doesn't really stick.

    Arcane having to AoE in melee range isn't the same as Survival having to AoE from 20yds... for multiple reasons. The first would be that your hypothetical hunter would be unable to single target and AoE from the same position, while an Arcane mage is perfectly capable of doing his single target from AE range. The second is that between Shimmer and Displacement the mage is highly mobile and can move between the two positions instantly, and if that isn't enough Chrono Shift can help him burst back into range too. Having to sometimes deal with a few melee-oriented mechanics such as cleaves and ground effects like the shit from the Sanguine affix is a small price to pay for the high mobility and powerful defensives (greater Invis, Ice Block, and the Barrier), as well as the ease with which you can execute the rotation (instant cast, only one extra button, 360 radius). The hunter doesn't really gain anything from the trade-off.

    As for pigeonholing mages into an exclusively ranged class, that is simply absurd. Both Fire and Frost have short range frontal cone AoE effects that, although they may not necessarily be part of their AoE rotation, are integral to their toolkit. All three specs also makes use of Frost Nova, a short range utility spell that mechanically works exactly like AE. I would say it's pretty integral to the mage class fantasy to have a set of abilities that come into play once enemies get too close. If this means that you sometimes have to get close to the enemy yourself because the use of those abilities against them is beneficial, that's just how game mechanics work. Ice Block is meant to save your life if something particularly nasty gets hurled your way, but sometimes you intentionally go in harm's way and use it because the mechanics require you to soak. Or you blink close to some mobs because the mechanics require you to root them.

    But the real argument from my perspective is that cone and sphere AoE spells are the most reliable and easy to use. Having to place a circle on the ground feels, to me, like an archaic mechanic, and I shun it as much as I can. It requires an extra click and it can easily snag on debris when playing in crammed spaces, either not going off or going off in the wrong place. When you have to repeatedly place it as part of a rotation (like the shaman's earthquake, or Blizzard), it gets extremely obnoxious. This mechanic carried over from the RTS, ffs. I shun it as much as I can, and considering you hate RoP, I would think you dislike it as well.

    AoE effects that go in a straight line, such as the Orbs, are problematic because you are dependent on the tank not to change position and they can easily miss (again, probably not a problem for you in mythic raiding, but otherwise a very common one). It's also nowhere near as great at dealing with multiple mobs in solo gameplay.

    Lastly, having a separate set of spells that act as sort of a permanent Unstable Magic effect, where you attack a single mob and it does splash damage around it, is mechanically the easiest to execute. Your challenge is being able to deal with the extra buttons instead of having to reactively deal with the melee stuff. It's also not as good as AE for soloing, because it's harder to pull mobs in range of the source of damage, and in group you still somewhat rely on the tank to group everything properly, whereas with AE it is your job to position yourself and you can adjust for a few mobs that refused to stick to the cluster. Another potential problem is when the main target of the rotation dies slightly faster than the rest, and you have to constantly switch at the end to keep up the damage... But I do admit, if I had to lose AE I would prefer something like MoP Nether Tempest instead (but then you would say that Arcane is not a DoT class, and that's also true).

    Ultimately, although I'm trying to, I simply don't understand why you hate AE so much. I am profoundly sorry on a personal level, but for my own selfish enjoyment of my absolute favorite spec.... I hope you don't get what you want here.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by The Archmage View Post
    Different and more tematic for a ranged caster does not necesseraly mean clunky. Look at an Elemental Shaman, for example: it's great AoE, visually stunning, completely ranged as it should be and easy enough to execute.

    Or they could let us work around the "energy explosion" theme though our mostly unused Supernova, transforming it into a debuff we apply on a target that makes it explode for damage each time we nuke him, or again into a toggable ability that lets our ST target nukes deal a % AoE damage to everyone for increased mana cost... there are many places they could explore.

    Literally everything in 2018 is more justifiable than spamming a single button the WHOLE time, let alone in melee range, which is not where we should be in the first place.
    I'd be more ok with AE if it gave us 75% damage reduction for 3 seconds, I don't like being on the chopping block in melee

  18. #38
    The issues with AE in melee in part arise because you're considered a ranged and get mechanics in raids and dungeons that affect only ranged or preferably ranged and thus bait stuff where it should not go and therefore cause problems with strategies. That classification could easily be changed like it was for healing monks due to fistweaving (for a time?) and holy paladins at some point I think.
    The survivability issues could in part be alleviated by giving back cauterize which arcane used to have in the beginning of legion. A leech or as proposed above damage reduction (though not so strong - 75% would make us a tank in effect) while AEing could also be considered.

    I think arcane currently feels fun to play and while you have the situation in raids where the dependence on RoP hinders us you're not rewarded enough when it works out. It is just an issue of how the numbers are balanced. If arcane was buffed a little more everyone would play it again and would accept the shortcomings for the great rewards.

    I fear that such a large overhaul of the spec will just lead to endless iterating of the spec like it was several times during legion and to being a shunned stepchild. I feel blizzard has not a very good track record of reworking specs lately from scratch (see also survival, demo, mm is very boring imho and was much more interesting in wod).
    The spec works just fine but the numbers are lacking its reward to be considered by ambitious groups and raid groups.
    Last edited by Deiae; 2018-02-01 at 03:18 AM.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by The Archmage View Post
    Different and more tematic for a ranged caster does not necesseraly mean clunky. Look at an Elemental Shaman, for example: it's great AoE, visually stunning, completely ranged as it should be and easy enough to execute.

    Or they could let us work around the "energy explosion" theme though our mostly unused Supernova, transforming it into a debuff we apply on a target that makes it explode for damage each time we nuke him, or again into a toggable ability that lets our ST target nukes deal a % AoE damage to everyone for increased mana cost... there are many places they could explore.

    Literally everything in 2018 is more justifiable than spamming a single button the WHOLE time, let alone in melee range, which is not where we should be in the first place.
    I mean, the easiest solution to Arcane Explosion is to have it go off at your target instead of your location. I don't know why they didn't just do that ages ago.
    Cheerful lack of self-preservation

  20. #40
    Deleted
    I loved Arcane in Legion so I'm worried about what it will become in BfA if I'm honest.

    I still mourn that Arcane Blast didn't get a projectile but it is what it is. Overall the animation update was great.

    When it comes to Rune of Power I agree it needs to go, it's clunky, and too good not to take, but also forces you to stand still which sucks. What I would replace it with I have no idea though.

    I would also make Mirror Image baseline, meaning it would always be used since I feel it fits Arcane perfectly, being all about illusions and whatnot.

    When it comes to AOE I still don't get why Arcane Explosion is an instant cast that goes off from the player, it's spammy and stuck in the past. I'd give it a cast time, a damage buff to compensate, longer range and have it go off from targeted enemy instead. I'd also make Tempest baseline and make Arcane Missiles hit multiple different targets if there are more than three, creating little explosions upon impact that deals aoe damage.

    In terms of single target I wouldn't change much I enjoy the status quo, I'd love an arcane beam but then we'd have two channeled abilities and I'm uncertain how well that would work an archons forge ability would be neat, after reaching 4 arcane charges 2 times the third time would overwhelm you and arcane power would consume you increasing damage done greatly for a time, that'd be neat, but overpowered is already that so I don't know if they'd overlap.
    Last edited by mmocb78b2e29a3; 2018-02-01 at 07:21 AM.

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