Destruction in m+ and Raids

[Cheze]

you can actually do quite a lot of aoe damage in m+ with alyss' and F+B; the problem is 1) mobs can't move much cause RoF has a small radius and 2) it's probably still less than affliction would do in the same situation.

which is basically destro's issue in a nutshell: it's a fine spec that does well in a lot of situations.... but man affliction is right there

[Uzkin]

Don't know from where he's getting that info, maybe he doesn't even play a warlock.

If you're referring to me then I guess you just have to assume less and L2R.

[avahle]

you can actually do quite a lot of aoe damage in m+ with alyss' and F+B; the problem is 1) mobs can't move much cause RoF has a small radius and 2) it's probably still less than affliction would do in the same situation.

which is basically destro's issue in a nutshell: it's a fine spec that does well in a lot of situations.... but man affliction is right there

It's less not just than aff; we can't compete with many other specs. Hunters, Arms/Fury Warrs, Ret Palas, Arcane/Fire mages, WW monks, Rogues all do better. There is a reason we are in the bottom for any raid fights that are constant AoE.

[Deleted]

I do absolutley fine in m+ as destro, you get the odd group who complain and question why your destro, but they soon pipe down when your above them on damage. Take f n b with cdf, I even run with supremacy. The only time I feel my damage is low is on packs of 3 - 4 mobe. Anything 1/2 and above 4 your damage will be very good. St is good, 2 target is good and sustained aoe is good. Also you have shadowfury which comes in very handy. I hang around 15/20 keys

As for raiding destro is good to very good on all bosses bar eonar. Yoir not gonna top every boss but your gonna be upper middle to top 3 on most apart eonar

Destro is in a very decent place compared to most other specs in game...it's issue is that affliction is also a warlock spec and it's over tuned. If you main destro you will probably be surprised

[Challenge]

If you're referring to me then I guess you just have to assume less and L2R.

Its a pretty solid assumption when you claim destruction and demo are the bottom 2 worst mythic + specs LOL when in reality you just compare them to how broken affliction and assume the former 2 are useless instead of comparing them to other specs outside of warlock.

[ydraw]

It's less not just than aff; we can't compete with many other specs. Hunters, Arms/Fury Warrs, Ret Palas, Arcane/Fire mages, WW monks, Rogues all do better. There is a reason we are in the bottom for any raid fights that are constant AoE.

Actually BM hunters are the bottom on AOE fights.

MM hunters though are very strong on AOE, agreed.

[Uzkin]

Its a pretty solid assumption when you claim destruction and demo are the bottom 2 worst mythic + specs LOL when in reality you just compare them to how broken affliction and assume the former 2 are useless instead of comparing them to other specs outside of warlock.

You do indeed fail at reading comprehension. I'm not presenting any subjective opinions nor anecdotal evidence from personal experience. Nor am I comparing destro or demo solely to affli but to all the 24 dps specs in the game.

[Lucrece]

If aff didn't exist it'd be fine just fine in dungeons and pgood in raid, but aff exists.

Its a fucking nightmare pugging right now if you aren't aff, not sure how much that affects you.

If we’re being honest, pugging has always been a fucking nightmare. At least we’re not melee, who have it the worst by far in getting spots.

[Baconeggcheese]

If we’re being honest, pugging has always been a fucking nightmare. At least we’re not melee, who have it the worst by far in getting spots.

As aff its extremely easy to get in groups (providing you have the raider score or what have you) as anything else its like pulling teeth. And I can't say I blame the people making groups for that.

[Challenge]

You do indeed fail at reading comprehension. I'm not presenting any subjective opinions nor anecdotal evidence from personal experience. Nor am I comparing destro or demo solely to affli but to all the 24 dps specs in the game.

Link evidence proving your claim then. The 2 raid fights with sustained grouped AoE demonology has literally crushed (Botanist and Mistress). Being the second top preforming spec of both fights. Dungeons put a lot more emphasis on sustained AoE than raids do. Please show me the evidence that says demo and destruction are the lowest preforming specs in mythic +.

If you arnt going to link anything, dont bother replying since everyone already knows you're full of shit.

[Biomega]

The 2 raid fights with sustained grouped AoE demonology has literally crushed (Botanist and Mistress). Being the second top preforming spec of both fights.

Ok, so, technically you're not wrong that Demo is the 2nd-best performing Warlock spec on those two fights.

Top 100 Warlocks for Botanist is 100 Affliction (first Demo is #131).

Top 100 Warlocks for Mistress is 90 Affliction 8 Demonology 2 Destruction (highest Demo being #22, highest Destro #29).

I guess I'm just not sure that "has literally crushed" is how I would personally choose to describe Demo here, even if not directly comparing to Aff. But you do you.

[Challenge]

Ok, so, technically you're not wrong that Demo is the 2nd-best performing Warlock spec on those two fights.

Top 100 Warlocks for Botanist is 100 Affliction (first Demo is #131).

Top 100 Warlocks for Mistress is 90 Affliction 8 Demonology 2 Destruction (highest Demo being #22, highest Destro #29).

I guess I'm just not sure that "has literally crushed" is how I would personally choose to describe Demo here, even if not directly comparing to Aff. But you do you.

The discussion at hand stems from viability. The person i responded to claims demo and desturction are respectively the worst 2 specs for mythic + dungeons. Popularity has absolutely nothing to do with it. Affliction would still be more popular than destro and demo even if it did equal or slightly less damage because it

-Provides unparalleled sustain to itself, making it insanely broken for progression and cheese when dropping healers on farm
-Much more gear friendly by not be being hard locked to haste> ilvl
-Much easier to play and more forgiving on mistakes

Also, its not "technically". Its literally. Demonology was literally the best spec DPS wise on the 2 fights that require sustained group aoe specifically.

So what the fuck is your point here?

[Biomega]

Demonology was literally the best spec DPS wise on the 2 fights that require sustained group aoe specifically.

And by best you mean except for the spec who's got 95+% of top logs. That's neither technically nor literally, but I can tell from your posts so far that you're not nearly as interested in precision as you are in being irate and adversarial. But again, that's cool. You do you. From now on I'll just sit back and watch, that's a lot more entertaining.

So what the fuck is your point here?

I think you've made my case here better than I could have, so my point is fairly self-evident to any observer. And I do admit, I was fishing for a reaction.

[Challenge]

I can tell from your posts so far that you're not nearly as interested in precision as you are in being irate and adversarial

Rich coming from you.

Warlock is one of the least-played classes. One spec of one of the least-played classes is not going to make or break it for them. Particularly because the number of players actually quitting over it is probably minuscule. Why invest design resources into such a niche demographic? They'll do the bare minimum to keep up some semblance of "we hear you, we're working on it" and that'll be it. There is little incentive for them to put in a lot of work to redesign Demo, and so they won't. Not when there's PvP and island minigames to work on instead.

And I do admit, I was fishing for a reaction.

So you're a troll then. Good to know I can ignore any other worthless garbage you post, thanks for the heads up.

[Biomega]

Rich coming from you.

It's true. I do like to spice things up by calling others people retarded in every second paragraph, and labeling anything I don't agree with as delusional garbage.

Wait. Now you've got me confused. Was that what I'm doing, or what you're doing?

So you're a troll then. Good to know I can ignore any other worthless garbage you post, thanks for the heads up.

I like to think it's more sophisticated than that. I'm not looking for MEANINGLESS reactions, I'm just trying to help other readers understand who people are. So they have an easier time choosing who to heed and who to ridicule. A public service, really, the humorous needles and poke-the-bear horseplay are just some sprinkles on top of an otherwise wholesome meal.

But look now what you've made me do again! I promised I was going to stay quiet, but some morsels are just too juicy to ignore.

To return back to topic, though, I think that by and large OBJECTIVE metrics - whichever way they may point - are only a partial indicator of things needing to change. What's often more important is SUBJECTIVE metrics. While of course one would ideally lead to the other, people being people means that is not always the case. And you can have all the evidence you like, if people don't BELIEVE it or don't CARE then, oh shucks, you're still in a hot mess. There's been lots of examples where Blizzard was trying to present a rational argument, and was powerless against the tide of people's perception. Sometimes persuasion works (or simply time) but there's plenty of cases where they simply cave and provide what the vox populi appears to be demanding - misrepresented and misguided though it may be.

To that end, even if Demo is objectively performing adequately (and is simply overshadowed by the Kaneda-like mutant monstrosity Affliction has become) that doesn't help if people simply reject it. For whatever reason. Doubly so now the cat is out of the bag - while they could conceivably go ahead with minimal changes, they've already announced they will be doing more. To renege at this point, regardless of the actual result, would just land them in another public perception nightmare.

Hence my earlier argument: their focus is going to be on appearances. By that I don't mean the aesthetics of Demo, but a demonstration that they're hearing "player concerns" and giving Demo a new coat of (mechanical) paint. I don't expect it to be done with the thoroughness and sophistication deeper class changes would require, though, for the mentioned reason of cost effectiveness. I expect it to LOOK good on paper, but to come riddled with a whole new set of problems. That's sort of inherent in the issue - there's too many disparate opinions and too many design philosophies and design directions. Balancing it all out is a very daunting task. I'm not saying it's impossible, by the way. I believe it could be done. I just don't think it will, because it would take too much design time for something that is a fairly niche aspect of the game. As always, positive surprises are welcome, but not expected.

I don't entirely blame Blizzard for the mess, by the way. Players being irrational children is a large part of it, as evidenced by contributors to the discussion who think "you're retarded" is the epitome of civilized discourse. Not pointing fingers, because I don't need to. There's enough candidates that a casually thrown dart will go through ten targets any which way it lands. That's just a reality of large audiences, and of the target demographic. And it's not a problem specific to Warlocks, or Demonology, it's just been subject to a lot of feedback loops over the years where we've sort of become stuck in this cycle of changes that oscillate from crippling to neglect, and the accompanying rhetoric only serves to reinforce the situation. Probably little you can do at this point but sit back and watch the show. I fully intend to.

[Uzkin]

Link evidence proving your claim then. The 2 raid fights with sustained grouped AoE demonology has literally crushed (Botanist and Mistress). Being the second top preforming spec of both fights. Dungeons put a lot more emphasis on sustained AoE than raids do. Please show me the evidence that says demo and destruction are the lowest preforming specs in mythic +.

If you arnt going to link anything, dont bother replying since everyone already knows you're full of shit.

L2R, m8. L2R. You're making a complete fool out of yourself.

[Challenge]

It's true. I do like to spice things up by calling others people retarded in every second paragraph, and labeling anything I don't agree with as delusional garbage.

Wait. Now you've got me confused. Was that what I'm doing, or what you're doing?

Please link me where im calling people retarded every second paragraph. I dont label anything I disagree with delusional. I label feelcraft without backed evidence as delusional. Notice how whenever I debate something I can bring statistical evidence rather than "nuh uh its cuz i said so xd". Stop trying to play like you're a victim.

A newish player wants info on whether a not X spec is viable besides affliction, yet a bunch of ignorant mongoloids like @Uzkin tell him its not viable/"the worst out of all dps spec" when it actually isnt, you bet I'm going to call it delusional.

[Aestereal]

Please link me where im calling people retarded every second paragraph.

...yet a bunch of ignorant mongoloids like @Uzkin...

There it is, in the second paragraph.

You cannot actually be this stupid. You actually can't. You're actually trolling or you're so blind to the game you've been playing for the past 2 years that I'm convinced you're not actually a human but a potato trying to cosplay as a human.

You walked into this.

More on topic...destro is viable for most content. I'm starting to push keys into the +20 range, and it's feeling fine. I'm competing with our Affliction warlock and dying less due to better gearing choices. I'm doing solid DPS in the raid group I'm in, and I feel fine with the spec. If you're not pushing the most elite of content as soon as it comes out, play the spec you want.

[Challenge]

There it is, in the second paragraph.



You walked into this.

More on topic...destro is viable for most content. I'm starting to push keys into the +20 range, and it's feeling fine. I'm competing with our Affliction warlock and dying less due to better gearing choices. I'm doing solid DPS in the raid group I'm in, and I feel fine with the spec. If you're not pushing the most elite of content as soon as it comes out, play the spec you want.

Didnt realize retarded was the same word as stupid/ignorant/potato. Now I know, thank you

[FertsBlert]

Didnt realize retarded was the same word as stupid/ignorant/potato. Now I know, thank you

I doubt you were referring to someone of east asian descent with the term mongoloid which is a now offensive term for down syndrome one of the effects of which is intellectual disability or in other words retardation.

And potato is a commonly used term to refer to someone who suffers from down syndrome as well so yeah you were literally calling people retards.