Hardcore casuals ruined leveling

[Wilfire]

If the forums are to be believed, leveling from 1-110 takes up to 42 hours of /played in 7.3.5. My anecdotal evidence suggest that it takes 28 hours, but that's using optimal leveling paths and popping XP potions all the way from 1-85.

In 42 hours you can also do one or more of the following:

• Participate in 14 standard raid nights (enough to clear heroic and be anywhere from halfway to 2/3 into clearing mythic)
• Bring a freshly dinged level 110 character from 800 ilvl to 930 and beyond
• Achieve 2k+ rating in PvP
• Complete all meta raid achievements
• Push a M+ key enough to appear on the leaderboards
• Watch 20 movies or finish 2 AAA games

As of 7.3.5, leveling is by far the MOST obnoxious grind in this game. You get to slog through 6 expansions' worth of outdated content at a snail's pace just to reach endgame. Getting your new alt raid-ready is a joke in comparison. People seem to misunderstand why leveling was so fast prior to 7.3.5. When you have an endgame-centered MMO, you can't force people to play through ALL of the outdated content. That's just too big of an investment to unlock the endgame.

Making zones scale was a step in the right direction, nuking heirlooms and other XP-enhancing items was 10 steps back. I'm not someone who gets discouraged easily; I wiped 500+ times on mythic Kil'Jaeden before killing him. Slogging through outdated content broke me. Listening to hardcore casuals who have the time to level 24/7 but can't play endgame for x reason is BAD. Making leveling 1-110 take 2x or even 3x longer was a dumb decision.

[Alfador]

Can we start what I am sure is to be an overwhelmingly civil and productive discussion here by defining what a "hardcore casual" is supposed to be in context?

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

Good luck with the future of this game. They are clearly looking to add more and more classic-like philosophy to the game. Leveling way a joke before. It was not intentionally like that. It taking 2x as long when it was that quick should barely be noticeable, but if you expected them to leave it that way when allied races where such a big feature you must not have played this game for very long.

[Sylvaeres]

Can we start what I am sure is to be an overwhelmingly civil and productive discussion here by defining what a "hardcore casual" is supposed to be in context?

lmaooo yesss

[zlygork]

Can we start what I am sure is to be an overwhelmingly civil and productive discussion here by defining what a "hardcore casual" is supposed to be in context?

I believe the definition is "lol loser than thinks anything other than mythic raiding is part of the game" in this context

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

Can we start what I am sure is to be an overwhelmingly civil and productive discussion here by defining what a "hardcore casual" is supposed to be in context?

It's actually a pretty good way to describe these people. People who are ardent defenders of the early game and apparently pour hours upon hours into it instead of the end game. Essentily people who advocated for classic. Well I hate to say it, but people asked for this for like 6 years. You all say they never listen to the community. I think this patch is a clear example of the problems within that topic.

[Gohzerlock]

I thought the casuals were the people that preferred easy leveling?

[Dracullus]

Or "rush to max level clear all ASAP and whine" crowd broke early game years ago. It's matter of perspective.

But, judging from your post, I don't think there is much sense discussing anything with you. Anything that not suit your way is "dumb", "bad" and "10 steps back". Come back when you'll no longer see yourself as center of universe.

[Deleted]

Hardcore casuals ruined leveling

And lazy ass "hardcore" like you, who want all classes and even more at max level for free, ruined the game.

42 hours /played for 110 levels isn't even that much. Leveling is part of the game.

[Daedius]

Can we start what I am sure is to be an overwhelmingly civil and productive discussion here by defining what a "hardcore casual" is supposed to be in context?

It's an oxymoron !

[NomCarver]

I thought the casuals were the people that preferred easy leveling?

I would say many hardcore m+ and raiders don't give a fuck about leveling and see 7.3.5 leveling as a giant waste of time.

Can we start what I am sure is to be an overwhelmingly civil and productive discussion here by defining what a "hardcore casual" is supposed to be in context?

Sure. People who don't raid (or raid seldomly) but spend lots of time in the game collecting mounts, battling pets, transmog, and leveling an army of alts. A lot of popular YouTubers would fall under this category.

[Algorath]

I beg to differ. I'm having a whole bunch of fun on my void elf, who is level 54 now. I am not rushing it. I am enjoying seeing the storylines, and all in all having a blast just chilling while leveling.

The only issue I have, as it stands, is that they made levelling take longer (which is okay), but I feel like, for each day that I am not level 110, I am losing out, since so much is time-gated and/or follows some sort of "bad luck protection" - Which I am not a part of before 110.

I dislike, that I levelled my paladin in a day pre-this patch, and now can keep it up to date, but this new character is screwed, just because I am having fun leveling, something that blizzard changed intendedly.

[Krigaren]

As of 7.3.5, leveling is by far the MOST obnoxious grind in this game. You get to slog through 6 expansions' worth of outdated content at a snail's pace just to reach endgame. Getting your new alt raid-ready is a joke in comparison. People seem to misunderstand why leveling was so fast prior to 7.3.5. When you have an endgame-centered MMO, you can't force people to play through ALL of the outdated content. That's just too big of an investment to unlock the endgame.

If you really want to get down to brass tacks, this attitude right here is what's largely "ruined" things in the game. This is also, by the way, a very casual mentality, which boils down to complaining about how hard or how long it takes to do things, instead of being easier/faster/more convenient.

[Deleted]

[*]Watch 20 movies or finish 2 AAA games

damn, are AAA games really so short?
although i recently played through kotor 1 for nostalgia reasons and finished it in ~25-28 hrs (on the other hand i played that game before and knew what to do, for someone new it would surely take longer)

anyway, about thread title:

Damn the WoW players, they ruined WoW! (insert simpsons meme) :P

[corebit]

A "hardcore casual" (whatever that means) would have had leveled all classes to max years ago.
If you're still leveling alts to be raid-ready, you have no business putting the word "hardcore" anywhere near you.

[Rosefern]

Leveling is part of the game.

This feels like the general answer I would give. The hours I spend leveling are my own. They don't involve planning or scheduling around other raiders (although I do still raid normal and heroic)

It's an alternative time to raiding or pvping or the "end game" content. Although the content is "outdated" its still story telling and interesting.

[NomCarver]

I beg to differ. I'm having a whole bunch of fun on my void elf, who is level 54 now. I am not rushing it. I am enjoying seeing the storylines, and all in all having a blast just chilling while leveling.

The only issue I have, as it stands, is that they made levelling take longer (which is okay), but I feel like, for each day that I am not level 110, I am losing out, since so much is time-gated and/or follows some sort of "bad luck protection" - Which I am not a part of before 110.

I dislike, that I levelled my paladin in a day pre-this patch, and now can keep it up to date, but this new character is screwed, just because I am having fun leveling, something that blizzard changed intendedly.

You need to question how replayable it really is. 1-60 zones are pretty smooth even if they take sometime. However the issues with leveling become apparent once you get into Northrend and later xpacs. I am not counting Outland because it is just too dated and obviously has issues.

WoD has also been quite overtuned and became a slog.

[s_bushido]

If playing the game is that much of a chore, buy a fucking boost. Get over it.

[Wilfire]

If you really want to get down to brass tacks, this attitude right here is what's largely "ruined" things in the game. This is also, by the way, a very "casual" mentality, which boils down to complaining about how hard or how long it takes to do things, when it should be easier/faster/more convenient.

Don't resort to absolutes. NOTHING in this game is even remotely hard. What my argument boils down to is that you can clear the current raid on mythic in less time than it takes to level 2 characters from 1 to 110 which IMO is bullshit. Raiding is the real meat of this game, not leveling. If leveling was always as tedious as it is right now, nobody would have complained. No one likes it when things that were previously quick and easy suddenly become tedious.

[idonthinksodude]

If you're anything close to "hardcore" in wow you already have every class leveled...