Need help with our guild DH (the sticky doesn't seem to get many responses)

[Merixa]

Hey there. I don't know anything about demon hunters in enough detail to help our current new one improve. I was hoping some experienced ones here could take a look at their logs and give some feedback. I will be showing them this thread to read through themself. They've been saying they have fury issues, and always seem to be fury starved.

Kaged: Havoc
Armory: https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-gb/ch...llscream/kaged

Logs: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Y2mrWPwZ1xcgQ9y6

Any help much appreciated!

[Zeeket]

Right off the bat his spec AND spell usage are beyond wrong, he seems to be playing the t20 build whilst using t21 as his set.

He should be using this build;
http://www.wowhead.com/talent-calc/d...ter/havoc/ct_c
With the 104 talent depending on the fight (although desperate instincts is a pretty safe all round bet).
Stop using blade dance single target its not worth it, start prioratising eye beam and chaos strike/annihilation spam, demons bite ONLY if crit rng and soul rng shafts him, once hes more comfortable with demonic he can start doing things like holding eye beam for soon to spawn adds, making sure eye beam doesnt overcaphis fury etc.

As for his gear he is WOEFULLY low on crit, dont know if its just gear rng or hes gearing wrong, the gem in his anger of the half giants should be crit not agi.

Finaly dont know what leggos he has but the met shoulders or eyebeam helm would be better than cindarias if he has other t21 pieces to keep his 4 set

[Merixa]

Right off the bat his spec AND spell usage are beyond wrong, he seems to be playing the t20 build whilst using t21 as his set.

He should be using this build;
http://www.wowhead.com/talent-calc/d...ter/havoc/ct_c
With the 104 talent depending on the fight (although desperate instincts is a pretty safe all round bet).
Stop using blade dance single target its not worth it, start prioratising eye beam and chaos strike/annihilation spam, demons bite ONLY if crit rng and soul rng shafts him, once hes more comfortable with demonic he can start doing things like holding eye beam for soon to spawn adds, making sure eye beam doesnt overcaphis fury etc.

As for his gear he is WOEFULLY low on crit, dont know if its just gear rng or hes gearing wrong, the gem in his anger of the half giants should be crit not agi.

Finaly dont know what leggos he has but the met shoulders or eyebeam helm would be better than cindarias if he has other t21 pieces to keep his 4 set

Thank you very much for the help! i will direct him to this immediately.

[Vitinariy]

As for his gear he is WOEFULLY low on crit, dont know if its just gear rng or hes gearing wrong, the gem in his anger of the half giants should be crit not agi.

I noticed that after the recent update my crit in armoury is 10% below my crit in the game. I checked with askmrrobot and it seems the same issue is true for this DH, so he's actually 44%. Still can be higher though.
I agree with everything else though.

[Caged]

Hello Zeeket,
Thanks for the reply. I have 4pc + Raddions Eye's + Demonic build. But it seems to be a massive DPS loss. As I look through Warcraft Logs pretty much most of the DH are T20 + CB till they get 960+ then they swap over
So I think that my Felreaper set is way too low to pull off a good Demonic build? Also I need a bit more Crit/mastery

Im changing the gem on Half Gaints and enchanting my other ring in a bit I have updated Armoury, but its saying 34% Crit its actually Crit 44% Haste 21% Mastery 33%

Thanks for any input, appreciate it

[Vitinariy]

Hello Zeeket,
Thanks for the reply. I have 4pc + Raddions Eye's + Demonic build. But it seems to be a massive DPS loss.

It should not be a massive loss. For example look at my very bad parce here - https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done

I definitely did not have 4pc, maybe not even 2pc back then. I did not have T20 either - I missed that tier completely. My gear was a mess cause I just grabbed the highest ilvl staff from M+ to catch up a bit. And I'm still doing roughly the same damage as you, although Delusions help a lot with that.

A week after with 4pc - https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...uras&source=92

And after that with slight gear changes and after finally getting the helm I easily moved to above 75 percentile.

[Zeeket]

Hello Zeeket,
Thanks for the reply. I have 4pc + Raddions Eye's + Demonic build. But it seems to be a massive DPS loss. As I look through Warcraft Logs pretty much most of the DH are T20 + CB till they get 960+ then they swap over
So I think that my Felreaper set is way too low to pull off a good Demonic build? Also I need a bit more Crit/mastery

Im changing the gem on Half Gaints and enchanting my other ring in a bit I have updated Armoury, but its saying 34% Crit its actually Crit 44% Haste 21% Mastery 33%

Thanks for any input, appreciate it

Fairly sure after the buff t21 got its a nuetral dps swap at similar ilvls to t20 and just starts pulling further ahead the more ilvl you get on it.

However if you have a good set of t20 then tou rwally need to use Delusions of Grandure (meta cdr shoulders) as it will allow you to push meta down to roughly 2 mins so you can stack nem, chaos blades and meta at the dame time.

Theres a fair bit of varience with t21 but its much less bursty than t20, so you may feel its less dps cos you wont be bursting as high in your opener but t20 drops off between ita cds where t21 will stay pretty consistant and with average to good soul rng it can be pretty high sustained dps.

Edit* theres 1 fight where t20 shines super well and thats kingaroth due to the "add" phase being on a 2 min timer, but even then a lot of players run t21 with chaos blades instead of demonic cos the t21 4 set is crazy strong

[Zilthy]

I don't know about that, needing to be 960. I switched from T20 (938 ilvl) to T21 (948 ilvl) at the time and my DPS went up on all fights. It took a little adjusting to play and changing to new opener, but I found it to be quite solid.

I do think the T21 build is even more crit dependent than T20 to perform though, have to be maximizing fury returned from chaos strikes to do more chaos strikes to generate more souls. So for T21 you really do want Cloak, Chest, Gloves, Legs and then *all* off pieces with crit on them. Getting the crit > 50% makes a big difference. Sure, T20 loves crit also, but for example, I have two DH. One is my geared raider, with a lot of crit. On my raider, I will only do 1 Demon's Bite for every 2.5 Chaos Strike/Annihilates. On my other DH, with less crit, it's more like 1 Demon's Bite for every 1.7 Chaos Strikes/Annihilates.

On the plus side, if you can get the tier legs (I would prioritize that) it's fairly easy to get shoulders with crit (crafted 935 shoulders) and if you have the gold and don't get them elsewhere, BOE bracers can usually be found in the AH. And make sure both rings have crit, and neck Mark of the Claw for more crit. Also use crit food (Hungry Magister) instead of feast.

With gear out of the way, it comes down to play and gaining and using fury effectively.

T21 opener is:

Pre-Pot Potion of Prolonged Power
Fel Rush in
Demon's Bite 1 - 2 times to get enough fury to be able to Eye Beam (but do not Eye Beam yet)
Nemesis
Fury of the Illidari
Eye Beam
Annihilate until out of Fury (Do not move around to gather souls, just stand there and Annihilate)
Metamorphosis
Eye Beam (Demon's Bite once if needed)

From there it goes down to normal rotation, move and collect souls as they appear (attacking while doing so, I am always just dancing around. If you cannot move while constantly attacking this build is not going to perform)

You mostly likely will not eye beam until you are out of meta unless you are lucky and get a lot of souls, if you have 20 seconds left on meta and can eye beam, do it again, but that does not happen overly often.

From there in the normal rotation you always want to Eye Beam as soon as it comes up, otherwise collecting more souls is a waste.

[Zeeket]

From there in the normal rotation you always want to Eye Beam as soon as it comes up, otherwise collecting more souls is a waste.

Not entirely true, there are times when holding eye beam and/or "banking" souls can be benificial, for example high command (mythic if stun grenades permit) you're better off holding eye beam for add spawns and transverly banking souls to guarantee an eyebeam for add spawns, by this i mean IF your eye beam is going to be off cd for add spawns just before change command happens you're better banking souls for the cdr so you have eye beam for the new bosses adds that spawn 20 seconds or so later.
Kingaroth is a good example of holding eye beam because that damage and haste buff is gunna be utilised much more on an add than burning it on the boss (obviously with8n reason dont be holding it for 30 second but 10s or so its prob worth holding)

[Caged]

What I meant by the iLVL 960+ was if you look at the warcraftlogs, the majority of DH are Chaos Blade build. until you look at the 960+ brackets then you see a lot more Demonic builds. That's why I said, do I need a higher iLVL in T21 to pull this off?

Zilthy, thanks so much for that, its exactly how I would like to run my DH

Thanks for all the input guys, really appreciate it

[Zeeket]

You shouldnt do no, those in that ilvl range where probably decked out in mythic t20 so they didnt swap till thier t21 equaled or surpassed it, t21 is a strong build so if you have it at or above your t20 set then using it will be better, mainly because your missing the shoulders that make t20 pop so with bis t21 leggos and a bit of practise youll find t21 better.
You gotta remember your playing a vastly different style with t21 so dont expect to instantly be miles better, you'll have to learn the spec, feel it out and get comfortable with it like you have the other build.

[Najja]

Yeah, definitely a few things you need to get accustomed to when playing Demonic. Feeling out when is best to use Eyebeam vs hold it, if/when you should pool souls, getting used to looking for souls that decided to spawn farther out than they do on average. Overall I say the spec is in a good place, it gets kinda dull when you don't spawn any souls for awhile, but other than that I like how it feels.

[Deleted]

T21 opener is:

Pre-Pot Potion of Prolonged Power
Fel Rush in
Demon's Bite 1 - 2 times to get enough fury to be able to Eye Beam (but do not Eye Beam yet)
Nemesis
Fury of the Illidari
Eye Beam
Annihilate until out of Fury (Do not move around to gather souls, just stand there and Annihilate)
Metamorphosis
Eye Beam (Demon's Bite once if needed)

I keep reading that, but why would you dump your fury and THEN meta? Given you use lego shoulders one should meta immediately after EB to reduce meta cd while dumping fury granted from eye beam, am i right? Or am i missing something

[Awyee]

I keep reading that, but why would you dump your fury and THEN meta? Given you use lego shoulders one should meta immediately after EB to reduce meta cd while dumping fury granted from eye beam, am i right? Or am i missing something

i think because meta resets EB cooldown, giving you another eyebeam and a shitton of fury to use once you're inside meta

[Lostprophet]

I keep reading that, but why would you dump your fury and THEN meta? Given you use lego shoulders one should meta immediately after EB to reduce meta cd while dumping fury granted from eye beam, am i right? Or am i missing something

there is no difference in doing either (other what u said if using delusions). In both, you loose a gcd (hard casting meta). When you do it, does not matter, so feel free to use what you prefer. You could also do following: prepot - FR - DBite - nem + at (if horde) - foti - EB - Anni + Dbite until u drop Meta and then hard cast meta + Eb instantly after. You should not move until the 2nd EB.

The opener also depends on the encounter. On High Command for example: prepot - FR - 2xdbite - EB - Hard cast meta - Anni. Hold everything else till add spawn, which is like 6s after pull. You now have everything rdy. When they spawn switch to the caster add - nem on it + foti + EB(with raddons equiped). kill of the caster and then back to the boss. 2nd nem also on the caster, rince - repeat.

A nice trick is following - Cast ur 2nd EB right before the setboni haste runs out - so you will have the boni during the full EB channel.

Conclusion: The Difference between all those openers are so minimal, so use what you most comfortable with.

I also wanna say that netherwalk in the 104 bracket is prolly the most used talent. Soulrend is mostly useless coz 30% is in most cases enough healing(depends on your gear orc). And desperate instinct can be handy but it will go in CD if triggered and not rdy when u may need it.

[Vitinariy]

I also wanna say that netherwalk in the 104 bracket is prolly the most used talent. Soulrend is mostly useless coz 30% is in most cases enough healing(depends on your gear orc). And desperate instinct can be handy but it will go in CD if triggered and not rdy when u may need it.

Soulrend is a godsend on Skittish weeks. Most of the time I over aggro and still can survive with the self healing that I get. And I love it in general in M+. I'm capped at around 18-19 though. I guess for higher keys the second big cd might be better to avoid 1-shots.

[Lostprophet]

Soulrend is a godsend on Skittish weeks. Most of the time I over aggro and still can survive with the self healing that I get. And I love it in general in M+. I'm capped at around 18-19 though. I guess for higher keys the second big cd might be better to avoid 1-shots.

I was mainly talking raiding But yes M+ Skittish - Soul Rend is fine. I always take netherwalk there too though. 30% leech also keeps me alive, even if I have aggro (+ blur).

[Ojocuervo]

there is no difference in doing either (other what u said if using delusions). In both, you loose a gcd (hard casting meta). When you do it, does not matter, so feel free to use what you prefer. You could also do following: prepot - FR - DBite - nem + at (if horde) - foti - EB - Anni + Dbite until u drop Meta and then hard cast meta + Eb instantly after. You should not move until the 2nd EB.

The opener also depends on the encounter. On High Command for example: prepot - FR - 2xdbite - EB - Hard cast meta - Anni. Hold everything else till add spawn, which is like 6s after pull. You now have everything rdy. When they spawn switch to the caster add - nem on it + foti + EB(with raddons equiped). kill of the caster and then back to the boss. 2nd nem also on the caster, rince - repeat.

A nice trick is following - Cast ur 2nd EB right before the setboni haste runs out - so you will have the boni during the full EB channel.

Conclusion: The Difference between all those openers are so minimal, so use what you most comfortable with.

I also wanna say that netherwalk in the 104 bracket is prolly the most used talent. Soulrend is mostly useless coz 30% is in most cases enough healing(depends on your gear orc). And desperate instinct can be handy but it will go in CD if triggered and not rdy when u may need it.

You can add death swep when adds spawn cause it will hit 4 targets, making a good damage; and you'll get that fury after pyro dies so.

[Ojocuervo]

there is no difference in doing either (other what u said if using delusions). In both, you loose a gcd (hard casting meta). When you do it, does not matter, so feel free to use what you prefer. You could also do following: prepot - FR - DBite - nem + at (if horde) - foti - EB - Anni + Dbite until u drop Meta and then hard cast meta + Eb instantly after. You should not move until the 2nd EB.

The opener also depends on the encounter. On High Command for example: prepot - FR - 2xdbite - EB - Hard cast meta - Anni. Hold everything else till add spawn, which is like 6s after pull. You now have everything rdy. When they spawn switch to the caster add - nem on it + foti + EB(with raddons equiped). kill of the caster and then back to the boss. 2nd nem also on the caster, rince - repeat.

A nice trick is following - Cast ur 2nd EB right before the setboni haste runs out - so you will have the boni during the full EB channel.

Conclusion: The Difference between all those openers are so minimal, so use what you most comfortable with.

I also wanna say that netherwalk in the 104 bracket is prolly the most used talent. Soulrend is mostly useless coz 30% is in most cases enough healing(depends on your gear orc). And desperate instinct can be handy but it will go in CD if triggered and not rdy when u may need it.

You can add death swep when adds spawn cause it will hit 4 targets, making a good damage; and you'll get that fury after pyro dies so.


Also, do you have a macro to not jumping at the time you press meta? I use "cast player metamorphosis" but stills do a little jump, grabbing souls i dont want to.

[Deleted]

I don't know about that, needing to be 960. I switched from T20 (938 ilvl) to T21 (948 ilvl) at the time and my DPS went up on all fights. It took a little adjusting to play and changing to new opener, but I found it to be quite solid.

I do think the T21 build is even more crit dependent than T20 to perform though, have to be maximizing fury returned from chaos strikes to do more chaos strikes to generate more souls. So for T21 you really do want Cloak, Chest, Gloves, Legs and then *all* off pieces with crit on them. Getting the crit > 50% makes a big difference. Sure, T20 loves crit also, but for example, I have two DH. One is my geared raider, with a lot of crit. On my raider, I will only do 1 Demon's Bite for every 2.5 Chaos Strike/Annihilates. On my other DH, with less crit, it's more like 1 Demon's Bite for every 1.7 Chaos Strikes/Annihilates.

On the plus side, if you can get the tier legs (I would prioritize that) it's fairly easy to get shoulders with crit (crafted 935 shoulders) and if you have the gold and don't get them elsewhere, BOE bracers can usually be found in the AH. And make sure both rings have crit, and neck Mark of the Claw for more crit. Also use crit food (Hungry Magister) instead of feast.

With gear out of the way, it comes down to play and gaining and using fury effectively.

T21 opener is:

Pre-Pot Potion of Prolonged Power
Fel Rush in
Demon's Bite 1 - 2 times to get enough fury to be able to Eye Beam (but do not Eye Beam yet)
Nemesis
Fury of the Illidari
Eye Beam
Annihilate until out of Fury (Do not move around to gather souls, just stand there and Annihilate)
Metamorphosis
Eye Beam (Demon's Bite once if needed)

From there it goes down to normal rotation, move and collect souls as they appear (attacking while doing so, I am always just dancing around. If you cannot move while constantly attacking this build is not going to perform)

You mostly likely will not eye beam until you are out of meta unless you are lucky and get a lot of souls, if you have 20 seconds left on meta and can eye beam, do it again, but that does not happen overly often.

From there in the normal rotation you always want to Eye Beam as soon as it comes up, otherwise collecting more souls is a waste.

I added a line to the last line

T21 opener is:

Pre-Pot Potion of Prolonged Power
Fel Rush in
Demon's Bite 1 - 2 times to get enough fury to be able to Eye Beam (but do not Eye Beam yet)
Nemesis
Fury of the Illidari
Eye Beam
Annihilate until out of Fury (Do not move around to gather souls, just stand there and Annihilate)
Metamorphosis
Eye Beam (Demon's Bite once if needed) <-------------------------------Dont use eye beam before the 8 sec haste buff has around 1 sec left. Haste buffs overwrite each other. If you got 5 sec left on haste buff and you cast EB it will be overwritte to 8 sec again, meaning you are losing couple of seconds of the haste buff. You can use addon to track haste buff