The war is such a stupid thing, when you consider what we should know.

[Jastall]

Yeah, I have no doubt the climax will be pretty unrewarding, because every big bad in wowcraft tends to be. The detail is the stuff I enjoy, and while usually I dislike the 'balancing' of losses/victories between factions, I like the lead into BfA and how there's a lot of details up in the air which are relevant to some large defeats for both factions.

As for Azerite itself, from what we know there's something special about it that makes it better than every other shiny rock we know of.

We as players know about N'zoth and the oncoming disaster, but the people of Azeroth not so much.

Not just the players, though. Malfurion knows about it, and at least a few faction leaders must have doubts, Velen for instance or the Highmountain. Plus we the player are supposed to be influential and important now. Why would the Archdruid of the Dreamgrove or the Highlord of the Silver Hand, who have decades of evil smiting under their belt and know exactly the dangers that face the planet, happily murder the opposite faction because miss zombie or the boy king say so?

I'd be fine if Horde vs Alliance tensions boiled to the point where localized conflicts happened (that could be the Warfronts, around important pockets of Azerite for example) while the ''main'' plot relies on investigating the planet's state and uncovering the mystery of Azerite. I'm not saying both factions need to hold hands and sing Kumbaya. I'm saying there's got to be a middle ground between Kumbaya and a world war.

[jackofwind]

but thats exactly whats gonna happen anyway. how can it be considered realistic in a situation where the planet is dying, thats not even a conceivable situation.

I'm sorry, what? A situation featuring humans where extraneous forces threaten existence and you're expecting that there wouldn't be groups using it as an opportunity to press their advantage to try to get ahead? That's what humans do - we use every opportunity to get ahead, including taking advantage of other groups occupied with more altruistic goals.

You're the one describing the inconceivable situation.

[yetgdhfgh]

Do we even know yet how this war starts?

Yeah there is azerite but we havent started a full scale war over the stuff yet have we?

Horde and Alliance have spared over resources before but when has the alliance feel they need to go all in on Lordareon even though not even Varian wouldve done that (Hell he had to go in the back way even when the Horde wasnt in control of the UC)

[Nalorakk]

Not just the players, though. Malfurion knows about it, and at least a few faction leaders must have doubts, Velen for instance or the Highmountain. Plus we the player are supposed to be influential and important now. Why would the Archdruid of the Dreamgrove or the Highlord of the Silver Hand, who have decades of evil smiting under their belt and know exactly the dangers that face the planet, happily murder the opposite faction because miss zombie or the boy king say so?

I'd be fine if Horde vs Alliance tensions boiled to the point where localized conflicts happened (that could be the Warfronts, around important pockets of Azerite for example) while the ''main'' plot relies on investigating the planet's state and uncovering the mystery of Azerite. I'm not saying both factions need to hold hands and sing Kumbaya. I'm saying there's got to be a middle ground between Kumbaya and a world war.

If the factions are giving Magni the deaf ear, something tells me they'd also be ignoring Malfurion (not that Stormwind would ever listen to the elves anyways).

Also I thought Warfronts were going to be like that? Or am I muddling it up with island information?
As for the plot, from all we know, it could end up how you'd like to see it with the undercurrents of other stuff.

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Do we even know yet how this war starts?

Yeah there is azerite but we havent started a full scale war over the stuff yet have we?

Horde and Alliance have spared over resources before but when has the alliance feel they need to go all in on Lordareon even though not even Varian wouldve done that (Hell he had to go in the back way even when the Horde wasnt in control of the UC)

Until we have more information about how it escalates, seems like the Alliance started it by killing goblin workers.

(And yes, I'm aware what the goblins were doing wasn't nice or good, but the Alliance completely forewent diplomacy).

[Syegfryed]

people always forget that the characters, npcs and leaders don't read lore, and don't see the other faction point of view and cinematic

They hate each other for years/centuries, they will never stop

Hate is not a logical thing, characters are not all morally good and want blindly peace, they want power, revenge lands, resources, the conflict is not forced, forced is stopd the conflict, and hold hands like they did in legion, and thats why it was garbage.

[corebit]

Better than Orc and Elf encounter 112,382...

Meanwhile over at General Discussion, we have a thread talking about how WoW bosses are now just saturday morning cartoon villains who pose exactly zero threat while we continue to faceroll over their plans.

We have already beaten Titans this expansion, so next we will start beating Old Gods and Void Lords and foil their plans just as effortlessly.

At least with faction conflict, there's always that sense that the opposite faction is just as powerful as you are.

[Jastall]

If the factions are giving Magni the deaf ear, something tells me they'd also be ignoring Malfurion (not that Stormwind would ever listen to the elves anyways).

Also I thought Warfronts were going to be like that? Or am I muddling it up with island information?
As for the plot, from all we know, it could end up how you'd like to see it with the undercurrents of other stuff.

Islands are about competing for Azerites. Warfronts are old fashioned brawls over strategic locations such as Stromgarde.

You're right, maybe the faction war will take a backseat after the intro. But given that this is Blizzard, I expect them to go full on into ''fuck yeah faction ear let's kill Horde/Alliance!'' then suddenly shift gear halfway through.

[Deleted]

And don't forget that Azerite is essentially mixed with old god's blood, which stimulates and even maddens the mortal mind; similar to how saronite numbed those miners in Northrend. Regardless of the old god's dead/alive status, their blood simply poisons the mind. It's not far-fetched to assume that this is the reason why the war starts.

This is the direction the expansion is going to take and this is pretty clear not only from Azshara and the Kul'tiran priests, but also from every character's expression in the finale cinematics when they come in contact with Azerite. They all suddenly become cloudy, mysterious and agitated.

[Stardrift]

but thats exactly whats gonna happen anyway. how can it be considered realistic in a situation where the planet is dying, thats not even a conceivable situation.

You'd be bitching and crying about everyone holding hands right off the bat too.
Something along the lines of "WAHHH WHERE WAS THE BUILD UP? WHY DID GENN AND SYLVANAS RANDOMLY LET BYGONES BE BYGONES?! IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE AND WOULDN'T HAPPEN IN THE REAL WORLD"
I can already see it.

[Coolthulhu]

My only regret is that players are not given the option to serve the old gods instead.

[Nalorakk]

Islands are about competing for Azerites. Warfronts are old fashioned brawls over strategic locations such as Stromgarde.

You're right, maybe the faction war will take a backseat after the intro. But given that this is Blizzard, I expect them to go full on into ''fuck yeah faction ear let's kill Horde/Alliance!'' then suddenly shift gear halfway through.

Hard to say given the biggest Legion Invasion Of All Time! took a backseat the moment the broken shore event ended.

Guess we'll find out with well founded hesitation

[Wondercrab]

One of the larger problems with WoW as a roleplaying game is that it largely treats the PC as an idiot without any character agency of their own. This is partially due to the linear nature of questing, but also the inconsistency of the moral/ideological goals the player pursues with each given storyline.

I came across this just the other day when leveling my Nightborne through Felwood -- a zone I haven't finished since the Cataclysm revamp. A large part of the story involves you helping to cleanse the forest, undo the damage dealt by the Burning Legion, and fix the mess left behind by a former Horde outpost. You even go through a whole quest chain involving growing a brand new ancient and restoring hope for the future of the forest.

And then what does the Horde PC do after that? Immediately start aiding goblins in destroying what remains of the forest, cutting down trees and enslaving wisps as they exploit the area for its natural resources. It paints the player either as a completely mercenary figure with no motivation besides money and loot, or a shortsighted jerk who's willing to completely turn their back on any kind of moral principles they might have so long as it means aiding their faction.

You see this happen a lot, particularly when it comes to faction vs faction stuff. Neutral quests allow the PC to be thoroughly heroic, smart, and justified in their actions, but as soon as it comes to faction war they devolve into an amoral yes-person who does anything their leader tells them to without question. It's reflective of just how poorly the faction conflict is substantiated in WoW and the problems that arise from trying to create two warring groups that are both ostensibly the good guys. At the end of the day everyone just comes across as an asshole idiot, the player character most of all. If you want to talk about WoW lacking in immersion these days, stuff like this is a big part of it.

[Florena]

Now its main dish, and not just appetizer.

If you think this is goign to end as any more of a horde/alliance war than MOP did that's cute. Enjoy it while it lasts.

[Goldielocks]

I don't find a faction war to be that bad, but it makes the people who are way too into this game start mouthing off at the opposite faction and acting like raging morons. The cringe alone I've seen about the allied races on these forums is enough.

[Whitedragon]

Not really. I would take characters like Garrosh over completely uncompelling loot piñatas like Deathwing, Argus or KJ any day.

And I would take the chance of being able to tell stories about factions not tied to Red vs Blue, Imagine Worgen and Orcs, fighting gnomes and goblins or something like that. Not everything has to be between 2 factions that at this point should like groups from the other side more then some in their own team. You cant tell me Bain hes better feelings towards the goblins then he dose for say the Night elves, or dwarfs.

[Rathbourne]

Not really. I would take characters like Garrosh over completely uncompelling loot piñatas like Deathwing, Argus or KJ any day.

Hey Piss off !! Kiljaedan is way better than every wow villain except for maybe Arthas. Deathlol character was butchered in cata and ..yeah Argus was a loot pinata...: /

OT: Even if the world was dying what good would it do if the factions united ? Magni is tasking us to gather Azerite and that is whats going to heal the world,us holding hands and Sylvanas and Genn sharing a peace pipe wont.

[TheFirstOnes]

And even now, we aren't seeing the last of Sargeras' presence.

Did you see that Demon Goat? Ya know? The Goat with those Satanic Markings? Yeah...Sargeras even made his BS available to see in Kul'tiras/Zandalar. D:

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And no, I don't find that "Demon Goat" to be a Void/Old God presence.

[nothingsjim]

Sure, Azeroth is dying. But so what?

Blizzard has not provided in-game characters with any reason that they should save Azeroth (Titan). Magni keeps telling us we should save her, but he failed to provide us any incentive other than the good ol "Sanctity of Life", he didn't even tell us what could happen to Azeroth (World) if the Titan Soul inside die/gets corrupted. Does Magni even know Void Lord's plan?

The only remaining people who (most likely) know Void Lord's plan are the Titan Keepers. Is there any scene in game where they told us the consequence of Azeroth (Titan) being corrupted?

People keep saying "We should save our world" while forgetting that we only save our world because it also benefits the people living on it. If there're no/little benefit to the people, we won't bother saving the world, just look at the more polluted countries on our Earth.

If you tell a group of people they can either
1.) Save the world, but they have to contend with untrustworthy, cannibalistic, warmongering, chemical weapon using nazi zombies. Or
2.) Screw the world, you kill those things no matter what, but deal with a 'may be' harsher living environment later.

You will be surprised how many people will choose the second option. Simply due to the fking the world up is outright more beneficial than saving it.

[TheFirstOnes]

Sure, Azeroth is dying. But so what?

Blizzard has not provided in-game characters with any reason that they should save Azeroth (Titan). Magni keeps telling us we should save her, but he failed to provide us any incentive other than the good ol "Sanctity of Life", he didn't even tell us what could happen to Azeroth (World) if the Titan Soul inside die/gets corrupted. Does Magni even know Void Lord's plan?

The only remaining people who (most likely) know Void Lord's plan are the Titan Keepers. Is there any scene in game where they told us the consequence of Azeroth (Titan) being corrupted?

People keep saying "We should save our world" while forgetting that we only save our world because it also benefits the people living on it. If there're no/little benefit to the people, we won't bother saving the world, just look at the more polluted countries on our Earth.

If you tell a group of people they can either
1.) Save the world, but they have to contend with untrustworthy, cannibalistic, warmongering, chemical weapon using nazi zombies. Or
2.) Screw the world, you kill those things no matter what, but deal with a 'may be' harsher living environment later.

You will be surprised how many people will choose the second option. Simply due to the fking the world up is outright more beneficial than saving it.

Sargeras did nothing wrong.

[huehuehue]

My only regret is that players are not given the option to serve the old gods instead.

pretty sure i remember seeing the doomsayers robes as a toy recently. go nuts on an rp realm