Where's the hype before killing Villains?

[Sigxy]

I think a lot of people had connections to Arthas / The Lich King. You played 3 campaigns as Arthas (1 human, 2 undead). You knew from the start of WotLK that this was going to be the last boss (that dragon instance doesn't count) which builds up even more, by the time we defeat him - rather than "Whoa hey, suddenly this guy is the villain of the expansion?" He watched you all this time, you saw him in several zones (As Alliance when you're in the spirit realm in one quest, you can find him. And if you go near him, he kills you.)

Then for me it's also the sense that it's easier to 'relate' to him, or at least he feels like a villain that doesn't seem like a 'I can destroy planets' danger, but enough to kill us off (which he did). To me, any boss or villain that is powerful because... they were born / made that way, is extremely boring. Arthas was just like us once, adventurers - and then all these things happened which led to this. He wasn't born with a great destiny, he was just a boy, who became a prince wanting to save his people - and things went wrong.

This is why I wish something could happen to our "power level" and reduce us to mere adventurers again. I want relatable villains who are not world threats anymore - to me, the Lich King was the most powerful I felt comfortable with. After that, things just got silly.

You think? I think otherwise, Lich King was ruined in WoTLK exactly because he was degraded to a joke level by popping up everywhere and taunting player in a Powerpuff Girls villain fashion.

Wasn't the whole point that the Lich King wanted us to fight through all he laid before us to become as strong as possible, then in ICC as we fight him, kill us and raise us as his most powerful servants? If he really just wanted us dead, then I'd agree.

[Jastall]

Agree for Tomb, but Nighthold got a ton of build-up leading to it for both Elisande and Gul'dan, which is a big part of what made it great IMO. Antorus does too, we had several quests show us what was up in there and get almost squished by Aggramar. I do agree Argus kinda comes out of nowhere but I don't care because the fight looks incredible. EN and ToV also had the main villain confront us before. And hell, in Tomb the lack of build-up was patched up by the great final cutscene with Velen and KJ.

Also of course in Antorus the hype was for Sargeras to finally show up. We got that too.

The biggest asspull is still HFC however. At least the Titan theme was present through the entirety of Legion. In WoD demons are a background threat, until surprise Gul'dan becomes the main villain. We pursue him through all of HFC, then surprise Archimonde out of absolutely nowhere.

Also Arthas's build-up was laughable at times. ''mwhahaha I could kill you but I won't'' several times in a row starts to lose its corny charm. Plus his plan made no sense and we were only saved by another asspull. I found Legion's ending more satisfying.

[anaxie]

10man normal lichking was a joke, didn’t take away from the joy I had killing 25m heroic one. Think we did it at either the 15 or 20% buff.

- - - Updated - - -



He was mentioned over 15 years. Arthas was front and center with his games built around him. Not sure how you can put them in the same category.

Kiljaeden was front in center in TFT

the majority of TFT was about Kiljaeden putting Illidan on path against arthas.
Wc3 and TFT wasnt built around arthas

it was built around Arthas, Thrall, The Founding of the new Horde, The Founding and freedom of the Forsaken, The Burning Legion, Medivh, A lot of Tyrande and Malfurion, The Death and Rebirth of the Blood Elves and their Betrayal by the Alliance.

Maybe you should play the game again without being shortsighted as fuck.

and why wouldnt I put KJ in the same catagory or rather above?

KJ created the Horde through Guldan
KJ Created the Lich King
KJ has been the face of the Burning Legion up until his death in Legion

[Polybius]

You think? I think otherwise, Lich King was ruined in WoTLK exactly because he was degraded to a joke level by popping up everywhere and taunting player in a Powerpuff Girls villain fashion.

I don't recall him taunting us much. All he did was empower villains and order them to kill us without ever looking our way. It suits him.

except during Wotlk people did infact relegate him to saturday morning cartoon status with his every zone appearance.

I don't think you understand the negative connotation behind "saturday morning cartoon". It's not because they make frequent appearances, it's because they appear once (with one-dimensional motives) and are killed off and never seen again.

[anaxie]

People keep saying this, yet for some reason, he's still one of the most praised fights/end bosses.

I would disagree with you on that heavily. It's far more interesting to actually HAVE interactions with the final boss rather than never seeing them or hearing of them.

Hell, even Aggramar had a bit more going for him than Argus did, since he did at least show up to try to kill us.

except during Wotlk people did infact relegate him to saturday morning cartoon status with his every zone appearance.

- - - Updated - - -

I don't recall him taunting us much. All he did was empower villains and order them to kill us without ever looking our way.

What about when he Depowered Drakaru

[Thrif]

The Lich King story was well written(Wc3:RoC/TFT). We knew about his past, we knew his intentions, we saw him in the quests, we knew what he's capable of. Stepping into ICC was like a gift you open after waiting for a long time.

Pretty much this. You got to play him through multiple campaigns in WC3 so it was obvious that people would form a bond with him, a bond that was hyped through years of WoW where the idea of facing him consistently brewed in the back of peoples minds. And even though he was extremely poorly written in WotLK, probably one of the poorest WoW ever had, all that pre-existing lore and bond made it such an epic take down.

What's this thread about? Well, I'm no longer feeling that hype towards bosses in the game.

Well, they kind of fucked themselves not letting us fight Sargeras himself. That would've been the fight to end all fights.

And even if the fights hasn't been that hyped... the scenery definitely has. Tomb of Sargeras is one of the most lore important locations on Azeroth, maybe the one most important. And visiting Argus, meeting the Pantheon, if you're in any way interested in the lore of the game you'd know how impactful these things are. I definitely was pretty awed being able to visit these places.

How many raid bosses have killed the entire raid "in canon" only raised by a third party to we can end the fight? Two that I remember. The Lich King, and Argus.
The Lich King killed us....all of use that ever raided him. The Light heard the call and we were raised after Frostmorne was shattered. Than we put him down.
Argus killed us....every single one of us in the room, only the Titans brought us back so that they could use Argus to imprison Sargaras. Argus was a stepping stone to ending the Burning Legion's Crusade.

Also interesting to take note the name of these places reflect each other; "The Frozen Throne" and "The Burning Throne," and they're the end of literally the two biggest villains we had in War3. Not sure if it's intentional or not, but a lot of things point this out as a sort of "homage" or "sequal" or something towards Icecrown Citadel.

[anaxie]

There's a (mostly) straight, unbroken line from WC3 to Wrath. Not so much for KJ.

?????

Pretty sure TBC is a broken line
Vanilla may aswell be too looking at the hackjob copy paste Naxx got.

The Legion has

Antics across Azeroth in Vanilla
The Burning Crusade
Varmathras Plot ~ Wotlk which laid the seeds for the strife that would intensify over the next few years
Cataclysm /Skip
MoP / Skip
WoD ~ Shadow Council and Legion present since Day 1
Legion ~ The kitchen sink

youre right maybe all the expansions should off been legion legion legion and wrapped up their destrcution in expansion #4. YOu should write the games narritive you all star.

[Deleted]

well the answer is easy. Arthas was the last real bad guy from WC3. Almost everyone that played during WotLK had experienced WC3, they have played through the scourge attack on Lordaeron etc.

Shame they totally f*cked up the entire build up of the story, Arthas was seen way to much. Letting us just ravage through his backyard while he just watching and shaking his fist at us.

[anaxie]

Pretty much this. You got to play him through multiple campaigns in WC3 so it was obvious that people would form a bond with him, a bond that was hyped through years of WoW where the idea of facing him consistently brewed in the back of peoples minds. And even though he was extremely poorly written in WotLK, probably one of the poorest WoW ever had, all that pre-existing lore and bond made it such an epic take down.



Well, they kind of fucked themselves not letting us fight Sargeras himself. That would've been the fight to end all fights.



Also interesting to take note the name of these places reflect each other; "The Frozen Throne" and "The Burning Throne," and they're the end of literally the two biggest villains we had in War3. Not sure if it's intentional or not, but a lot of things point this out as a sort of "homage" or "sequal" or something towards Icecrown Citadel.

and the best part!

Bolvar gets hyped up for some reason because of Arthas's Legacy

Which is fucking HILARIOUS to me personally.

Return of the Lich King fanfiction

My sides cannot contain the sheer amount of laughter

[Velshin]

To be more unique and creative they should make a boss fight (after a good build up and a good well written story for that boss of course) actually win a fight against us not killing us but win and no no deus ex machina then we get power up and win (just like the Lich king fight and now Argus) no but then they let the villain somehow have some kind of second thought and remorse which will prevent him from finally killing us something like that.

[anaxie]

well the answer is easy. Arthas was the last real bad guy from WC3. Almost everyone that played during WotLK had experienced WC3, they have played through the scourge attack on Lordaeron etc.

Shame they totally f*cked up the entire build up of the story, Arthas was seen way to much. Letting us just ravage through his backyard while he just watching and shaking his fist at us.

the old gods and the entire burning legions named general cast predates World of Warcraft

as does Deathwing and many of his primary lietenants during Cataclysm

You have absolutely no clue do you?

Oh btw last villan from WC3
and somehow you forget Kil'jaeden and the Naga Queen

Roll over. Youre done

[Count Zero]

youre right maybe all the expansions should off been legion legion legion and wrapped up their destrcution in expansion #4. YOu should write the games narritive you all star.

Calm down there, chief

[Daetur]

Honestly, a lot of people complained that the Lich King felt like a "Saturday Cartoon Villain" because he kept showing up during WotLK questing, and then at the Argent Tournament, only to be like, "I'LL GET YOU LATER, HEROES. ENJOY YOUR MEAGER VICTORY."

But here's the thing. That was one of the reasons he worked, and villains since then and even before then haven't- he was a constant threat and a constant presence in the story of the expansion. That style of expansion villain writing needs to make a return. I don't give a shit that it's campy, or that it's "dumb because he could have crushed us and he didn't lel." It worked. And, for some reason, they haven't done it since.

[anaxie]

Calm down there, chief

I'm fine just pointing out you uninformed you are.

take it like a man

- - - Updated - - -

Honestly, a lot of people complained that the Lich King felt like a "Saturday Cartoon Villain" because he kept showing up during WotLK questing, and then at the Argent Tournament, only to be like, "I'LL GET YOU LATER, HEROES. ENJOY YOUR MEAGER VICTORY."

But here's the thing. That was one of the reasons he worked, and villains since then and even before then haven't- he was a constant threat and a constant presence in the story of the expansion. That style of expansion villain writing needs to make a return. I don't give a shit that it's campy, or that it's "dumb because he could have crushed us and he didn't lel." It worked. And, for some reason, they haven't done it since.

of course it worked i enjoyed the cameos.

i presume is startled blizzard from the backlash doe

You know how fucking awful that entire company is with knee jerk swing changes

[Count Zero]

I'm fine just pointing out you uninformed you are.

take it like a man

I think someone forgot to take their medication today.

[anaxie]

I think someone forgot to take their medication today.

shhhh just take it

[Nathasil]

Blizzard gives Villains too little screen time because they constantly need to call the player champion, unique and savior of the world while s/he stands in a crowd of 20 others, all wielding Ashbringer.

They need to tone the player down and the villains back up fot the game to feel epic again. Not everybody wants to play Batman beating up a 13year old noname who just stole a handbag - and that is the impression Blizzard creates with their priorities.

[Yunaqt]

Idk maybe just me, when I first reached KJ for the first time I was hyped t the end of ToS.
Didn't get that feeling at all during WoD, may have for Blackhand but I took a short break after HM.

Mentioned earlier in the thread, the worst most unsatisfying boss for me was Kargath, died in 2pulls on mythic first day -_-

[Hitei]

I don't think it was shitty at all, and he didn't lose any significantly stronger fighters for it either. The idea is that those 25 raiders would be stronger than anything else he's ever had in his army if they were turned into Death Knights under him.

Do you think those 25 raiders would be able to fight the entirety of ICC and Naxx, and AN, and the countless undead killed across Northrend? Do you think they'd be able to beat Sapphiron and Sindragosa and KT at once? Or the San'layn and Blood Queen and Saurfang Jr.? It took 25 of them to beat any of the champions he had in ICC and Naxx.

He lost far, far more than he gained by letting the heroes chip away at his forces one by one. Including an entire army of Vrykul that were certainly stronger than those champions.

[Phookah]

People keep saying this, yet for some reason, he's still one of the most praised fights/end bosses.

I would disagree with you on that heavily. It's far more interesting to actually HAVE interactions with the final boss rather than never seeing them or hearing of them.

Hell, even Aggramar had a bit more going for him than Argus did, since he did at least show up to try to kill us.

It's almost like he's a flagship character for the entire series Of course he's praised. Popular =/= good/well written/depth/etc.

It doesn't change the fact that he just pops up all over Northrend going "I'll get you next time, Gadget!" and shaking his fist.