Hardcore casuals ruined leveling

[HuxNeva]

If the forums are to be believed, leveling from 1-110 takes up to 42 hours of /played in 7.3.5. My anecdotal evidence suggest that it takes 28 hours, but that's using optimal leveling paths and popping XP potions all the way from 1-85.

In 42 hours you can also do one or more of the following:

• Participate in 14 standard raid nights (enough to clear heroic and be anywhere from halfway to 2/3 into clearing mythic)
• Bring a freshly dinged level 110 character from 800 ilvl to 930 and beyond
• Achieve 2k+ rating in PvP
• Complete all meta raid achievements
• Push a M+ key enough to appear on the leaderboards
• Watch 20 movies or finish 2 AAA games

As of 7.3.5, leveling is by far the MOST obnoxious grind in this game. You get to slog through 6 expansions' worth of outdated content at a snail's pace just to reach endgame. Getting your new alt raid-ready is a joke in comparison. People seem to misunderstand why leveling was so fast prior to 7.3.5. When you have an endgame-centered MMO, you can't force people to play through ALL of the outdated content. That's just too big of an investment to unlock the endgame.

Making zones scale was a step in the right direction, nuking heirlooms and other XP-enhancing items was 10 steps back. I'm not someone who gets discouraged easily; I wiped 500+ times on mythic Kil'Jaeden before killing him. Slogging through outdated content broke me. Listening to hardcore casuals who have the time to level 24/7 but can't play endgame for x reason is BAD. Making leveling 1-110 take 2x or even 3x longer was a dumb decision.

You forgot:
- Sell 60 M+15 runs
- Sell 25 HC Anthorus carries

So tell me, why are you leveling? Surely you can afford the golds for leveling boosts?

[The One Percent]

So where's the "skill" of the many thousands of "hardcore raiders" who "invest large sums of time" into failing over and over until they eventually fail their way to success? Honestly the skill argument is a fallacy for 90% of the people it usually gets applied to. Any marginally competent player can and will progress in heroic (and yes even mythic) raiding if they're willing to put "hardcore" quantities of time into it and follow all the requisite steps of raid prep. At the end of the day it's as simple as people invest their time into different parts of the game based on what they want out of it.

If you think mythic raiding or high rated pvp just amounts to "throw yourself at it until it/they die" then you clearly don't know anything about either subject at all.

[Alfador]

If you think mythic raiding or high rated pvp just amounts to "throw yourself at it until it/they die" then you clearly don't know anything about either subject at all.

Good thing that's not what I actually said then. If you'd care to actually answer what I said instead of what you conveniently reinterpreted my words to mean because it's easier for you to be haughtily dismissive about then we can discuss that.

Everything I said is 100% factually accurate. Raid progression at all levels that feature genuine progression is the same concept of iterating upon repeated failure until discovery of success.

[Moose184]

How bout you quit bitchin

[Izalla]

The people who like that type of content should probably be the ones Blizz has in mind when designing said content no? Imagine how pissed off raiders would be if they catered all raiding to the "I don't like raiding I just want it to be easy so I can get it over with" people. It's not exactly the same because anyone can skip raiding and you can only skip leveling if you pay real money, but anyone who wants a pile of alts is gonna have to suffer the same as anyone who hates raiding but wants raiding specific rewards is gonna have to suffer to get them.

[Tinykong]

42 hours is too long? Or 48 in my case?

Man I would love to see some people here back in Everquest, FF11 or any of the older MMOs that came before WoW.

Yes, 42 hours is too long leveling.

Comparisons to Vanilla are wrong, leveling was part of the game at that time, and there wasn't much to do at end game other than farm and maybe dungeons and rarely raid. The majority of the game is now built around end game content, so it makes sense that leveling should just acclimate you to your character and get you ready for the real content. If you want to enjoy the story, you can do that, but people who just want to get to end game and play with their friends shouldn't be hampered.

We'll never be able to prove it, but, I'm pretty sure Blizzard isn't stupid, and this was done in conjunction with allied races to sell more boosts, extend the life of Legion until BfA release and to keep people subscribed during the content lull.

[MechaCThun]

Hardcore casuals ruined WoW*

Fixed that for you.

But even so, it's even the the style of "hardcore casual" rather the attitude of most hardcore casuals wanting everything to be achieved without putting in the time/work as other players.

[TickTickTick]

What my argument boils down to is that you can clear the current raid on mythic in less time than it takes to level 2 characters from 1 to 110 which IMO is bullshit.

You can eat an apple in less time than it takes to build a new building which IMO is bullshit too.
Both my and your arguments are bullshit and hold no sense, only that mine is a satire of your stupid logic. No idea why would you compare one to the other, when they are different activities.

Raiding is the real meat of this game, not leveling.

Do you even RPG? Leveling was, is, and always will be the foundation of a RPG game. ALWAYS. Its the first, basic, and most important part of developing your character. If you so dont like leveling, you picked up a wrong genre.

If leveling was always as tedious as it is right now, nobody would have complained. No one likes it when things that were previously quick and easy suddenly become tedious.

Lets get back to Wotlk release raiding then. When there was only one difficulty, the raids were easy and could be cleared by anyone anytime. Cause you know, raiding is the real meat of this game, so everyone should be able to participate in it whenever they want to and clear it with ease. The fact that they implemented heroic/mythic is outrageous and they should revert it to the good old wotlk naxx days. No one likes it when things that were previously quick and easy suddenly become tedious, right?

[Coolthulhu]

I don't mind leveling but it feels a little bit on the slow side. What bugs me is how Outland and to a lesser extent Northrend feel like compared to the mostly revamped 20-60 zones... so much back and forth. Ugh.

[WoWGoneBad]

I beg to differ. I'm having a whole bunch of fun on my void elf, who is level 54 now. I am not rushing it. I am enjoying seeing the storylines, and all in all having a blast just chilling while leveling.

The only issue I have, as it stands, is that they made levelling take longer (which is okay), but I feel like, for each day that I am not level 110, I am losing out, since so much is time-gated and/or follows some sort of "bad luck protection" - Which I am not a part of before 110.

I dislike, that I levelled my paladin in a day pre-this patch, and now can keep it up to date, but this new character is screwed, just because I am having fun leveling, something that blizzard changed intendedly.

See the bolded part is where my biggest gripe was with the game. From my perspective, it was those who thought just as the Bolded that caused WoW to reduce the leveling process and get you straight to endgame. I mean look at the evidence, XP boosted Gear with 2x the power of the average Dungeon Blue. Power boosted weapons with the same concept. I once took a Shammy from 1 to 60 through dungeons in 2 days and didnt even set foot out in the questing world except to get to 15 for DF.

Blizz saw this as an issue with in 2 ways. 1) with the speed run to endgame, it reduced their time frame for pushing content out(speculation on me here). These forums are proof of that with the complaining of downtime between stuff. 2) What was the point of redeveloping the world post Cata if no one was there to see it. Even if they didnt destroy Azeroth in Cata any development work for the world was almost always ignored because you could just pop on Heirlooms and dungeon hop your way to Endgame.

There are those in the game that do like to RP or just wander the world and enjoy what they see. Problem is that the rush to get to endgame(See bolded) and the pace of XP to questing was redonculiously quick. There are those like me that see the story as development of character just as there are those that see development of endgame gearing. If the Quest is greyed out what is the point of doing it. Might as well just move on to the next XP hub. I personally started a Shammy when Legion started and I went through each area even if it was greyed out because I wanted to enjoy the story, but even I felt it was just "I gotta get to 110 and see the Raids!!!!!"

I eventually stopped at level 67ish out in the Starting WotLK area Horde side. I am eagerly awaiting the Classic server as I want to feel that fresh to the game feeling all over again, and as this forum, WoW forums and people everywhere they want that too.

So Blizz has to take into account BOTH sides of of their customer base. The HardCore Raiders, and the HardCore Causals who enjoy the world. For 10 years they focused on the Raids and now, after seeing the popularity of Nostralius and their Private Classic server, they want to see if they can bring some of these people back.

In business there is a phrase that companies haveto accept, "You can please some of customers some of the times. But you cannot pleas ALL the customers ALL of the time." So for now it is the Raiders that now have to take a back seat for this ride. That does not mean that they are not going to give Raiders something to make up for it.

- Just my two cents........

[xStevooo]

Lol at the pathetic Blizz fanboys all coming in crying waaaa buy a boost.

Amazing thread contribution, great argument skills.

I can't stand levelling so this just confirms I will never level again, my time is very very valuable to me - more than money, so if needs must i'd buy a boost.

Amazing counter marketing skills by Acti/Blizz, make levelling even shitter than it already was (slogging through dated boring dull content) to get to end game. If you don't like it let's chuck a pathetically overpriced boost in the cash shop.

And if you actually enjoy this sad dull levelling that's great, feel free to ignore threads like this and stick to playing.

[Alfador]

Hardcore casuals ruined WoW*

Fixed that for you.

But even so, it's even the the style of "hardcore casual" rather the attitude of most hardcore casuals wanting everything to be achieved without putting in the time/work as other players.

A fictional and logically impossible contradiction that doesn't exist ruined a videogame? Interesting...

[Eleccybubb]

Yes, 42 hours is too long leveling.

Comparisons to Vanilla are wrong, leveling was part of the game at that time, and there wasn't much to do at end game other than farm and maybe dungeons and rarely raid. The majority of the game is now built around end game content, so it makes sense that leveling should just acclimate you to your character and get you ready for the real content. If you want to enjoy the story, you can do that, but people who just want to get to end game and play with their friends shouldn't be hampered.

We'll never be able to prove it, but, I'm pretty sure Blizzard isn't stupid, and this was done in conjunction with allied races to sell more boosts, extend the life of Legion until BfA release and to keep people subscribed during the content lull.

No 42 hours really isn't. Let's not pretend it is.

And cool boost an Allied Race and you don't get the heritage armor. They are totally making you buy a boost there by discouraging it right?

If you have evidence that more boosts are being sold because of this then feel free to present it. Otherwise it's just speculation.

[ceall]

I'll remember this next time I see a post complaining that they're wiping in LFR because only one or two players are able to do more than 400k dps on a boss. Literally everyone who plays this game will spend time leveling. You can't say the same thing about raiding.

Lfr isn't raiding *insert generic meme face here*.
There's a reason for its nickname being failfinder.

Also, I start learning new classes by the time their last talent row becomes available, any point before that, it's like learning to swim on the ground (I'm not good at comparisons, my point is, there's sth missing before that point).

[KD7SVH]

If playing the game is that much of a chore, buy a fucking boost. Get over it.

Best response of all.

[Wilfire]

No 42 hours really isn't. Let's not pretend it is.

And cool boost an Allied Race and you don't get the heritage armor. They are totally making you buy a boost there by discouraging it right?

If you have evidence that more boosts are being sold because of this then feel free to present it. Otherwise it's just speculation.

42 hours is about 0.0006% of your lifespan. That's a lot just to redo something that you have already done several times.

[brbshower]

If playing the game is that much of a chore, buy a fucking boost. Get over it.

This guy gets it. Couldn't have said it better myself

[Eleccybubb]

42 hours is about 0.0006% of your lifespan. That's a lot just to redo something that you have already done several times.

Nobody is making you do it.

Buy a boost if you can't handle a few more extra hours of leveling.

[Lochton]

If the forums are to be believed, leveling from 1-110 takes up to 42 hours of /played in 7.3.5. My anecdotal evidence suggest that it takes 28 hours, but that's using optimal leveling paths and popping XP potions all the way from 1-85.

In 42 hours you can also do one or more of the following:

• Participate in 14 standard raid nights (enough to clear heroic and be anywhere from halfway to 2/3 into clearing mythic)
• Bring a freshly dinged level 110 character from 800 ilvl to 930 and beyond
• Achieve 2k+ rating in PvP
• Complete all meta raid achievements
• Push a M+ key enough to appear on the leaderboards
• Watch 20 movies or finish 2 AAA games

As of 7.3.5, leveling is by far the MOST obnoxious grind in this game. You get to slog through 6 expansions' worth of outdated content at a snail's pace just to reach endgame. Getting your new alt raid-ready is a joke in comparison. People seem to misunderstand why leveling was so fast prior to 7.3.5. When you have an endgame-centered MMO, you can't force people to play through ALL of the outdated content. That's just too big of an investment to unlock the endgame.

Making zones scale was a step in the right direction, nuking heirlooms and other XP-enhancing items was 10 steps back. I'm not someone who gets discouraged easily; I wiped 500+ times on mythic Kil'Jaeden before killing him. Slogging through outdated content broke me. Listening to hardcore casuals who have the time to level 24/7 but can't play endgame for x reason is BAD. Making leveling 1-110 take 2x or even 3x longer was a dumb decision.

Oh, I am sorry, what? Can't handle leveling not being a cake walk anymore? Can't handle it? I am sorry but if you were a 'hardcore' player, you would have your alts settled by now anyways. It is about time questing became more than just a tour in the park and with the right setup, it can still go fast. Your lovely list shouldn't dictate jack shit, in 42 hours a player could meet more friends leveling, find a guild, play the game in general, doesn't matter.

[Deleted]

Leveling is not your cup of tea, we get it.
“Raid-ready, 500 wipes on KJ, rushing, obnoxious, boring, slow...” these are all terms used by endgame players.
Only problem here is that you cant see anything apart from your mindset and people you raid with. You all have that competitive mentality and it seems like everyone is doing the same.
Well, there is different demographic of player who, belive it or not, DONT CARE when they will ding 110. Some even prolong it as much as possible, with locking their exp gain, not using exp pots and/or reading quest text few times.
They dont play endgame, their endgame is leveling. (Ok, some players do both.)
Try to grasp there is other kind of people, just like irl.