Blizzard Needs to remove Sprints and mass Stun from M+

[Umbrex]

u just need to git good

[Ophenia]

Please no. We don't need to balance this mode around the MDI in which 5 teams in the world will compete (and nobody cares for this anyway).

They should even stop disabling the talent swap in MM+ just because of the MDI. That's the whole point of any Talents system in any game, swapping them depending on the situations.

[Deleted]

Please no. We don't need to balance this mode around the MDI in which 5 teams in the world will compete (and nobody cares for this anyway).

They should even stop disabling the talent swap in MM+ just because of the MDI. That's the whole point of any Talents system in any game, swapping them depending on the situations.

That's not the reason for why talent swaps are disabled in m+, it is to avoid the need to micro manage them in between different trash packs and bosses.
Imagine having to swap talents literally every time you are out of combat if you wanted max efficiency. Having to juggle 10+ gear sets is enough hassle in my book.

[Deleted]

I don't know what I'm talking about: The Thread

Ret paladins and eleshamans are absolutely beasts in M+ and movement speed is only important in very low keys.

Start scrolling: https://raider.io/mythic-plus/season...boards#content

Tell me when you've encountered 100 Ret Paladins.

[ReD-EyeD]

Start scrolling: https://raider.io/mythic-plus/season...boards#content

Tell me when you've encountered 100 Ret Paladins.

Sure, I know this logic when if you're not world-class mythic runner you're not viable at all.

[Deleted]

Start scrolling: https://raider.io/mythic-plus/season...boards#content

Tell me when you've encountered 100 Ret Paladins.

Sort it like this https://raider.io/mythic-plus/season...in/dps#content for faster results. There are some rets with 24/25 runs. Same as every other class.

[ReD-EyeD]

Honestly 5.5% seems fair. What's the deal?

[XDurionX]

If only paladins had an instant mount or something...

[klaps_05]

I feel the m+ meta is much less impacted by MDI or class-stigma than streamers. Daily there are at least 10+ high m+ streamers who all pull awesome strats, but the comps they run are not that different.

[Puri]

Basically title.

There are many classes that are considered "unviable" or unwanted to for mythic +, such as ret paladins or ele shamans, often because they are either so called "wheelchairs" as in too slow, or simply miss on survivability (ele shaman deff colldowns) while other classes have 2-3 of those.

Imo if blizzard wants to make this gamemode an esport, the playing field needs to be equalized. Which also includes less punishing melee affixes/boss encounter so people can bring 2 melee's if they feel like it.

I am not really sure why you picked just ret and elemental, they are in a good spot. Mobility is a non issue in higher keys, and both classes you named are actually very fast.

What you probably mean is there are two classes (rogues and locks) who have superior suvivability compared to all other classes, and even there rogues only really excel at mitigating aoe damage while affli locks just have insanely high self heal paired with a passive shield that should have been nerfed two patches ago, 2.5M heal per tick on tyricanical CoS really is nothing you can call balanced anymore.

But not all fights in m+ are Hyrja fights, off heals from the ret together with his blessings or the aoe heal from the shaman (and the ankh which does not consume a BR charge) are still very good assets to have.

[Hellrime]

Someone should tell those ele shamans doing high keys that they aren't actually viable and it's all a figment of their imagination. Also, which affixes are super punishing to melee compared to range?

If sanguine land in melee, all melee have to move. Quaking requires the melee to spread out, often out of range of boss/enemies. Raging, melee can be cleaved, if a ranged dies to this they're bad. Range have the luxury of spreading out. All the periodic damage ones affect melee much worse.

[ItsTiddles]

If sanguine land in melee, all melee have to move.

Do melee have to stop dpsing to move? If you're doing a big pull and leaving a trail of sanguine, range have to move as well to keep up.

Quaking requires the melee to spread out, often out of range of boss/enemies.

I was almost hoping for this response. Quaking was literally designed to interrupt casters. Melee complain about a few seconds off of dps if there just happens to be multiple melee in a group, but it's always effecting casters.

Raging, melee can be cleaved, if a ranged dies to this they're bad. Range have the luxury of spreading out. All the periodic damage ones affect melee much worse.

This sounds like a positioning issue. Spreading out also depends on the instance and trash pull, it's not always the case.

[ONCHEhap]

when the key levels start to go up,you spend less and less time running around,so mobility is not much of an issue anymore

- - - Updated - - -

Sure, I know this logic when if you're not world-class mythic runner you're not viable at all.

Good old WoW player logic
If you're not the best,you're the worst by default

[ReD-EyeD]

If only paladins had an instant mount or something...

They don't though. You're mistaking them with druids.

[Hellrime]

Do melee have to stop dpsing to move? If you're doing a big pull and leaving a trail of sanguine, range have to move as well to keep up.



I was almost hoping for this response. Quaking was literally designed to interrupt casters. Melee complain about a few seconds off of dps if there just happens to be multiple melee in a group, but it's always effecting casters.



This sounds like a positioning issue. Spreading out also depends on the instance and trash pull, it's not always the case.

1. If you can't position yourself around the pool that is your problem as a ranged considering you deal with this mechanic the least. When it drops under a trash pack, the melee get a split second to adjust as well as the tank having to re-position. Ranged are not affected by this unless on the move.

2. It may be designed to interrupt casters, but the melee and the tank are almost always stacked. We receive the higher portion of the damage if we don't immediately spread out. Casters should ALREADY be spread out.

3. Because all trash pack line up perfectly every time and don't do quirky things. I guess in addition to not being melee, you don't play a tank either, otherwise you would know that your statement is invalid.

It isn't a problem that the mechanics affect the melee worse, it has always been that way in almost every fight. Thus why no one ever brings 20 melee to raids. You just have to be a sharper player.

[Deleted]

Elemental shamans have:

• 5 second aoe stun on a 45 second cooldown.
• 12 second cooldown interrupt (shorter than melee dps)
• AoE knockback which can be used as an additional interrupt for things that are normally not even interruptable or stunnable (Inquisitors in Arcway for example).
• Reincarnation which does not affect combat ress.
• AoE slow

There's probably more that I missed. Claiming elemental shamans are bad in mythic plus is ridiculous, they bring lots to the team and it will be even more notable when they remove shockwave from fury and arms warriors and DH's AoE stun.

[Kralljin]

There's probably more that I missed. Claiming elemental shamans are bad in mythic plus is ridiculous, they bring lots to the team and it will be even more notable when they remove shockwave from fury and arms warriors and DH's AoE stun.

Yeah and Shaman has a poor defense across all 3 specs, which is a major reason why Shaman struggles in high keys whereas classes like Warlock or Rogue start to shine.

Elemental is fine for trash / AoE heavy Instances, but for Instances that involve huge hits on the Dps as well, it's probably one of the worst specs, also taking into account that Elemental does not have the greatest ST Dps, outright sucks on heavy movement fights and needs to wear legendaries like Prydaz for survival.

Did ion dont indirectly talked about this? That alot of classes getting (for example like shaman and druid) utilty removed that is not unique to them?

Elemental loses Gust of Wind, Druids now pick Wild Charge instead of Displacer beast (basically).

[Deleted]

Do melee have to stop dpsing to move? If you're doing a big pull and leaving a trail of sanguine, range have to move as well to keep up.



I was almost hoping for this response. Quaking was literally designed to interrupt casters. Melee complain about a few seconds off of dps if there just happens to be multiple melee in a group, but it's always effecting casters.



This sounds like a positioning issue. Spreading out also depends on the instance and trash pull, it's not always the case.

top kek the stats being linked even show all the ranged classes FAR out representing the melee ones in higher keys when affixes actually matter not sure if you are trolling or just plain blind to the stats being linked. If your arguments of melee having it easier had merit the 25 + keys would be filled with melee not with ranged classes/specs.

[ItsTiddles]

I guess in addition to not being melee, you don't play a tank either, otherwise you would know that your statement is invalid.

You're right. I play a healer. A role that actually has to deal with multiple affixes.

top kek the stats being linked even show all the ranged classes FAR out representing the melee ones in higher keys when affixes actually matter

You mean lock? Which out represents every other class? Locks bring far more than their range to high keys. Boomkins are the same way. Survivability out the ass. That doesn't stop rogues and monks from showing up more than priests and shamans, even higher/tied with mages in 25+ keys. If skittish and sanguine prevented melee from being viable, like people who don't do high keys are assuming, the highest runs in the world wouldn't have any melee in them, even though most of them do.

[Ophenia]

top kek the stats being linked even show all the ranged classes FAR out representing the melee ones in higher keys when affixes actually matter not sure if you are trolling or just plain blind to the stats being linked. If your arguments of melee having it easier had merit the 25 + keys would be filled with melee not with ranged classes/specs.

Funny enough, all runs are using at least one melee. Boomkins and Afflocks are not brought because of convenience, but maybe because they're broken as fuck both in single and multi target situations and immune to any kind of nerf.

-snip-
Honestly 5.5% seems fair. What's the deal?

The best part is that the most used classes don't even have Sprints or Mass stuns that are stated in this topic as "broken". Big up to Warlocks who don't even have any of both. But yeah Mass stuns should be removed from MM+, that completely breaks the meta to see Demon Hunters and Shadow Priests everywhere in the ladder !

If sanguine land in melee, all melee have to move. Quaking requires the melee to spread out, often out of range of boss/enemies. Raging, melee can be cleaved, if a ranged dies to this they're bad. Range have the luxury of spreading out. All the periodic damage ones affect melee much worse.

If you think you have to move out of range when affected by Quaking, then you're clearly the bad player here. I've done countless runs with Melee comp, and you never need to move 500 yards away. You're always on range to do something with the insane hitboxes and the fact that half of melees can still continue to deal damage even slightly outside the hitbox.