[Spoilers] Battle for Lordaeron cutscenes revealed

[Difuid]

Btw, these cutscenes seem to answer the question "How the Alliance got to Lordaeron" since getting there throughout the land would have been a nightmare and in fact they apparently land on Tirisfal by sea.

I'm still not sure how they managed to land up there unchecked and, more importantly, how the fucked they carried those massive siege towers with them. I need @Mehrunes's insight on this.

Like how siege machines were built in the medieval times.. ON. THE. SITE.

[Melsiren]

My sensors detect a VERY salty Horde fanboi here.

Please don't take some one critizing the tactical realism of the battle as being "Salty". If you wish to dispute such claims please feel free.

I can't speak for mehrunes but I am already anticipating the same bullshit Horde side when they march on Teldrassil. But who knows maybe Blizzard will actually make it make sense.

It's just right now this reeks of " The Horde did X so now they Alliance has to do Y" to be fair. And all logic and sensibility is being thrown out the window.

[Mehrunes]

My sensors detect a VERY salty Horde fanboi here.

Care to even attempt to dispute any of this? If no, then you and your sensors can get lost.

Like how siege machines were built in the medieval times.. ON. THE. SITE.

Well, not always. Stark majority of the time, yes, but sometimes they were transported around. But there are multiple reasons why this wouldn't apply here:
1. for that to be the case, the terrain had to allow it, too uneven a terrain would fuck this up;
2. the distance had to be really, really short (either from your territory into enemy city right across the border, or you did build the siege towers on the spot at enemy city A then also used them against enemy city B nearby), not to the other side of the world;
3. they sure as fuck weren't transported by sea.

But since these siege towers are technological abominations, they couldn't have been built on the spot either. Because their custom armor alone is already too much for field conditions. Let alone mounted trebuchets or intricate internal mechanisms. But going back to transported siege towers they also create problems. Because weather conditions or - given the moronic way of transport - sea water would fuck said intricate mechanisms up beyond viability.

Please don't take some one critizing the tactical realism of the battle as being "Salty". If you wish to dispute such claims please feel free.

I can't speak for mehrunes but I am already anticipating the same bullshit Horde side when they march on Teldrassil. But who knows maybe Blizzard will actually make it make sense.

It's just right now this reeks of " The Horde did X so now they Alliance has to do Y" to be fair. And all logic and sensibility is being thrown out the window.

At least Teldrassil has some information about shard of Gorribal being used. Attacking a huge tree would be indeed be stupid, but if the shard does all the work after being launched from a ballista, Blizzard can at least magic their way out of this. Undercity, not so much.

[Arrashi]

Well, not always. Stark majority of the time, yes, but sometimes they were transported around. But there are multiple reasons why this wouldn't apply here:
1. for that to be the case, the terrain had to allow it, too uneven a terrain would fuck this up;
2. the distance had to be really, really short (either from your territory into enemy city right across the border, or you did build the siege towers on the spot at enemy city A then also used them against enemy city B nearby), not to the other side of the world;
3. they sure as fuck weren't transported by sea.

But since these siege towers are technological abominations, they couldn't have been built on the spot either. Because their custom armor alone is already too much for field conditions. Let alone mounted trebuchets or intricate internal mechanisms. But going back to transported siege towers they also create problems. Because weather conditions or - given the moronic way of transport - sea water would fuck said intricate mechanisms up beyond viability.

Clearly those are "Make it yourself" pre-packaged IKEA siege towers. How convenient.

[thilicen]

Btw, these cutscenes seem to answer the question "How the Alliance got to Lordaeron" since getting there throughout the land would have been a nightmare and in fact they apparently land on Tirisfal by sea.

I'm still not sure how they managed to land up there unchecked and, more importantly, how the fucked they carried those massive siege towers with them. I need @Mehrunes's insight on this.

Well they came from the north with boats that's for sure when you look at the in-game map. As far as going unnoticed, they would probably have to circle around quite a bit.

[Zulkhan]

You don't land a naval force 50 meters away from the capital city of your enemy.

In lorewise scale the distance should be quite considerable, I think. Well, not like it makes a difference. It would be like saying Germans wouldn't have been aware of the Normandy landings just because the place was over 200 kms far from the Nazis-controlled Paris.

Like how siege machines were built in the medieval times.. ON. THE. SITE.

Don't think I didn't take that option in consideration. However, the siege towers in question look unreasonably complex on the inside and are fucking huge at the same time. Even the mere disassembled components alone would need an unbelievably huge fleet to carry them by fucking sea and the only way the Alliance could have built those towers before the Horde could even notice was by using MaGiC (more specifically mages somehow playing with physics to assemble the components in a matter of instants).

- - - Updated - - -

Well they came from the north with boats that's for sure when you look at the in-game map. As far as going unnoticed, they would probably have to circle around quite a bit.

Yeah but you would think such an hot spot for enemy landing would be defended with everything the Horde could muster. Unless the Alliance didn't use some super magical secret weapon to break through effortlessly, they should have endured a ridiculous amount of losses by just successfully landing. But I actually didn't even notice anything hinting a battle occurring on the shores.

[Mehrunes]

In lorewise scale the distance should be quite considerable, I think. Well, not like it makes a difference. It would be like saying Germans wouldn't have been aware of the Normandy landings just because the place was over 200 kms far from the Nazis-controlled Paris.

It's still a capital zone. The coast is more akin to Calais than Normandy. And the very reason allies did not land in Calais despite its more strategic location was because it was fortified as hell and it would have been a bloodbath.

[Arrashi]

In lorewise scale the distance should be quite considerable, I think. Well, not like it makes a difference. It would be like saying Germans wouldn't have been aware of the Normandy landings just because the place was over 200 kms far from the Nazis-controlled Paris.

Don't think I didn't take that option in consideration. However, the siege towers in question look unreasonably complex on the inside and are fucking huge at the same time. Even the mere disassembled components alone would need an unbelievably huge fleet to carry them by fucking sea and the only way the Alliance could have built those towers before the Horde could even notice was by using MaGiC (more specifically mages somehow playing with physics to assemble the components in a matter of instants).

- - - Updated - - -

Yeah but you would think such an hot spot for enemy landing would be defended with everything the Horde could muster. Unless the Alliance didn't use some super magical secret weapon to break through effortlessly, they should have endured a ridiculous amount of losses by just successfully landing. But I actually didn't even notice anything hinting a battle occurring on the shores.

Maybe they were using stealth ships ? In the end, everyone knows that battleships are by nature very stealthy vessels.

- - - Updated - - -

It's still a capital zone. The coast is more akin to Calais than Normandy. And the very reason allies did not land in Calais despite its more strategic location was because it was fortified as hell and it would have been a bloodbath.

Maybe sylvanas "spread her forces too thin"TM, and simply never noticed that ?

[Aucald]

This whole nitpicking about the siege towers and their presence in Lordaeron seems a bit odd, to me. We are talking about the WoW universe where such things as the Goblin "Town in a Box" is a thing that exists - between magic, Dwarven craftmanship, and Gnomish engineering I don't think portable or self-assembling siege equipment is really that out of scope for being a thing that exists. The BfA opening cinematic showed their interiors to be chock full of clockwork and engineering beyond what you'd need for any simple siege tower, even with mangonel or trebuchet included, so I'm imagining that might explain much as to how they were fielded.

[Arrashi]

This whole nitpicking about the siege towers and their presence in Lordaeron seems a bit odd, to me. We are talking about the WoW universe where such things as the Goblin "Town in a Box" is a thing that exists - between magic, Dwarven craftmanship, and Gnomish engineering I don't think portable or self-assembling siege equipment is really that out of scope for being a thing that exists. The BfA opening cinematic showed their interiors to be chock full of clockwork and engineering beyond what you'd need for any simple siege tower, even with mangonel or trebuchet included, so I'm imagining that might explain much as to how they were fielded.

Because tower in a box is a joke. On the other hand, you would expect a big lore event to have a little more common sense.

[Aucald]

Because tower in a box is a joke. On the other hand, you would expect a big lore event to have a little more common sense.

I don't recall it being a joke - it's part of the Goblin starting experience as well as part of the events that lead up to their inclusion in the Horde. It's also not the most "out there" element of Goblin or Gnomish engineering (e.g. mechano-encounter suits, laser barriers, etc.) and it's used again later in Cata in the Twilight Highlands. Either the Alliance or the Horde has the available technology to field such things on a limited scale.

[Verdugo]

I don't recall it being a joke - it's part of the Goblin starting experience as well as part of the events that lead up to their inclusion in the Horde. It's also not the most "out there" element of Goblin or Gnomish engineering (e.g. mechano-encounter suits, laser barriers, etc.) and it's used again later in Cata in the Twilight Highlands. Either the Alliance or the Horde has the available technology to field such things on a limited scale.

Or the guy writing quests at the time (David Kosak if you wonder) was a fucking idiot that should have kept making funny webcomics instead.

[Aucald]

Or the guy writing quests at the time (David Kosak if you wonder) was a fucking idiot that should have kept making funny webcomics instead.

Can't speak to that, only that it's a concept that now exists in the Warcraft universe. Throw in teleportation of entire cities and advances in arcanotechnology such as the Vindicaar and self-assembling or teleporting siege equipment isn't so far off the logistical map.

[theundad]

What evil things have Void Elves done?

- - - Updated - - -

On that logic, why do they allow Warlocks, Death Knights etc

Have you played the Nightborne allied race intro quest? Alleria turns up and Lor'themar lets her make a pilgrimage to the Sunwell. No spoilers, but it's pretty clear she's a liability. Then it is WOW so.. They'll probably just let the whole 'infested with evil' thing slide..

[Zulkhan]

This whole nitpicking about the siege towers and their presence in Lordaeron seems a bit odd, to me. We are talking about the WoW universe where such things as the Goblin "Town in a Box" is a thing that exists - between magic, Dwarven craftmanship, and Gnomish engineering I don't think portable or self-assembling siege equipment is really that out of scope for being a thing that exists. The BfA opening cinematic showed their interiors to be chock full of clockwork and engineering beyond what you'd need for any simple siege tower, even with mangonel or trebuchet included, so I'm imagining that might explain much as to how they were fielded.

Even if that's the case, I would still prefer even a vague explanation given to us rather than "just use your imagination 'cuz in the magical realm of Azeroth everything is possible" lazy ass excuse.

[Super Kami Dende]

Sylvanas using the Blight. How surprising

[Aucald]

Even if that's the case, I would still prefer even a vague explanation given to us rather than "just use your imagination 'cuz in the magical realm of Azeroth everything is possible" lazy ass excuse.

Hopefully the Lordaeron front will be explained more in-depth in "Before the Storm," probably during its closing arc I would think. I am thinking that the opening cinematic of BfA is more "point B" and that "Before the Storm" will be the narrative chain that brings us from point A (now) to point B.

[Mehrunes]

This whole nitpicking about the siege towers and their presence in Lordaeron seems a bit odd, to me. We are talking about the WoW universe where such things as the Goblin "Town in a Box" is a thing that exists - between magic, Dwarven craftmanship, and Gnomish engineering I don't think portable or self-assembling siege equipment is really that out of scope for being a thing that exists. The BfA opening cinematic showed their interiors to be chock full of clockwork and engineering beyond what you'd need for any simple siege tower, even with mangonel or trebuchet included, so I'm imagining that might explain much as to how they were fielded.

First of all, the siege towers are just part of the overarching issue. Did Alliance get fleet destroyer in a box too? And pocket shoreline fortifications buster?

Secondly, as Arrashi said, town in a box is typical Gnome/Goblin nonsense made for cheap laughs that no one actually laughs at because Blizzard fails at humor. It was also a) an unstable mess and 2) one time occurrence. The siege towers are solid and mass produced. And it's not particularly feasible anyway and excusing one piece of infeasible nonsense with "welp, infeasible nonsense exists in WoW" isn't really that much of an argument.

Finally, how on earth does their intricate construction explain anything? It only creates more questions and makes it all the more suspension-of-disbelief breaking. Oh, and it's also the latest piece in Blizzard's long history of being borderline braindead when it comes to military matters.

[Aucald]

First of all, the siege towers are just part of the overarching issue. Did Alliance get fleet destroyer in a box too? And pocket shoreline fortifications buster?

Secondly, as Arrashi said, town in a box is typical Gnome/Goblin nonsense made for cheap laughs that no one actually laughs at because Blizzard fails at humor. It was also a) an unstable mess and 2) one time occurrence. The siege towers are solid and mass produced. And it's not particularly feasible anyway and excusing one piece of infeasible nonsense with "welp, infeasible nonsense exists in WoW" isn't really that much of an argument.

Finally, how on earth does their intricate construction explain anything? It only creates more questions and makes it all the more suspension-of-disbelief breaking. Oh, and it's also the latest piece in Blizzard's long history of being borderline braindead when it comes to military matters.

Can't answer that - as I said above, perhaps "Before the Storm" will explain more. I would imagine they sweeped the Tirisfal shoreline clean with destroyers beforehand, landing their siege forces and backing it up with engineered or arcane supplemental. We've not really seen anything before the major of Undercity, so we're basically casting stones in the darkness to scotch the details from point A to point B. The timeline too isn't a known quantity, so perhaps the engagement has gone on much longer than the cinematic makes us privy to and we're just watching its culminating battle. Since the Alliance is apparently pushed back and unable to hold the territory they've otherwise sacked I would imagine their forces are fatigued from previous hard fighting.

The "town in a box", although it is comedic, is used multiple times - once during the Goblin opening quests and again in the Twilight Highlands. I bring it up because it's the same level of engineering feat required to explain the siege towers (in part), and it's older technology - a Gnomish variant of the same would probably be more stable and capable of being replicated then fielded. As for "infeasable," well is it any more or less feasible than arcano-mechnical constructs like the Vindicaar or Light-based teleportation arrays? I don't know about scales of caliber for arguments, but these thing do exist - you can't really just handwave them away to prove your own point.

I don't think anyone here is a military tactician or genius - I know I'm not, though I am something of a history buff when it comes to wars and their fighting. My comment about their engineering was to point that there was a complexity to them that simply belies your ordinary bulky and otherwise run of the mill siege equipment. I don't know if that has anything to do with the possibility that they've been constructed in a modular fashion, or their deployment aided by Gnomish engineering, but it's in the realm of possibility. It's also possible that a bunch of Human mages pooled their resources together and teleported the things from Stormwind or elsewhere on Azeroth. Jaina's present at the field of battle, so they probably have the Arcane oomph necessary to manage it.

[delus]

First of all, the siege towers are just part of the overarching issue. Did Alliance get fleet destroyer in a box too? And pocket shoreline fortifications buster?

Secondly, as Arrashi said, town in a box is typical Gnome/Goblin nonsense made for cheap laughs that no one actually laughs at because Blizzard fails at humor. It was also a) an unstable mess and 2) one time occurrence. The siege towers are solid and mass produced. And it's not particularly feasible anyway and excusing one piece of infeasible nonsense with "welp, infeasible nonsense exists in WoW" isn't really that much of an argument.

Finally, how on earth does their intricate construction explain anything? It only creates more questions and makes it all the more suspension-of-disbelief breaking. Oh, and it's also the latest piece in Blizzard's long history of being borderline braindead when it comes to military matters.

They were probably built at the ruins of Brill, which at the time of the siege of Lordaeron is an Alliance encampment.