At least four people shot in Italy in drive-by attack by alleged far-right gunman

[h4rr0d]

So you want to show them they came to an uncivilized country that is still all about vigilance and terrorism.
And yes, you want to make them feel unsave. You are proposing terrorism.

Actually you know what? Yes, if they aren't willing to abide by the rules of the country they came into (supposedly to live a better life), then I want to make them feel unsafe and unwelcome. And I'd fully expect my government and especially the judicial system to do that for me.

[PosPosPos]

Well with Trumpism in full force, you do see a lot more Americans adopting that full on European smug dipshit attitude, embodied in the likes of Richard Spencer and his ilk. I do think that we are generally much better than the kind of attitudes you'd commonly find in Europe and Asia.

I disagree, as a 3rd party looking on.

That's not a strawman. He literally think countries are uncivilized if they don't adhere to his ideas of how they should behave to be deemed civilized, he said all civilized countries have abolished the death penalty and I said there are civilized countries on his posted map that hasn't abolished it. Singapore has the death penalty, people cry about human rights abuses. Is Singapore uncivilized? Most certainly not, there's just different ideas how to run society. Western countries are not the only civilized places on earth.

Meh, civility is relative. As long as my nation is more civilised than the so-called top nation in the world, I am happy with it.

[Freighter]

Actually you know what? Yes, if they aren't willing to abide by the rules of the country they came into (supposedly to live a better life), then I want to make them feel unsafe and unwelcome. And I'd fully expect my government and especially the judicial system to do that for me.

Yeah, that surely will make them behave just like you want them to. There's absolutely nothing that could go wrong.

[h4rr0d]

Yeah, that surely will make them behave just like you want them to. There's absolutely nothing that could go wrong.

And you think shit like this https://www.trendsmap.com/twitter/tw...67666259136512 is better? They come from place where they cut your hand off if you steal. What kind of message does "could not prove that he knew gun would go off when trigger is pulled" does send them?

[Freighter]

And you think shit like this https://www.trendsmap.com/twitter/tw...67666259136512 is better? They come from place where they cut your hand off if you steal. What kind of message does "could not prove that he knew gun would go off when trigger is pulled" does send them?

The source is in Swedish, I don't speak Swedish. So, I can't say anything about it.

[Kiri]

It's not we need to show them they are not safe in your country. It is that we need to show them that even if the government tries to cover up the mess they are causing, we still see it and we will not let it slide by. The racial/cultural tensions are there whether we like it or not. And the government and media trying to only address half of the issue by tagging the indigenous population as racist and xenophobic, while informing less and less about what the immigrants are causing is only adding fuel to fire. Check out what's happening in German town Cottbus.

Also, honestly? That is precisely the only kind of rhetoric they actually understand and respect. Anyone who thinks a 'no means no' bracelet will prevent anyone (let alone group of sexually deprived Muslims) from committing a rape-murder is delusional.

So what you are saying is 'terrorism is okay, as long as it is being used against other people'? Because that is what you just said. The unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims, wasn't it?
Interestingly, the German media is not only addressing half of the issue. It tagged the murderer as monstrous and it tagged the shooter as a criminal, without calling the indigenous population as racist and xenophobic.

A no means no bracelet does not deter a sexually deprived Christian from committing a rape-murder, either. So why are you not for randomly shooting Christians?

[h4rr0d]

A no means no bracelet does not deter a sexually deprived Christian from committing a rape-murder, either. So why are you not for randomly shooting Christians?

Because my social bubble doesn't supply me with links to news articles about Christians doing these kinds of things. And because stuff like this started emerging only after sexual assaults started getting widespread in the western Europe after the immigration wave.

Edit: And to reply to your other question. Means of resolving issues usually employed by western countries do not seem to be very effective so far, so maybe it is time to try different approach? And while I don't have any relevant data to support this, I'd argue that the inability/non-willingness of western authorities to employ more direct methods for making sure that it is the newcomers who change and respect our laws and customs might be only encouraging them not to change.

[Kiri]

Because my social bubble doesn't supply me with links to news articles about Christians doing these kinds of things. And because stuff like this started emerging only after sexual assaults started getting widespread in the western Europe after the immigration wave.

So crime from non-Muslims is perfectly fine and does not warrant the shooting of innocents, simply because your Facebook feed that exists to further your existing bias does not report it, gotcha.

Edit to your edit: 'Shooting up innocents' should never, ever, be the means of resolving an issue employed by the state. We had that in Europe almost a decade ago and it did not end well.

[Noradin]

That's not a strawman. He literally think countries are uncivilized if they don't adhere to his ideas of how they should behave to be deemed civilized, he said all civilized countries have abolished the death penalty and I said there are civilized countries on his posted map that hasn't abolished it. Singapore has the death penalty, people cry about human rights abuses. Is Singapore uncivilized? Most certainly not, there's just different ideas how to run society. Western countries are not the only civilized places on earth.

If it still has the death penalty? Yes it is.
(Not that "civilized" is an absolute thing unless you take it literally as in "there are cities".)

[h4rr0d]

So crime from non-Muslims is perfectly fine and does not warrant the shooting of innocents, simply because your Facebook feed that exists to further your existing bias does not report it, gotcha.

Edit to your edit: 'Shooting up innocents' should never, ever, be the means of resolving an issue employed by the state. We had that in Europe almost a decade ago and it did not end well.

Actually my Facebook feed is full of what you would call progressive people, but somehow even then it fails to provide me with news about law abiding, upstanding migrants creating thriving communities or anyone but migrants committing sexual crimes.

[Noradin]

Actually you know what? Yes, if they aren't willing to abide by the rules of the country they came into (supposedly to live a better life), then I want to make them feel unsafe and unwelcome. And I'd fully expect my government and especially the judicial system to do that for me.

So you support terrorism and vigilantism but expect immigrants to not follow your lead but do better than yourself?

[Deleted]

I'm Italian and the story here is clearer, that asshole is a nazi-fascist and he thought it was a good idea to do like Frank Castle, become a retarded The Punisher by shooting four innocent people, just because a black man, unfortunately immigrant, who he was accused of ripping up an 18-year-old girl and hiding it in a suitcase, and this is yet to be verified. So thanks to the media and the government, as usual, a person made the wrong decision, killing, I repeat, F O U R I N N O C E N T people. And anyway, Italy does not do enough checks to the people who arrive here, no quarantine or check documents, then we can not complain if one in a hundred thousand is a murderer or rapist or thief.

[Noradin]

And while I don't have any relevant data to support this, I'd argue that the inability/non-willingness of western authorities to employ more direct methods for making sure that it is the newcomers who change and respect our laws and customs might be only encouraging them not to change.

So you are simply guessing "let's try terrorism, it might work despite there being no indication to think so".

[Kiri]

Actually my Facebook feed is full of what you would call progressive people, but somehow even then it fails to provide me with news about law abiding, upstanding migrants creating thriving communities or anyone but migrants committing sexual crimes.

Because law abiding, upstanding migrants creating thriving communities is not news. Most news is negative, tbh. And sexual crimes are being committed by non-migrants as well, they are just not as news-worthy as those committed by migrants. If you want to make actual arguments, you use statistics and data, not your subjective reading of social media. My personal Facebook feed fails to provide me with any news about such crimes at all, but I do not believe that they don't exist because of that.

At the end of the day, violence used against innocents can never be justified.

I'm Italian and the story here is clearer, that asshole is a nazi-fascist and he thought it was a good idea to do like Frank Castle, become a retarded The Punisher by shooting four innocent people, just because a black man, unfortunately immigrant, who he was accused of ripping up an 18-year-old girl and hiding it in a suitcase, and this is yet to be verified. So thanks to the media and the government, as usual, a person made the wrong decision, killing, I repeat, F O U R I N N O C E N T people. And anyway, Italy does not do enough checks to the people who arrive here, no quarantine or check documents, then we can not complain if one in a hundred thousand is a murderer or rapist or thief.

Did they all die? Actual curiosity, since the OP story just had four injured.

[Mormolyce]

No, but unlike you I don't consider a country to be filled with savages just because they don't adhere to your ideas.

My ideas?

I'm going by the standards of international human rights commissions here.

[Nerovar]

Hm, i dont mean the are defending the act itself. They are trying to excuse it

Example: Islamic Terrorist blow shit up, ppl say we can´t blame the muslims! It will create more terror! Or isolate Muslims inte the west.

Example 2: Right wing Terrorist blow shit up, ppl go apeshit and do in no way shape or form say the above.

Because right wing terrorism isn't instrumentalized by right wingers to marginalize a minority. "we can´t blame the muslims" as you put it, is not a justification of the act itself. I didn't blame my conservative friends when Anders Breivik shot up 77 people. It's basic human decency to not judge all people of the same religion/belief system for the actions of a few. Also note that I'm not saying that there aren't things inherently wrong with Islam but it can't be too hard to separate these issues in your head like a rational human being and discuss them in a civilized manner.

[JohnBrown1917]

For someone who doesn´t wanna be generalized with communist Overlords, you do seems to love doin it to others.

lol what are you even on about.

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So since on the first 10 pages no one really mentioned it, I'll reiterate, that the shootings happened only after a EIGHTEEN year old girl was found CHOPPED UP in suitcases in those areas, and a Nigerian immigrant was apprehended as a suspect.

This is probably nothing more than retaliation which is being used to push multiculturalist agenda (yet again). And since all EU governments are downplaying the atrocities these individuals are committing as individual cases by deranged savages, someone needs to show the immigrants, that even though they might have support from the government who is safely locked away in their ivory towers, the common man who actually has to interact with them on daily basis does not approve of such behavior. There's state of emergency in France for 2 years now for fuck sake. They even changed their law so that they won't have to call it that and keep the rules it entails in effect. And yet, somehow it's still white supremacists fault that all of this is happening? The immigrants are forming ghettos and are fairly tight knit community. Don't tell me that if they weren't ok with what the 'radicalized individuals' are doing, they couldn't stop them.

Yep, that totally excuses it...



...Are you fucking serious?

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Actually my Facebook feed is full of what you would call progressive people, but somehow even then it fails to provide me with news about law abiding, upstanding migrants creating thriving communities or anyone but migrants committing sexual crimes.

Negative news gets more views and is thus more popular... more at 11

[ParanoiD84]

Lucky for them he was bad at aiming.

[TwistedSkull]

So pay millions to house them in comfortable prison rooms?

Who said anything about comfortable cells?

[omeomorfismo]

So since on the first 10 pages no one really mentioned it, I'll reiterate, that the shootings happened only after a EIGHTEEN year old girl was found CHOPPED UP in suitcases in those areas, and a Nigerian immigrant was apprehended as a suspect.

This is probably nothing more than retaliation which is being used to push multiculturalist agenda (yet again). And since all EU governments are downplaying the atrocities these individuals are committing as individual cases by deranged savages, someone needs to show the immigrants, that even though they might have support from the government who is safely locked away in their ivory towers, the common man who actually has to interact with them on daily basis does not approve of such behavior. There's state of emergency in France for 2 years now for fuck sake. They even changed their law so that they won't have to call it that and keep the rules it entails in effect. And yet, somehow it's still white supremacists fault that all of this is happening? The immigrants are forming ghettos and are fairly tight knit community. Don't tell me that if they weren't ok with what the 'radicalized individuals' are doing, they couldn't stop them.

it was mentioned multiple times.
anyway for now, the cause of death is overdose (at least, the most probable) not the guy. apparently isnt even the one that sell drug to the girl, but consumed with her. still he hided and chopped the body.

if you can read italian
http://www.ansa.it/marche/notizie/20...49b71d24d.html