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  1. #341
    The Unstoppable Force Friendlyimmolation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dopplegager View Post
    Aren't there some numbers that have been estimated from lore?

    90% of the high elves were killed from Arthas' attack. 9% of those became blood elves and 1% stayed with the alliance. So the break downs of the survivors/expats.

    The total population of blood elves was enough to warrant a race. Now what percent of the blood elves became void elves? I doubt more than 11% of them did which is what it would take just to reach the population of high elves. Void elf population is still likely smaller than that of the high elves.

    So what are we at? 8.5% blood elves. 1% high elves. 0.5% void elves?
    They were described as a small squadron, I doubt it's even 1% of the Sin'dorei.
    Quote Originally Posted by WoWKnight65 View Post
    That's same excuse from you and so many others on this website and your right some of threads do bully high elf fans to a point where they might end up losing their minds to a point of a mass shooting.
    Holy shit lol

  2. #342
    Pandaren Monk The Iron Fist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldielocks View Post
    Nah. High Elves account for 1% of the original Quel'thalas population. Not enough to send adventurers out into the world. Not to mention that from a game design perspective, having two races look really similar on opposite factions is a terrible idea.
    Population is no longer a viable argument for playable races or classes. Demon Hunters number in the hundreds. Many have died and Illidan hasn't been around to make more. Can Void Elves have babies? Are Blood Elves just going to keep leaking out of Silvermoon to reinforce Void Elf numbers? Lightforged Draenei number small enough to fit onto a single ship (a couple hundred most?) and many of them died in Antorus and on Argus. The Nightborne are one city of elves that just had over half their population wiped out.

    Also, as the Void Elves and Draenei have proven, Blizzard can conjure races from nowhere or justify in the writing that there are more here or there. They could even use the Caverns of Time as a tool like they did for WoD. I'm not saying those are good solutions but Blizzard basically doesn't care about its lore at this point. They are full-fledged corporate mode now and they care about one thing and one thing only: Dosh. Cash. Money. Bling bling. $$

  3. #343
    The Unstoppable Force Friendlyimmolation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Iron Fist View Post
    High Elves will eventually be playable. They are the most requested Allied Race by a significant margin on any poll they are included in. Too much $$ for Blizzard to pass up. The hints are everywhere. High Elf Sorceress' in the Mage Quarter. High Elves in the Telogrus Rift with Blood Elves. On the quest where you're with Alleria to unlock Void Elves, note that before the scenario if you see another player questing Alleria shows up as a High Elf... not a Void Elf. Consistent Silver Covenant development from WotLK through Legion... Ion never said they wouldn't be playable, only that High Elves are "pretty much" Blood Elves. 5 minutes or so earlier in the interview he called Hallows End by Halloween. He isn't a lore guy; he's an X's and O's guy.
    @Aucald You cannot separate the High Elf and Void Elf topic for multiple reasons. The biggest one is that Void Elves are High Elves, because Blood Elves are High Elves. That however does not mean that High Elves are necessarily Blood Elves or Void Elves. Blizzard has done a terrible job telling the story (if you could even call it that) of Void Elves and because of that people are going to cling to the straws of information they do have.
    This entire argument falls apart because at every time it should have worked in your eyes, it does not. If $$$ was the goal, they would be playable a second time on the Alliance side.

    As always though, your arguments boil down to "I am right because I saw so" and building off linking imaginary dots.
    Quote Originally Posted by WoWKnight65 View Post
    That's same excuse from you and so many others on this website and your right some of threads do bully high elf fans to a point where they might end up losing their minds to a point of a mass shooting.
    Holy shit lol

  4. #344
    Pandaren Monk The Iron Fist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Friendlyimmolation View Post
    This entire argument falls apart because at every time it should have worked in your eyes, it does not. If $$$ was the goal, they would be playable a second time on the Alliance side.

    As always though, your arguments boil down to "I am right because I saw so" and building off linking imaginary dots.
    Have all the BfA Allied Races been announced? Do you know something the rest of us don't? Do you have an inside connection? No. Then you have no better idea than me or anyone else. Just because they weren't offered in the initial races does not mean they won't be added later. The very fact that Allied Races were added was $$. Its WoW version of the loot box. You know how many people are paying $25 just to race change? Its insane. Go look at the official forums.

  5. #345
    Quote Originally Posted by The Iron Fist View Post
    Have all the BfA Allied Races been announced? Do you know something the rest of us don't? Do you have in inside connection? No. Then you have no better idea than me or anyone else. Just because they weren't offered in the initial races does not mean they won't be added later. The very fact that Allied Races were added was $$. Its WoW version of the loot box. You know how many people are paying $25 just to race change? Its insane. Go look at the official forums.
    Ion said that High Elves are playable... in Horde.

  6. #346
    Pandaren Monk Melsiren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Iron Fist View Post
    Have all the BfA Allied Races been announced? Do you know something the rest of us don't? Do you have an inside connection? No. Then you have no better idea than me or anyone else. Just because they weren't offered in the initial races does not mean they won't be added later. The very fact that Allied Races were added was $$. Its WoW version of the loot box. You know how many people are paying $25 just to race change? Its insane. Go look at the official forums.
    Do you have anything lore-related to bring to this discussion?
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrashi View Post
    High elf fans are basically flat-earth society of warcraft lore.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Alleria Windrunner View Post
    I AM the victim.

  7. #347
    The Unstoppable Force Friendlyimmolation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Iron Fist View Post
    Have all the BfA Allied Races been announced? Do you know something the rest of us don't? Do you have an inside connection? No. Then you have no better idea than me or anyone else. Just because they weren't offered in the initial races does not mean they won't be added later. The very fact that Allied Races were added was $$. Its WoW version of the loot box. You know how many people are paying $25 just to race change? Its insane. Go look at the official forums.
    Again, if all they cared about was money, they wouldn't have bothered making void elves, which were made to distinguish faction playable Thasslassian elves.
    Quote Originally Posted by WoWKnight65 View Post
    That's same excuse from you and so many others on this website and your right some of threads do bully high elf fans to a point where they might end up losing their minds to a point of a mass shooting.
    Holy shit lol

  8. #348
    Titan Wildberry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Iron Fist View Post
    You can't really have a serious conversation related to the Alliance or High Elves with Friendlyimmolation, guys. He is a massive Horde and Blood Elf fanboy who handwaves, strawmans and headcanons to his hearts desire. There is not a whole lot of rational or objective going on in his own world. Just wasting your time.
    Come on, I support High Elves, but this is just a smug signature-tier post. There are decent arguments for High Elves; you've made like, one, and you managed to bungle that, too.

  9. #349
    Pandaren Monk The Iron Fist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    Ion said that High Elves are playable... in Horde.
    No he didn't. Just because Ion says something doesn't make it gospel #1 and #2 you're misinterpreting what he said. There is nuance in language. What he said was that "High Elves are pretty much Blood Elves" which in noncommittal lawyer speak. He has also cited before in interviews that he doesn't know much about the lore. The guy ran Elitist Jerks and was in a top raiding guild. Not many of those types know or care about lore.

  10. #350
    Quote Originally Posted by The Iron Fist View Post
    Population is no longer a viable argument for playable races or classes. Demon Hunters number in the hundreds. Many have died and Illidan hasn't been around to make more. Can Void Elves have babies? Are Blood Elves just going to keep leaking out of Silvermoon to reinforce Void Elf numbers? Lightforged Draenei number small enough to fit onto a single ship (a couple hundred most?) and many of them died in Antorus and on Argus. The Nightborne are one city of elves that just had over half their population wiped out.
    Your point about DHs isn't right. They start out before we killed Illidan in TBC. The same concept goes for DKs; they start out in the beginning of Wrath, even to this day. Their population isn't comparable to High Elves.

    Giving a race a starting zone locks them to a certain point in time, meaning that population numbers won't matter since lorewise the player is amongst the first to become adventurers. I don't see that happening with High Elves.

  11. #351
    Quote Originally Posted by Doomchicken View Post
    They have a backstory. It's just clear you paid absolutely zero attention and decided to make a thread proving your ignorance instead.
    *They have a shoehorning, not a backstory.

  12. #352
    Pandaren Monk The Iron Fist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildberry View Post
    Come on, I support High Elves, but this is just a smug signature-tier post. There are decent arguments for High Elves; you've made like, one, and you managed to bungle that, too.
    I'm not pro-High Elf is probably why you haven't seen me arguing for them. It's just that his arguments against them are ridiculous and completely fanboy in nature. His view on the Alliance/Horde and Blood Elves is completely black and white. If you've seen the amount of back and forth we've had over the past year or two on this forum, perhaps you would better understand why I said what I said.

  13. #353
    The Unstoppable Force Friendlyimmolation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Iron Fist View Post
    No he didn't. Just because Ion says something doesn't make it gospel #1 and #2 you're misinterpreting what he said. There is nuance in language. What he said was that "High Elves are pretty much Blood Elves" which in noncommittal lawyer speak. He has also cited before in interviews that he doesn't know much about the lore. The guy ran Elitist Jerks and was in a top raiding guild. Not many of those types know or care about lore.
    Whatever the lead game dev says is lore unless it is changed later. Later on in that video, he goes on to say there are no large populations of high elves left, nor areas where they would be sending adventures . None of this has changed since the last threads that popped up because of this.
    Quote Originally Posted by WoWKnight65 View Post
    That's same excuse from you and so many others on this website and your right some of threads do bully high elf fans to a point where they might end up losing their minds to a point of a mass shooting.
    Holy shit lol

  14. #354
    Titan Wildberry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalorakk View Post
    *They have a shoehorning, not a backstory.
    Don't bother, people who actually defend the Void Elf story at this point are the same people who think that two characters acknowledging major drama between them somehow resolves it (ie, lowbrow GoT fans).

    The fact that there was a hint at this garbage fire a patch before is enough for these wonderfully intelligent folks.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by The Iron Fist View Post
    If you've seen the amount of back and forth we've had over the past year or two on this forum, perhaps you would better understand why I said what I said.
    I constantly read Friendly's posts, he's really not one for strawmanning, and headcanon.

  15. #355
    Pandaren Monk The Iron Fist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldielocks View Post
    Your point about DHs isn't right. They start out before we killed Illidan in TBC. The same concept goes for DKs; they start out in the beginning of Wrath, even to this day. Their population isn't comparable to High Elves.

    Giving a race a starting zone locks them to a certain point in time, meaning that population numbers won't matter since lorewise the player is amongst the first to become adventurers. I don't see that happening with High Elves.
    Did you miss the part in the DH starting quests where when you come back through the sargerite portal there is only a handful of Demon Hunters left and they are all imprisoned by Maiev? Illidan trained all of them. There has been no one out there to train more as all but one Demon Hunter to our knowledge was imprisoned (Altruis).

  16. #356
    Quote Originally Posted by The Iron Fist View Post
    Did you miss the part in the DH starting quests where when you come back through the sargerite portal there is only a handful of Demon Hunters left and they are all imprisoned by Maiev? Illidan trained all of them. There has been no one out there to train more as all but one Demon Hunter to our knowledge was imprisoned (Altruis).
    That doesn't mean anything. The player is one of the few trapped in the Vault, but that doesn't mean that it invalidates all the other Demon Hunters that exist. There are tons of Demon Hunter NPCs walking around Fel Hammer. There are Illdari stands all over the Broken Isles. Where did they all come from?

  17. #357
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    Quote Originally Posted by AwkwardSquirtle View Post
    I'd argue that something new actually requires more inspiration than simply letting you play something established..
    Not necessarily. Pandaren weren't a new name so to speak. Blizzard had to figure out their entire backstory. And they were given a rather rich one. Void elves on the other hand have five minutes of back story which is: the void can be controlled now because reasons.

  18. #358
    Pandaren Monk The Iron Fist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildberry View Post
    I constantly read Friendly's posts, he's really not one for strawmanning, and headcanon.
    Then you don't know what headcanon is evidently. Everything he posts related to Alliance is from one perspective and there is no other way to interpret it (ie; evil). He does the same with High Elves and Blood Elves. When you make a good point, instead of address it he misdirects. You can't have dialogue with him. Everything is a debate. Enough on him and on you. Moving on...

    Void Elves are just a lore abomination. Anyone who cares about lore in this game should be very worried with the direction Allied Races and the impact on the lore they will have. I have a bad feeling, as evidenced by Void Elves, that there is going to be a lot of shoehorning. The lore community needs to hold Blizzards feet to the fire if they care about it otherwise its going to be completely compromised for money and gameplay reasons.

  19. #359
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    Quote Originally Posted by Friendlyimmolation View Post
    Bravo, the Night elves are part of the Alliance, they answer to the Alliance, and Alliance which just spat at their offer of friendship.
    Headcanon.

    Quote Originally Posted by Friendlyimmolation View Post
    That means absolutely nothing, they sent a spy pretending to be an ambassador, they never actually wanted to negotiate.
    Headcanon.

    Quote Originally Posted by Friendlyimmolation View Post
    These guys killed Garithos, the guy that imprisoned their prince and tried to kill some of the remaining strongest members of their race.
    Ehm, no, that was Varimathras. Should Silvermoon ally with the Burning Legion next? Oh, wait, they did.

    Quote Originally Posted by Friendlyimmolation View Post
    Humans that killed the ones who made themselves an enemy of Quel'thalas.
    ... They are literally the same effin' humans. Djeezes, what is wrong with you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Friendlyimmolation View Post
    being ignorant or just ignoring lore doesn't make it "lollore"
    Sure, because a nature-loving druid who has never set foot on the Eastern Kingdom introducing a race of undead creatures he has never seen before to a Warchief who has fled to another continent from these exact same people's concentration camps makes perfect sense, right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Friendlyimmolation View Post
    Considering Alliance aligned forces lead the purge, of course they fucking blame the Alliance.
    Oh, right, so in this case it matters that part of Dalaran was Alliance aligned ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Friendlyimmolation View Post
    You mean the Shattered Sun Offensive did.
    ... but in this case it doesn't matter that part of the Shattered Sun was Alliance aligned.

    Those are some hilarious double standards.

    Quote Originally Posted by Friendlyimmolation View Post
    They didn't want to teach humans magic, they used the humans as meatshields against the trolls,
    Headcanon.

    Quote Originally Posted by Friendlyimmolation View Post
    they formed the council of Tirisfall because they realized they had to police human use of magic and eventually pulling out of the Alliance the moment they could.
    Not even headcanon. Just pure bullshit. They formed the Council of Tirisfall because demons happened.

    Quote Originally Posted by Friendlyimmolation View Post
    The overwhelming majority of the High elves wanted nothing to do with the Alliance,
    Headcanon, and constantly shown not to be the case.

    Quote Originally Posted by Friendlyimmolation View Post
    I know you are biased, but learn your lore guy.
    That's friggin' hilarious coming from someone who gets one thing after the other wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Friendlyimmolation View Post
    Their Alliance was never that close, the average elf was fine being alone in Quel'thalas.
    Headcanon. Also, human-elf alliance going back literal millennia.

    Quote Originally Posted by Friendlyimmolation View Post
    They only joined the war each time when it personally effected them.
    They didn't join the war because they didn't take the Scourge seriously. Nobody did, until it was too late.

    So, yeah, headcanon once more.

    Quote Originally Posted by Friendlyimmolation View Post
    Alleria having sex with a human doesn't equal the entire race being friends.
    Nobody made that argument, but hey.

    Quote Originally Posted by Friendlyimmolation View Post
    Just incase you try to dismiss Garithos as irrelevant cuz "old Alliance"
    Ah, well, in that case the Alliance should just burn down Quel'Thalas, since Kael'Thas allying with Kil'Jaiden clearly means Silvermoon is still in league with the Burning Legion and cannot be trusted, right?

  20. #360
    The Unstoppable Force Friendlyimmolation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Iron Fist View Post
    Then you don't know what headcanon is evidently. Everything he posts related to Alliance is from one perspective and there is no other way to interpret it (ie; evil). He does the same with High Elves and Blood Elves. When you make a good point, instead of address it he misdirects. You can't have dialogue with him. Everything is a debate. Enough on him and on you. Moving on...

    Void Elves are just a lore abomination. Anyone who cares about lore in this game should be very worried with the direction Allied Races and the impact on the lore they will have. I have a bad feeling, as evidenced by Void Elves, that there is going to be a lot of shoehorning. The lore community needs to hold Blizzards feet to the fire if they care about it otherwise its going to be completely compromised for money and gameplay reasons.
    Correcting you on lore is not misdirecting, nor is pointing out obvious flaws in your lines of logic regarding this topic you return to again and again.
    Quote Originally Posted by WoWKnight65 View Post
    That's same excuse from you and so many others on this website and your right some of threads do bully high elf fans to a point where they might end up losing their minds to a point of a mass shooting.
    Holy shit lol

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