Sylvanas vs Alleria

[Rathbourne]

Baine remark could have very well been a literary device to emphasize how strong he is. Given how he did not break anything in the end, it's hard to to use it as a definitive proof of anything about Sylvanas.

The Baine remark was said from Sylvanas' point of view though.She was the one who realized that if Baine really wanted it he cud snap her like a twig.Not surprising considering he is a 10 foot,800-1000 pound humanoid of pure muscle,but it still shows her body is not insanely durable.It is probably strong,considering she ripped an animal apart with her bear hands in rage and also tanked a hit from Genn Greymane,but nowhere near something like a Tauren.

However physical endurance may not be enough when dealing with a primal force like the void.In the end it kinda depends on what exactly Alleria can do with the void....

[Whitedragon]

Alleria got that dark naaru power going on which we haven't seen the full extent of. Sure Sylvanas instakilled like 4-5 rando soldiers but what character hasn't at this point?

Hell my pally kills groups of 10-15 rando's at a time without going below 95% hp

[Terongor]

I'm fairly certain that, during the Tides of Darkness Novel, it was stated that Alleria was most skilled than Sylvanas, yet handed down Sylvanas the mantle of Ranger General was she was both the Second Child, as well as the second most Experienced, all of which while joining Turalyon.

Oh, and yes, i'm not excusing Tyrande. I'm mostly excusing Alleria, since she knows Tactics and at least knows how to Wield a Sword, unlike Mrs. Purp holi grill over there.

And, if i'm wrong, she only spent a short time in Prison (Though, that's what i've read). But, even if she did spend a long time in Prison, was she stripped of her Armor? Did she lose great Experience? Cause, apparently, judging by the Argus BS, she aided us in defeating big ass Demons, she ate the HEART of both a Void Big Boi as well as a Fallen Naaru, and she and Turalyon aided us in the push against the Demons back at Antorus.

She first imprisisoned in Niskara soon after that she was imprisoned by X'era. It had to happen before WoD atleast because of the Turalyons message which told us about Gul'dan being one of the leaders Legion and they didn't know at that point about Gul'dan when she was imprisoned so BtDP happened in year 8 legion 32-33 so about 25 years 1000/25= 40. Before happenings of Wod which started in 30 so 3×40= 120 years of imprisoment at minimal. Most professional archers lose their peak skills if they don't train even in a year and at that have to train many months to gain those skills back. So she would have his experience, but physically she would be really rusty. Also she aided us in defeating she didn't do much alone and always had atleast locus-walkers help.

Also it was never stated in Tides of Darkness there where some sentences thst could have being interpeted as that you it would still be reading between the lines.

[Katsutomai]

I can't honestly truly decide. We would need to see what Alleria is actually capable of with her Void powers.

[Stooned]

I don't think Sylvanas alone was responsible for the soldiers Anduin raised and/or healed - many of those probably were injured in fighting the Horde infantry on the field of the battle. or from arrow-fire from the ramparts. Her contribution to the battle was impressive enough without embellishment: destroying an entire siege tower with compliment, and landing and killing what appeared to be 6-7 footmen with a single blow of her Shadow abilities.

As for a one-on-one duel between Sylvanas and Alleria, that's really hard to say. We don't much about the extent of either person's powers and both are very powerful, highly specialized, and utterly committed in the face of battle. I don't think Alleria's Void abilities are a hard-check for Sylvanas in any sense, nor do I think Sylvanas' Banshee nature is a hard-check for Alleria's powers. As in most of these hypothetical conflicts I would say you're looking at a roughly 50/50 shot - whoever gains initiative, is favored by luck, or is able to exploit a discovered weakness is going to be your winner. They are pretty evenly matched.

A true authority steps into this. Thanks again Aucald!

[Mehrunes]

Her silence is a scream. Which means it travels at the speed of sound. The Light travels at the speed of light(duh) and the Void is on par with the Light and is it's eternal nemesis. These are the primordial energies of all existence. In fact black holes are so powerful that not even Light can escape them. There is a reason why the Light sees the Void as the ultimate threat. During the Void elf questline, Alleria easily teleports herself and the player from Stormwind's embassy to the Ghostlands. Slyvanus couldn't do that on her own. In her banshee form she is simply a "super" ghost. Ghosts have been shown time and time again to be drawn in and consumed by the void. Slyvanus is completely fucked against Alleria's void powers.

First of all, the Light isn't the same as physical light. Secondly, the idea that Void is on par with it in terms of physical characteristics is unsubstantiated horseshit. Thirdly, Alleria still needs to think in order to use her powers and she definitely doesn't think at the speed of light. Teleportation isn't anything major in WoW. And since Banshees are "super ghosts" as you so put it, projecting what happens to normal ghosts onto them is more unsubstantiated horseshit.

The Baine remark was said from Sylvanas' point of view though.She was the one who realized that if Baine really wanted it he cud snap her like a twig.Not surprising considering he is a 10 foot,800-1000 pound humanoid of pure muscle,but it still shows her body is not insanely durable.It is probably strong,considering she ripped an animal apart with her bear hands in rage and also tanked a hit from Genn Greymane,but nowhere near something like a Tauren.

However physical endurance may not be enough when dealing with a primal force like the void.In the end it kinda depends on what exactly Alleria can do with the void....

Yes, it's from her point of view. But since Sylvanas didn't write herself, it's still subject to artistic embellishment. After all, if the author wanted to convey his strength (because he indeed is a 10 foot mountain of muscle) Sylvanas's character and the overall settings were the context that shaped how it could have been done. So Sylvanas going "Baine senpai finally noticed me. And he's so strong!1!1".

Given how he didn't break anything it shows nothing about Sylvanas. If that snipped supposedly retconned her Edge of Night portrayal, it did a piss-poor job because when Genn struck her in the face with his clawed paw, he didn't achieve much.

[Masqerader]

Sylvanas has like 8 lives left, so she wins

[Tripzzz]

First of all, the Light isn't the same as physical light. Secondly, the idea that Void is on par with it in terms of physical characteristics is unsubstantiated horseshit. Thirdly, Alleria still needs to think in order to use her powers and she definitely doesn't think at the speed of light. Teleportation isn't anything major in WoW. And since Banshees are "super ghosts" as you so put it, projecting what happens to normal ghosts onto them is more unsubstantiated horseshit.

The Light shows all the attributes of physical light. It exists as an endless sea beyond the borders of reality. It is always described as shining light. The Void has to have physical characteristics on par with the Light since the tension between both energies was what caused the creation of the universe. Slyvanus is only a "super" ghost in the sense she is a very powerful ghost. But at the end of the day she is still just a ghost. A banshee. Projecting what happens to ghosts onto a banshee(which is a ghost) is completely valid. Your argument is like saying Kil'jaeden isn't bound to the rules of demons like an imp would be because Kil'jaedan is a "super" demon. Doesn't work that way. There is nothing to suggest that Slyvanus is immune to the drawbacks of being a ghost while she is in banshee form.

[TheramoreIsTheBomb]

Sylvanas has like 8 lives left, so she wins

I don't think this is true at all.

[Rathbourne]

Yes, it's from her point of view. But since Sylvanas didn't write herself, it's still subject to artistic embellishment. After all, if the author wanted to convey his strength (because he indeed is a 10 foot mountain of muscle) Sylvanas's character and the overall settings were the context that shaped how it could have been done. So Sylvanas going "Baine senpai finally noticed me. And he's so strong!1!1".

Given how he didn't break anything it shows nothing about Sylvanas. If that snipped supposedly retconned her Edge of Night portrayal, it did a piss-poor job because when Genn struck her in the face with his clawed paw, he didn't achieve much.

True ,but Golden wrote that book and is the current main writer.Tauren are ridiculously strong,but i think if we take all the evidence into account,we can say Sylvanas is very durable,but not enough to prevent death by a strong weapon and especially strong magics.If i remember right,Alleria was able to use the void like a blade to cut through an eredar,so Sylvanas' decent durability wont be of much use in the current fight.

[TheramoreIsTheBomb]

I can't honestly truly decide. We would need to see what Alleria is actually capable of with her Void powers.

Probably is the second strongest mortal Void user in lore. PC-SDP being the strongest.

[Aquamonkey]

The Light shows all the attributes of physical light. It exists as an endless sea beyond the borders of reality. It is always described as shining light. The Void has to have physical characteristics on par with the Light since the tension between both energies was what caused the creation of the universe.

I don't think you know what actual light is.

[Tripzzz]

I don't think you know what actual light is.

The Light in wow is clearly based off Light in real life. Obviously in WoW it is a supernatural power but it's lore is still influenced by actual light. We see this with things like draenei crystal technology, tauren sunwalkers, and high arakkoa solar magic.

[Dellis0991]

Alleria...haven't she been fighting for over a thousand years? Plus that void shit is no joke. I guess it comes down to which is more stronger death magic or void magic.

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Sylvanas has like 8 lives left, so she wins

All her valkyr are dead, her next death is final

[Friendlyimmolation]

Alleria...haven't she been fighting for over a thousand years? Plus that void shit is no joke. I guess it comes down to which is more stronger death magic or void magic.

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All her valkyr are dead, her next death is final

She has 4-5 Valkyr left. (I say potentially five because in the cinematic for broken shore there was 5)

[Dellis0991]

She has 4-5 Valkyr left.

Oh I fucked up my count by a longshot....

[RedFenix]

Alleria was a match for Sylvanas even before she absorbed the core of the fallen Naaru. Now charged by L'ura, her potential is vast.

[TheramoreIsTheBomb]

I imagine channeling void energy into Sylvanas would make her a bit stronger excluding the pain from it.

[mickybrighteyes]

The Light shows all the attributes of physical light. It exists as an endless sea beyond the borders of reality. It is always described as shining light. The Void has to have physical characteristics on par with the Light since the tension between both energies was what caused the creation of the universe. Slyvanus is only a "super" ghost in the sense she is a very powerful ghost. But at the end of the day she is still just a ghost. A banshee. Projecting what happens to ghosts onto a banshee(which is a ghost) is completely valid. Your argument is like saying Kil'jaeden isn't bound to the rules of demons like an imp would be because Kil'jaedan is a "super" demon. Doesn't work that way. There is nothing to suggest that Slyvanus is immune to the drawbacks of being a ghost while she is in banshee form.

I think you're taking a lot of liberties with the effects of void and light and also with the implications of the strengths and weaknesses of banshee. We've never really gotten a good look into the subject.

While corporeal, we often assume a banshee in possession of a body has certain benefits and weaknesses (that haven't really been explored in game and what's more we haven't really gotten a look at the extent of Sylvanas' control/powers.

As for the void... I imagine every primordial power in existence has a raw existence to rival something... that doens't mean every practitioner is able to call on such a level of power... and a novice who doesn't even comprehend the reaction of their presence in relation to other forces.... laughable that they might to more than injure themselves.

[Serenais]

I'd say statistically Alleria has the higher chance. She has a LOT more experience than Sylvanas, given the timey wimey wobbly behavior of the twisting nether. On top of that, Sylvanas' banshee form is not going to help her much against Alleria (unless the two get into contact range, which I highly doubt, given that both of them are per nature ranged fighters).
Alleria's chances are nowhere near 100%, though. Sylvanas has the advantage of home turf, and I presume she knows the place very well, thus getting the option to find a perfect sniping spot. That is, of course, under the assumption that Alleria isn't OP through the roof thanks to having absorbed a darkened Naaru (and one would expect that it would be close to that, after all, it's a Naaru we are talking about). And there is always a chance of a freak shot hitting the target, although I wouldn't see it as very likely, given the experience of both in making sure those do not happen (and it's hard to spray and pray with a bow).
So, numberwise, I'd say Alleria 65%, Sylvanas 35%.