Naxxramas 60 vs Naxxramas 80 difficulty?

[Rehija]

An underestimated "nerf" to 80's Naxx is often forgotten. Better PC's and I-Net connections.

[Nitros14]

The lvl 80 version of Naxx was also just shittier in every respect than the original. All the quests and storyline behind the instance were just straight up removed, there was no Corrupted Ashbringer or Atiesh and the tier sets and drops just tended to look worse in general. It seemed like they changed just enough about the instance to lose the magic of the original, but not enough to keep it from looking outdated and out of place among all the shiny new Wrath content, like the inexplicable low res loading screen which irked me to no end.

I liked the frost resist pattern quests.

[Deleted]

Alright, first off all. In absolute numbers and logistics naxx60 was obviously MUCH MUCH harder than naxx80. Strategy and tactic wise likely as well, since you needed specific setups for a lot of bosses that certainly weren't needed for naxx80. Naxx60 was end-raidtier and naxx80 was intro-tier. So yeah, there is no doubt which one was perceived harder in difficulty. I don't think anyone in their right mind would claim otherwise.

On the other hand, i see discussions of classic vs modern mythic raiding going on here and its likely that when you somehow time travel a naxx40 raidteam to mythic tomb, they would fail hilariously because of sheer mechanics vs sheer numbers/logistics back in the day. Also, if you put a modern raidteam into naxx40, i strongly believe we`d be seeing worldfirsts etc, quite a bit faster than we`d used to see. Even if not one of them have been in naxx40 in the past. Simply because 4 horsemen required 8 tanks almsot nobody killed it, it did not have 20 debuffs to watch out for, or having to immunity soak patches, or watch out for flying orbs, lazers, spectral soaking beams, healing shields, directing boulders in pillars and whatnot.. and classes having complex rotations instead of frostbolt x1 trillion.

Classic (if preserved truly classic) will show what happens!

[superhumanj]

80 Naxx was harder because you had only 25 people compared to 40

[epLe]

Also, if you put a modern raidteam into naxx40, i strongly believe we`d be seeing worldfirsts etc, quite a bit faster than we`d used to see. Even if not one of them have been in naxx40 in the past. Simply because 4 horsemen required 8 tanks almsot nobody killed it, it did not have 20 debuffs to watch out for, or having to immunity soak patches, or watch out for flying orbs, lazers, spectral soaking beams, healing shields, directing boulders in pillars and whatnot.. and classes having complex rotations instead of frostbolt x1 trillion.

Classic (if preserved truly classic) will show what happens!

What 4 horsemen did have was 40 players and 4 bosses with different abilities,

But just juggling 4 different stacks of debuffs to reset perfectly over whole fight was alone difficult enough to make it the boss it was.
The movement aspect just to do that, required individual tracking of time and a mental map, when to move from A to B to C and so on.
Everyone had to watch the clock, move correctly on their own, ensuring all roles where present at the 4 bosses at all times as needed.

It's really difficult to both explain and understand just how difficult this part actually was. No other boss ever really required anything similar.

And all of this is just handling their aura debuffs, then add up the boss abilities, tank and gear reqs, and general threat management for this fight.

Unless gearing up gets boosted of some reason (1.12, increased drop rates, personal loot or coins) it will take its time to gear up.

[Nitros14]

I dunno. Classes were at their most complex during Mists of Pandaria. DPS in Legion isn't really that hard.

[Deleted]

Comparing end raid with intro raid...

Better to compare would be Naxx60 with ICC and Molten Core with Naxx80...

[Nitros14]

An underestimated "nerf" to 80's Naxx is often forgotten. Better PC's and I-Net connections.

And servers. It's going to be cool to be able to raid Thaddius without waiting until 3 AM.

[Storfan]

An underestimated "nerf" to 80's Naxx is often forgotten. Better PC's and I-Net connections.

It certainly had an effect. As someone who cleared Naxx25 along with protodrake achivements early on, and currently playing Naxx40 on a blizzlike private server I would consider the latter to be ALOT harder, but I can only imagine how hard Naxx40 would've been back in 2006 due to lacking hardware, connections, pre-knowledge/addons tailored for the specific fights.

[Tekkommo]

WotLK Naxx was made for Wrath babies.

[Deleted]

Why is this even a debate? The instance wasn't scaled anywhere close to how much hp/damage players gained.

[Leih]

Why is this even a debate? The instance wasn't scaled anywhere close to how much hp/damage players gained.

And it was intentional too. They specifically said at the time "We brought back Naxx as a newly retuned entry level raid dungeon to help new players get into raiding." They wanted to make raiding more accessible and less elite in Wrath, starting with making Naxx very easy. Then, as the expansion progressed, adding multiple difficulty levels and such.

It was never even intended to be anywhere NEAR as difficult as the original.

[Deleted]

And it was intentional too. They specifically said at the time "We brought back Naxx as a newly retuned entry level raid dungeon to help new players get into raiding." They wanted to make raiding more accessible and less elite in Wrath, starting with making Naxx very easy. Then, as the expansion progressed, adding multiple difficulty levels and such.

It was never even intended to be anywhere NEAR as difficult as the original.

That and they wanted more people to experience Naxxramas.

[Nitros14]

Why is this even a debate? The instance wasn't scaled anywhere close to how much hp/damage players gained.

Just people in threads saying "Vanilla raiding was trivial, look at Naxxramas at 80 we crushed it".

[Hottage]

80 Naxx was harder because you had only 25 people compared to 40

Bait? Please be bait.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

80 Naxx was mostly a rehash desigend to show people what a lot had missed. It was designed to to be the first raid of an expansion that has the reputation of being pretty easy. It also had to deal with the whole 10 man and 25 man split which likely, since it was the first time, affected tuning a little. Let us not forget classes also were dealing with level 60 mechanics with level 80 abilities. Just a lot more tools in the shed to deal with a lot of the problems that 60 Naxx presented a player.

60 Naxx's main road block was you had no catch up mechanic. So you pretty much had to be geared from BWL and AQ40. More AQ40 the better to be really affective in the place. So even though most rotations and such weren't that hard in vannila gear played a huge role in pure output and if you didn't have BWL/mostly AQ40 gear the play was tuned pretty freaking high. If you did have it than you still delt with stuff that was pretty highly tuned. It was kind of the first raid that really asked you to flask, food, world buffs, and a half dozen other potions/buffs to really get to that level of correct tune. Then you had insane wing ending fights that were very dependant on 30-35 players having brains to be good (when for the rest of the game it relied mostly on 15-25 to be a really good guild).

Now I don't think one is superior or worse to each other. They both served their purpose. At 80 it showed a lot of people what most hadnt seen and was a good introductory raid (it just lasted way to long and was a hair to easy). At 60 it gave us an end of the game wall of content that not many got though which really reduced the whole feeling of the content drought that happened in other expansions after (it just was such a great raid it was a shame not many got to see it). Also the 60 verson really asked things that were easier to deal with at 80. Like it really asked healers to figure out how to AOE heal without the tools. It asked tanks to deal with threat without just sitting on it for 10 seconds at first. It asked DPS to burst, switch targets, and AOE around the room quickly. At 80 all of these things were a lot easier because of the tools given.

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

And it was intentional too. They specifically said at the time "We brought back Naxx as a newly retuned entry level raid dungeon to help new players get into raiding." They wanted to make raiding more accessible and less elite in Wrath, starting with making Naxx very easy. Then, as the expansion progressed, adding multiple difficulty levels and such.

It was never even intended to be anywhere NEAR as difficult as the original.

Glad you brought this up. I always think it's funny when people who dislike modern wow say wrath is the best expansion. That right there is all you need to know as to why it's the worst.

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

I mean, DBM existed in vanilla, decursive played the game for you, threat meters and damage meters existed. Theorycrafting and sims existed in Naxxramas. Videos and strategy sites existed too.

Three is super true.

They didn't get to raid most of the bosses on the ptr or beta though.

- - - Updated - - -

Glad you brought this up. I always think it's funny when people who dislike modern wow say wrath is the best expansion. That right there is all you need to know as to why it's the worst.

Ulduar shit on most vanilla raids though outside of the original 60 Naxxarmas.

[Projectmars]

It certainly had an effect. As someone who cleared Naxx25 along with protodrake achivements early on, and currently playing Naxx40 on a blizzlike private server I would consider the latter to be ALOT harder, but I can only imagine how hard Naxx40 would've been back in 2006 due to lacking hardware, connections, pre-knowledge/addons tailored for the specific fights.

Heigan's "Safety Dance" was a lot more punishing in Naxx40 and since lag was a bit more of a factor back then... yeah, definitely harder.

[Laerrus]

The only boss in WoTLK Naxx that PuGs had a problem with was Thaddius. That ought to tell you something right there.

For some goddamned reason going counter-clockwise around the boss if your polarity shifted, was absolute fucking rocket science for some people.

I remember going into Vanilla Naxx during the final hours of TBC with a fair mix of 60's and 70's, some in Tier 5 and Tier 6. That place was brutal, I remember some of the trash packs in there killing players.